HomeMy WebLinkAbout4.19.23 PB Minutes Approved 6 - 7 - 23
1 MEETING MINUTES
2 ORANGE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD
3 APRIL 19 , 2023
4 CONTINUATION OF THE APRIL 5 , 2023 MEETING
5
6 MEMBERS PRESENT : Adam Beeman ( Chair) , Cedar Grove Township Representative ; Lamar Proctor (Vice - Chair) , Cheeks
7 Township Representative ; Melissa Poole , Little River Township Representative ; Beth Bronson , At- Large Representative ;
8 Charity Kirk , At- Large Representative ; Statler Gilfillen , Eno Township Representative ; Whitney Watson , At- Large
9 Representative ; Steve Kaufmann , Bingham Township Representative ; Chris Johnston , Hillsborough Township
10 Representative ; Elizabeth Kalies , Chapel Hill Township Representative ;
11
12 STAFF PRESENT : Cy Stober, Planning & Inspections Director; Patrick Mallett, Deputy Director — Development Services ;
13 Taylor Perschau , Current Planning and Zoning Supervisor; Nish Trivedi , Transportation Services Director; Lauren
14 Coffey , Planning Technician
15
16 OTHERS PRESENT : James Parker, Applicant; Lyle Overcash , Nick Kirkland , Joey Webb , Patrick Byker, Eric Silinish , Will
17 Wirt, Patrick Cummings , Susan Wells , John Cates , John Dempsey , Margo Lakin , Clancy Russell , Jenn Weaver, Susan
18 Swafford , Drake Edwards , Gary Rodgers , Amber Bickford , Raul Herrera , John Cox , Earl Tye , Mary Parkinson , Jennifer
19 Bailey , John Hughes , Margo Lakin , John Dempsey , Margaret Cates , Sandra Brown , Thomas Brown , Emilee Collins ,
20 Jessica King , Carolyn Robinson , Jamie Burgess- Flowers , Carolyn Cadamski , Rhonda Zack , Wanda Richardson , Edwin
21 Cox , Mel Huang , Maryalice Nocera , Charlie Clouse , Reynald Chatelain , Debra Fields , Jenni Edwards , Meg Kelly , Drake
22 Edwards , Dan Bivins , Steve Kirby , Alison Sommerstad , Robert James , William Brodeur, Sally Brodeur, Aaron Kirk , Vicki
23 Hill , Amber Bickford , Aaron Kessler, Karen Sexton , Cheryl Howard , Alyson Miller, Linda Nathanson , Kathleen Harper,
24 Eric Lindblom , Nick Schumacher, Kathy Bivins , Kiersten Fitzgerald , Jeff Powell , Allan Green , Matt McDermott, Meaghun
25 Darab , Neal Fisher, Melissa Fisher, Bonnie Alexander, Linda Johnson , Tracy Schumacher, Jack Niklas , Rachael Price ,
26 Ross Goldbaun , Brandon Welch , Hugo Sequeira , Amy Carabetta , Robert Minton , Ashley Snipes , Daniel Snipes , Scott
27 Comer, Susan Walser, Mark Micol , Jim Hopper, Jay Hopper, Tony Bayless , Delores Bayless , Scott Czechlewski , Hollis
28 Chatelain , Alex Stanford , Rhonda Zack , Crawford Horne , Felicia Horne , Bill Aucoin , Mark Zack , Rachel Hawkins , Allison
29 Nichols , Hank Clapper, Jim West, Donna Clapp , Tiffany Alrefae , Janet Wright- Simpson , Faye Rhode , Kimberly Leary ,
30 Marian Adamson , Bethany Kidd , Ashley Anston , H . Nad Worny , Curtis Kelly , Jason Zoladz , Jeff Reilich , Christine Jackle ,
31 Virginia Rhodes , Ryan Rigabar,
32
33 AGENDA ITEM 1 : CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL
34 Chair Adam Beeman called the meeting to order .
35
36 Chair Adam Beeman gave a short introduction to the schedule of the night' s meeting which is a continuation of the April
37 5 , 2023 meeting .
38
39 Agenda Item 3 : Zoning Atlas Amendment (Conditional District) — To continue review of and make a
40 recommendation to the BOCC on an applicant- initiated zoning atlas amendment to rezone an 84 . 9
41 acre parcel from R- 1 ( Rural Residential ) to MPD- CD ( Master Plan Development Conditional
42 District) .
43
44 Cy Stober, Planning and Inspections Director, gave a short recap about the item then turned the meeting over to the
45 applicant to continue their presentation from Jim Parker,
46
47 Patrick Byker, attorney for the applicant, re- introduced members of the applicant team who will speak about the project .
48
49 John Pelphrey , Orange Tennis Club , spoke about the need for more tennis and pickleball courts in Orange County .
50
51 Patrick Byker submitted to the Planning Board , a petition with approximately 200 signatures gathered by Mr. Pelphrey .
52
53 Patrick Byker spoke about the project and asked the Planning Board to recommend approval .
54
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55 Statler Gilfillen : I have a question about something you just said . . . you said they will put turn lanes in within two years .
56 During that period , if the schools cause a great deal of congestion or traffic , we have a problem .
57
58 Adam Beeman : We need to wait until the end to ask questions .
59
60 Patrick Byker : I can answer that at the end but either way , it will be fixed .
61
62 Chair Adam Beeman read a public charge .
63
64 AGENDA ITEM 2 : PUBLIC CHARGE
65
66 INTRODUCTION TO THE PUBLIC CHARGE
67 The Board of County Commissioners , under the authority of North Carolina General Statute , appoints
68 the Orange County Planning Board ( OCPB) to uphold the written land development law of the County .
69 The general purpose of OCPB is to guide and accomplish coordinated and harmonious development .
70 OCPB shall do so in a manner, which considers the present and future needs of its citizens and
71 businesses through efficient and responsive process that contributes to and promotes the health , safety,
72 and welfare of the overall County . The OCPB will make every effort to uphold a vision of responsive
73 governance and quality public services during our deliberations , decisions , and recommendations .
74
75 PUBLIC CHARGE
76 The Planning Board pledges to the citizens of Orange County its respect . The Board asks its citizens to
77 conduct themselves in a respectful , courteous manner, both with the Board and with fellow citizens . At
78 any time , should any member of the Board or any citizen fail to observe this public charge , the Chair will
79 ask the offending member to leave the meeting until that individual regains personal control . Should
80 decorum fail to be restored , the Chair will recess the meeting until such time that a genuine commitment
81 to this public charge is observed .
82
83 Please be kind to everyone .
84
85 Public Comment
86
87 Mark Zack : Lives in the Lawrence Road community . I have lived here for over 30 years and have seen Lawrence Road
88 become the de facto north/south thoroughfare on that side of Hillsborough . Although you ' ve done a traffic study and
89 developers have proposed funding some improvements , I don 't think that they adequately address the impact on the
90 intersection of Old NC 10 and Lawrence Rd . I ask that after approval , the developer make improvements to that
91 intersection , namely installing a concrete median on Lawrence Rd . to control people making a left turn from Old NC 10
92 onto Lawrence Rd . This is a dangerous movement, those of us who head that way to Lawrence Rd . know that we often
93 have to avoid collisions with people making that turn onto that less than 90 -degree intersection and cutting across our
94 lane of traffic . I ask for you to consider this one simple consideration we have before you give any approval for this
95 project. Thank you for your attention .
96
97 Rachel Hawkins : Lifelong resident of Orange County said that just this week , the superintendent of Orange County
98 Schools called me to say she wants to lock the tennis courts . There are 8 courts at the high school and if they are
99 locked , that would leave only 3 in the area for play . I am a tennis advocate for the community . Orange Tennis Club is
100 great, it has people playing tennis who have never thought about playing tennis . These courts are really nice and haven 't
101 been taken advantage of by people riding skateboards and bicycles , which the superintendent is concerned about. We
102 are at a crossroads , if they lock the courts , we don 't know where we will play on Sundays and after work . We know we
103 can ' t play during the day because people at Orange use those courts . We are county taxpayers , and we should be able
104 to play . We hope to be able to play through Orange Tennis Club which will be on Lawrence Road .
105
106 Jim West : I live off 1801 Washington Drive . I ' ve lived at my property since June of 1996 , 1 bought the place when I was
107 25 years old . It' s the most beautiful place in Orange County if you ask me , just a wonderful community . Whenever
108 something happens to my community I want to make sure I know all the rest associated with the type of development
109 and also any type of safeguards that are applied that we may not be aware of. Whenever I hear about tennis courts ,
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110 baseball fields . . . . I love baseball , I used to grow up watching my third cousin play for the Yankees . I think we need more
111 baseball fields and tennis courts . However, I do have concerns about the noise and I also have concerns about the
112 lights . I just want to make sure that if they are going to have baseball fields and tennis courts that they are going to have
113 proper safeguards , something to deflect the noise , whether it is trees or whatever. I just want to make sure that we are
114 aware that there is a community that is very peaceful and we get along very well together . It is a very diverse community
115 and we want to make sure that anyone that wants to join our community , fits in . Thank you so much .
116
117 Marian Adamson : My family was drawn to Hillsborough by the lovely people and the great programs . We 've bounced
118 around from various programs and now I have a son who does baseball at HYAA and my husband is an assistant coach .
119 1 have another son who does tennis with the Orange Tennis Club . He told me today that the good thing about tennis is
120 that it is a great sport for people who are not tall . It is really happy for me that he has finally found a sport that he is really
121 happy with but we ' ve been working with one of their private coaches and it' s been a struggle to get tennis court time . I
122 took my entire family Monday evening really late because it was the only time we could find available . I know that HYAA
123 is losing some of their fields and we really love that baseball program . On top of that , I have 4 children at the Expedition
124 School , a charter school in Hillsborough that will feed into Triangle West High School if it is able to have a location and
125 we have loved our charter school . The commitment of the people there to our students , the great teaching staff, my kids
126 have really flourished at this charter school . We need options for people of all locations and backgrounds to have places
127 to go to school , places that work really well for their children as this charter school has for me . I just wanted to say that
128 our family would be a huge proponent of this . It would mean that my children would be in the same area instead of
129 having to go to all different locations and driving all over, we would be in one place and that is a beautiful thing to add to
130 the community . I am so glad they are putting in these beautiful neighborhoods in Hillsborough and Orange County but
131 we really do need the schools and the support system and the recreational activities to support these wonderful
132 developments going in . Thank you very much .
133
134 Henry Nadworny : Lawrence Road neighborhood resident since 1998 . 1 am very happy with it . The growth is not
135 something I ' m happy with the planning and positioning of where these projects lie and I think it is stopping the properties
136 more than they accommodate . I think there is plenty of other choices that could be made more wisely . I have not
137 researched available properties , but I believe in the area , there are larger potential positioning . . . . requirements for the
138 project, I am not that familiar with whether they need the water or whether it needs the sewer or not . I ' ve heard different
139 things change as this went on . From the meeting last week to this week , I hear now they are going to pay for the turning
140 lanes . What those turning lanes accommodate , I still don ' t agree with , that that is not going to stop the flow of things
141 because you have so much going into this , not just at school times but weekends and at night and they are going to
142 stagger the drop off. . . I just don ' t see that flowing . With other projects like the 76 townhomes on the other side of me
143 going in , and the studies that were done through Covid to say , we saw this many cars , I don ' t think those figures are
144 correct . I don ' t have the knowledge to tell you that you are wrong with thinking that a turn lane will take care of it . I do see
145 historical homes being attacked that people have purchased in this area knowing the zone is residential and now all of a
146 sudden , we can just try and change that by saying it' s not residential anymore , we are going to put a business in there .
147 What give you the right to say that that' s okay for me and not you and you ' ve changed things that have been in place for
148 years . I see not having water pressure anymore , I see runoff issues , I see water collection flowing into the drinking water
149 , so now we are going to have tennis court runoff, all the runoff on this . . a I heard walking trails , I don 't see walking trails in
150 there , I just see them taking all the trees out . It was a walking trail and park facility and made for everybody to have fun
151 and go play tennis and all , that would be great, but you are stuffing a school on top of it and you are into the watershed
152 and killing the area around it. What about the two historical sites that I don ' t see anybody addressing that they are going
153 to need to lose road frontage . I don ' t know if you are voting on this tonight . . . . I don ' t agree , thank you .
154
155 Amber Bickford : I am a STEM professional , a mother of a 12 -year-old , and a resident of Orange County . As a STEM
156 research professional , with 25 years ' experience in biotechnology , I can assure you that our 21 st Century needs STEM
157 education at the high school level . We need critical thinkers , creative thinkers , problem solvers , and people that work
158 collaboratively . These are skills that are needed to address the many critical challenges of the 21 st century , including
159 climate change , and sustainability, something that is very important to this community , as you well know . Why not here in
160 Orange County where the Lawrence Road project directly addresses the UDO and aligns with the greater community' s
161 ideas ? On April 5th , you heard Joey Webb , West Triangle High School Leader, explain to you the innovative academic
162 programming that he has led at multiple schools . You learned that West Triangle High is committed to the social and
163 emotional well being of the student body and the willingness to collaborate with the broader education community . This
164 is the benefit of charter schools in your community . Steps from here where we sit tonight as a charter school here in
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165 Hillsborough that is actually been recognized by DPI for its academic growth most importantly the greatest academic
166 growth for socio-economically disadvantaged children and will be working with DPI in the Fall to provide this
167 programming which will be a benchmark and cornerstone for all public schools in the state . This is a real example of
168 equity in education and how charter schools ' partner with public schools in the community despite what you may have
169 been told . As I stand here tonight, this is the 16t" anniversary of the Virginia Tech massacre and between April 5 and
170 tonight, you have a room full of parents that want social , emotional programming , access to athletic programming ,
171 organizations , fields , because our kids are at risk . I am an alumni of Virginia Tech , I had 3 family members on the
172 campus that day and quite frankly the violence in our schools and threat to our schools every day has not improved , it' s
173 gotten untenable and uncontrollable . Just since April 5t" , two schools in our area , have either been in lockdown because
174 there ' s a weapon on site or the threat of one . Parents in this community want better, and Orange County can do better.
175 Our kids are hurting , they need a sense of belonging and programs that support their well - being and social and
176 emotional well - being for our community . If you rezone Lawrence Road , this will be available to our community . The
177 fundamental change is not coming from the federal government or the state , its coming from decisions that you have to
178 make tonight, at a local level .
179 Ms . Bickford presented the Board Chair with a petition supporting the project .
180
181 Kathleen Harper: I ' ve lived in Hillsborough since 2008 and my husband and I have 2 children in Orange County schools .
182 1 respectfully request that the planning board vote no on the Lawrence Road rezoning . The proposed development does
183 not align with the county' s comprehensive plan in which land use should be coordinated with other plans including utility
184 and infrastructure and limited water resources should be managed wisely . The town of Hillsborough leadership has told
185 the developer during several meetings during the last year and a half, that it would be difficult to meet the water and
186 sewer requirements for one or more schools at this site . If the rezoning is approved , the Town of Hillsborough , by law,
187 and the NCDA to provide water and sewer to the schools , even if that means denying other water and sewer to other
188 town priorities . If the developer decides to provide the schools with wells and septic , which was mentioned as a
189 possibility earlier this month , will the septic fields take the place of the ball fields ? I do support recreational fields . I want
190 fields for HYAA and more courts for tennis and pickleball players but not this way . Not by forcing the town of Hillsborough
191 to provide water and sewer to schools on the opposite side of the county from where the most growth is predicted , or by
192 sacrificing the ball fields to build a large septic field in Durham ' s Teer Quarry protected water shed . At the end of the day,
193 given these infrastructure concerns , this site is not a good site for schools . Also concerning , the applicant team
194 suggested on April 5t" that West Triangle High School would be well situated to absorb some of the anticipated growth of
195 Orange County Schools . According to their charter application however, West Triangle intends to establish matriculation
196 agreements with the Expedition school and several charters in Durham . If finalized , these agreements would grant
197 priority enrollment to students from these charters . With approximately 40 students matriculating from the Expedition
198 school and the possibility of more than 100 students from Durham charters , few seats may remain for students not
199 already enrolled in a charter. Please ask the applicant to provide an explanation of their current pending and planned
200 articulation agreements as it relates to the school ' s ability to absorb growth in Orange County Schools . The majority of
201 anticipated growth in Orange County Schools is predicted to take place in the Western half of the county, near Mebane .
202 The Lawrence Road parcel is situated between Hillsborough and Durham . This proposal does not benefit the Orange
203 County school district and it does not benefit Orange County at large . Please vote no on the rezoning and please keep
204 this area rural residential .
205
206 Rachael Price : My husband and I own the Rock House which is a historic property at the corner of Business 70 and
207 Lawrence . Tonight, I would love to bring 3 concerns of ours to the board and the developer. First, when my husband and
208 1 moved into our home , we both commented on how dark it is at night and how nice it is to clearly stargaze while being
209 so close to downtown Hillsborough . I believe that this project with all its required lighting , including all those with the
210 athletic fields , will create a tremendous amount of light pollution for the residents in the surrounding neighborhood . In
211 addition , the light pollution will also disrupt migrating birds as this area is on a major migration route . I propose that the
212 board take this into consideration in deciding if this is the right location for this particular project . If you decide to allow
213 the rezoning , then an evening curfew be put on all lighting and after- hours activities . Second , my husband and I both
214 work in Durham and drive Business 70 almost every day to and from work . What I appreciate about Business 70 is that
215 you clearly leave Durham , there is space between the two towns and that you clearly arrive into Hillsborough . I believe
216 that Hillsborough has done an impeccable job maintaining and cultivating its historic charm and this sets it aside from our
217 neighboring cities . I worry that this project will begin the urban sprawl of business that will take away from Hillsborough ' s
218 uniqueness . I would hate for Business 70 to become another 15/501 , a corridor of business that runs Durham right into
219 Chapel Hill . I believe that this project is not only about the rezoning of this particular parcel of land but represents the
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220 direction and future that you , the Planning Board , see for Hillsborough . Finally, while the idea of walking our 6 -year-old
221 across the street to a STEM based high school , sounds idyllic , the reality is that a lottery- based enrollment that serves
222 the entire Triangle makes that unlikely . While I highly advocate for more STEM based education , I would rather see a
223 school in Hillsborough that prioritizes the children in our community , as opposed to the Triangle at large . I ask the board
224 if this particular school proposal is the fit for our community . If there is a need for further educational opportunity in
225 Hillsborough , perhaps you should consider a school that first prioritizes the admittance of Orange County students , then
226 once that need is met , opens enrollment to students from around the Triangle , . . . . . have this meeting about how people
227 would address the traffic situation that would be created not just by the school but also by the athletic fields . They are
228 going to be extremely busy after hours and evenings because they are so popular and bring so much of a need to the
229 area . I don ' t think we can accommodate that with the improvements on the roads . . . .
230
231 Jennifer Bailey : I ' ve been part of the Hillsborough community since 2005 . 1 am speaking in support of the project . Tennis
232 has been a part of my life since I was 8 years old . My parents thought it would be fun for us to learn how to play tennis
233 so we could not only have family support but so that we could meet other people in our community . My family moved
234 every few years and with each new home , one of the first things we would do was seek out the local tennis community .
235 Many years ago , I moved to Hillsborough with my family which included three young children and as usual , I sought out
236 the tennis community for us . What I found was unique among the fourteen places I have called home . There was a
237 tennis community but there were no courts . Being a part of this vibrant tennis community and hearing the vision for
238 creating a club , I embarked on a journey to help make the Orange Tennis Club a reality . Over the years we have played
239 at private courts , school courts and now we have just three public courts . This community deserves better. We deserve a
240 dedicated facility that supports the local community of new players , young players , older players , and families . Orange
241 Tennis Club is a non - profit that offers affordable high quality tennis instruction but it also offers our community something
242 else . It gives us a place to build relationships with other local people of all ages and backgrounds that may have never
243 otherwise crossed paths . So please give Orange Tennis a home .
244
245 John Hughes : I have been in Orange County since 1972 , lived in Cedar Grove since 1974 . 1 empathize with people who
246 are looking at traffic issues and water issues , however I do love to play tennis . I am a founding member of Orange
247 Tennis Club . We started planning in 2006 and became a reality in 2009 . We are a 501 c3 organization . Our original
248 mission was to provide tennis to anyone in Northern Orange County who wanted to play tennis regardless of their ability
249 to pay . We have a sliding scale fee , and we offer scholarships to anyone who wants to play . Of the 200 members that
250 John mentioned , 100 of those are children under the age of 18 , ages 4 - 18 . We have clinics 5 days a week for all ages
251 and abilities , we have summer camps . Prior to Covid , we had 2 community events every year that invited folks from all
252 over, particularly the Fairview community , we provided 300400 rackets , 200 cans of tennis balls to people so they could
253 start playing tennis . We have experienced a lot of growth during Covid . The CDC said that tennis was a safe sport to
254 play so our membership jumped . We are at capacity . Hillsborough Youth Athletic Association is faced with a cap that we
255 will have to impose pretty soon because we can not accept anymore people because there is just no space . So
256 encourage you to support this project for the tennis facilities . I am 74 , 1 figure I have got 15 more good years of tennis
257 and if this one doesn ' t happen , then I hope that you put putting tennis courts in Northern Orange County on your agenda
258 as some part of your planning opportunities .
259
260 Raul Herrera : I am a resident of this beautiful town . I am speaking as a member of the business community and the
261 Hispanic community . Our community lacks recreation facilities , our community needs amenities such as baseball , and
262 tennis courts and recreational facilities . When youth are part of athletics and part of a team , they understand how to be
263 productive citizens as they become adults . Accessible and affordable , athletics keep our youths out of trouble . The
264 proposed facility includes schools that are aimed at providing access to quality education and quality sport centers that
265 we so desperately need . . The area of concern by neighbors has been addressed by the developer. I believe this project
266 will create more equity for our youth and their families who do not have access in close proximity to these services . We
267 live on the corner of Victoria Drive and Orange High School Road , that is less than a mile from Orange High School and
268 Orange Middle School . In the 17 years that I have lived there , I can hardly feel the traffic . Thank you for voting yes to this
269 rezoning .
270
271 Rhonda Zack : Has lived in the Wyngate neighborhood off of Lawrence Road for more than 20 years . I wanted to support
272 this project because I have been on the side of the developers , I ' ve sat in your seats and had Kimley Horne do traffic
273 impact analysis for me before , so I wanted to support it . I looked through the information carefully and I have read the
274 traffic impact analysis with great interest . I was really disappointed because I was stunned that the intersection of Old NC
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275 10 and Lawrence Road was completely ignored in that analysis . It' s a very dangerous intersection currently and they are
276 looking at adding 15 , 000 cars in this general vicinity and are saying that hardly any of them will be coming from the south
277 and that is ridiculous . That says that all the people here who are supporting tennis and the baseball fields , and the STEM
278 schools are not going to be coming from Beckett's Ridge and Waterstone or Joppa Oaks . None of them are going to be
279 coming up Old NC 10 and going up Lawrence Road to the site , that' s ludicrous . It' s a direct route to get there from the
280 south of the site . I don ' t understand how that could be so neglected in the traffic impact analysis and I am really
281 concerned about that intersection . My husband , who spoke earlier, who only has one arm , he lost his arm on Old NC 10 .
282 This is not a conceptual danger for us . This is reality . It' s a dangerous road now and you are going to add a lot of traffic
283 to it . I am here to say, I support baseball fields , I support tennis , I support STEM schools but not on this site , not on this
284 road . It is the wrong place for it . I ask for you to vote no on this .
285
286 Scott Czecklewski : I am CEO of the Hillsborough Chamber of Commerce and I am speaking tonight on behalf of our
287 Board of Directors . The Chamber' s mission is to promote both economic development and quality of life , so we carefully
288 consider all sides of an issue before we take a position . The applicant created the plans for this site based on needs
289 expressed by the public and for the Hillsborough Youth Athletic Association and the Orange Tennis Club . Even more
290 importantly, the applicant studied the established . . . . development ordinance and created a project that fits within the
291 scope of the development deemed appropriate for this site . The applicant then determined and carried out everything
292 required to have the school approved according to state and municipal regulations . This zoning change and proposed
293 uses are consistent with the Orange County Comprehensive Plan . The plan identifies this parcel in a twenty-year
294 transition area which means that the county intended for it to evolve in this manner on this land . As the Chamber Board
295 studied this proposal , it was easy to identify the need for the infrastructure that this rezoning will open the door to build .
296 There is a significant lack of baseball , softball fields and tennis and pickleball courts in the area as you have heard from
297 many people tonight . That' s why this project has such strong support from the Hillsborough Youth Athletic Association
298 and the Orange Tennis Club . Youth participating in HYAA play at 3 fields , one , Collin ' s Field , will no longer be available
299 once the development of that site begins . Local tennis and pickleball players have expressed concerns about the courts
300 in the area . They are limited to just three courts . Tennis players must travel to Durham and Chapel Hill when they play,
301 supporting businesses elsewhere . While there will always be traffic fears with any new development, the developers plan
302 improvements in the intersections and with the construction of turn lanes at both entrances to the school and the
303 school ' s bussing plan will help alleviate those concerns . Something Mayor Weaver said at the last meeting struck me ,
304 she noted that many proposals for this property had been made over the past 15 years , and all had been denied . Our
305 area youth will be served in many positive , life-changing ways for decades to come by these proposed charter schools
306 and athletic fields . It' s time that a project that meets the guidelines of the UDO and the comprehensive plan is approved .
307 The Chamber Board of Directors hopes the plan will be approved .
308
309 Steve Kirby : I am the boy' s and girl ' s high school tennis coach at Eno River Academy and a parent of kids who like to
310 play tennis . I am speaking in favor of the proposed rezoning request because the kids need more accessible tennis
311 courts , as we ' ve heard . Our tennis teams are young having just started playing in the fall if 2021 but interest in them has
312 been growing . We don ' t have enough places to play tennis . We have difficulty renting a space to have practices and to
313 play our matches . The only ones in the area are rented by a middle school in Durham because they lack courts as well .
314 Our athletic director has been able to rent courts at Moreene Road Park but we are only able to do so before school gets
315 out . It is interesting to note that when we have home tennis matches , the kids miss their entire last class , which makes it
316 difficult for us to get parental approval and the kids end up leaving school earlier for home matches than they do for
317 away matches . Matches regularly go for two and a half to three hours so we bump up against the 6 o ' clock deadline ,
318 even with the three o ' clock start . Three weeks ago , when we had a tennis match it bumped right up against it and we
319 had to beg the tennis leagues to let us finish playing our high school tennis matches . They kicked us off and we had to
320 beg them to let us play a match point. The earlier afternoon matches aren ' t accessible to us . Some schools such as
321 Orange High , Cedar Ridge and Graham , won 't play us at our courts because it means their kids get out of school too
322 early, so we have to play at their courts . The problem with that is the distance of travel . It' s a tough call for parents to
323 make to say twenty minutes each direction is what we will have to travel to practices every day and for matches . With
324 other sports , it' s right there at school . It also impacts our ability to have a thriving middle school program because they
325 involve courts too . So , we are facing competition not just from other Durham schools but from our own middle schools
326 and we can ' t get middle schools to have tennis programs because they don ' t have a place to put them . Tennis is a great
327 sport; we love it and we want a place to play and that is why you should vote for this proposal .
328
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329 Hollis Chatelain : I support schools , I support athletic fields , I support all of these different sports , but I don ' t support them
330 being built here . One of the things that nobody has really mentioned is that the surrounding houses , all around this
331 enormous field , are still on the older wells . On Lawrence Road , there are still people who are still on the older, sixty-foot
332 wells . When we don ' t get a whole lot of water, those well have a risk of drying up . This field could take a lot of the water
333 from all of these houses that are on these older wells . A lot of these people are lower income people , who is going to pay
334 for new wells . Nobody seems to be considering that . This is really a big problem . I am just really surprised that nobody
335 has said anything about that . One of the things that they said and the next thing I would like to mention is the traffic . One
336 of the things that they have said is that there were 4 , 500 cars that went on Lawrence Rd . in February of 2021 . This was
337 during lockdown . I live on Lawrence Rd . there are so many more cars when we were not in Covid and now . I do not think
338 it is realistic for one of the only roads that go North/South through Hillsborough . If there were some sort of emergency at
339 the school or somewhere else around there , they could not get emergency vehicles in there . They could not get them to
340 the hospital which is south of there . I am against a facility like this in this spot and I ask that you vote no .
341
342 John Dempsey : The owner has already brought a request for rezoning for this parcel to the town of Hillsborough where it
343 was denied . It was found by the Mayor and the Town Board in keeping with Hillsborough ' s future land use plans and
344 would not be in the long -term interest of Hillsborough ' s businesses and residents . Their decision was informed by a
345 variety of Hillsborough ' s town agencies . Being turned down by Hillsborough , the developer has come to Orange County
346 asking for conditional district rezoning for the same plan . You should be aware that if Orange County permits this
347 rezoning , then it will be triggering a recent North Carolina State Law that requires municipalities to provide water and
348 sewer services to charter schools if they have the capacity to do so . The Town of Hillsborough has been formally put on
349 notice by the developer to reserve water and sewer capacity for this development . If you rezone this parcel , then make
350 no doubt about it, at that point , neither Orange County nor the Town of Hillsborough , will have any say in the distribution
351 of Hillsborough ' s water and sewer resources to this non -contiguous parcel . They will be forced to do so by state law . As
352 one town board member put it, " this will rip Hillsborough ' s Comprehensive Sustainability Plan to shreds . " It should also
353 be noted that if Orange County decides to permit this rezoning request, that it will be breaking the WASMPBA planning
354 and boundary agreement signed by Hillsborough , Chapel Hill , Carrboro , and Orange County . That agreement
355 signatories to growth management . . . . resolve and preclude conflicts about future service areas and also provide
356 predictable planning and financing . Rezoning will also result in tax and service fee hikes for Hillsborough businesses and
357 residences over time . Without bringing any new tax revenue to the town regardless of who pays for the initial extension
358 of services , it is alarming to me that these costs to Hillsborough are not mentioned or addressed by the applicant or by
359 the Orange County Planning Department . At the last planning board meeting on April 5 , Hillsborough ' s mayor and a town
360 board representative , signed up for 3 minutes to address this board on these and other concerning issues with this
361 proposal . Three minutes , for the jurisdiction that would be held responsible for servicing this project, paying for the
362 consequences , and the jurisdiction that should be making these decisions . Please , listen to our town representatives and
363 vote unanimously to not recommend this rezoning proposal to the Orange County Board of Commissioners .
364
365 Margo Lakin : I ' m for schools and ball fields and tennis courts and pickleball and skateboards and walking , what I ' m
366 against is this spot zoning that will disenfranchise Hillsborough voters and compromise our water and sewer capacity .
367 We have been told that rezoning decisions are based on land use , not on traffic patterns , not on who will occupy the
368 development . This rezoning doesn ' t promote Hillsborough ' s future land use plan . It will rip the town ' s comprehensive
369 sustainability plan to shreds . It doesn ' t even support Orange County' s Comprehensive Land Use Plan that serves as a
370 guide to county growth and development through 2030 . The rezoning will not efficiently use existing capacity, it will
371 create light, noise , and air pollution . I haven ' t heard one mention of . . . ratings for buildings . It will destroy federally
372 recognized habitat for five protected species , it will threaten two watersheds , and compound the stress on the town ' s
373 finite water and sewer capacity . There are eight planning principals in the 2030 plan that have been the foundation for
374 development, this proposal meets none of them . We heard that conditional zoning only allows for this project and no
375 variations but according to the planning department presentation , at the April 4 Board of County Commissioners
376 meeting , where another conditional rezoning proposal was voted on , we were told that conditional zoning does allow for
377 negotiation between applicant and staff or appointed board , or the elected body of Orange County . If rezoned , this
378 proposal could change and Hillsborough would not be part of those closed door decisions . We haven ' t heard from the K-
379 8 charter school proposal because it doesn ' t exist . At the neighborhood information meeting , the developer failed to
380 mention that he is also the landowner. He told the room that the sports fields were place holder ideas only . Two weeks
381 ago , we heard for the first time in a public forum , that well and septic can now support this project and Hillsborough
382 Water and Sewer isn ' t needed . So why was there an annexation request to Hillsborough in the first place ? If rezoning is
383 approved , are we to believe that the new state law forcing towns to provide water and sewer to charter schools won ' t be
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384 invoked by the developer? Hillsborough government officials elected as a legislative body in establishing town policy in
385 law, denied the original annexation . That should have been the end of it but here we are . I ask you to listen and honor
386 the decisions of those who we voted for to decide what is best for our town . Please deny this rezoning application .
387
388 Susan Swafford : I ' m a board member for West Triangle High School , as well as a local parent . I have lived here since
389 1994 . 1 have concerns with this planning process . In the last meeting , Mr. Stokes specifically discussed state statutes
390 that prevent considering traffic, utilities and school type in deciding on a zoning application . This makes allowing the
391 mayor to read her letter aloud concerning water and sewage , problematic . The content of the letter regarding utilities , is
392 also questionable . Two things to consider: our school is asking for 6 , 000 gallons of water daily or . 15 % of current city
393 water usage . WTHS will pay to hook up the utilities costing and estimated one million dollars during construction , and
394 pay around $30 , 000 annually for water service . How is it that the city can not handle that minute amount of water? The
395 mayor is trying to attach a $42 million price tag to hooking up sewer for the school? What I found most concerning was
396 the mayor' s use of the word "equity . " I believe the mayor is presenting a red herring fallacy . She wants us to pay
397 attention to a sewer problem , however where is the data supporting her claim ? I believe the mayor and others actually
398 oppose charter schools . Tonight I present a real matter of equity driven by actual data . These numbers come from the
399 state board of education recording system used for all public schools across the state . For black students in Orange
400 County last year, there is a 43 %/33 %/40 % achievement gap in Math , English and Reading , respectively . Meaning that
401 the average test scores for black students is 43/33/40 % below the average score for white students . Just 5 % of black
402 students in the county attempted an AP class . For Hispanic students , there is a 34/37/23 % achievement gap across
403 Math , English and Reading . In Orange County, in high poverty schools , 20 % of teachers are new to teaching . This
404 compares to only 3 % of new teachers in low poverty schools . Our school leader, Joey Webb , has a track record of
405 closing large achievement gaps . Our board chair, Alex Quigley , works tirelessly , with success to close the achievement
406 gap each year in the Triangle . They are both committed to this work . It is not lip service about equity as a political guise,
407 it is grit and determination , with innovative and nimble thinking . Please don ' t fall for the red herring trick . The UDO
408 suggests you approve this rezoning . I urge you to see what the county will be getting from it; much needed recreational
409 capacity for our kids and families , and a new school that will soften enrollment and budget challenges and will actually
410 stand for equity by bringing a fresh model to closing the achievement gap .
411
412 Gary Rodgers : I am a board member at West Triangle High School and a board member at Research Triangle High
413 School . That is the replicating public charter school that West Triangle is being based on . I ' ve been part of the non - profit
414 Research Triangle school for a number of years so I know first hand what it means to the students in the region . The one
415 thing that Research Triangle has that does not reflect their innovation skills is the facilities . Ten years ago we opened up
416 in an old abandoned shopping center that we had to retrofit to put classrooms in . Today we are in a center that has been
417 converted into a school . There are things it doesn ' t have , important things , it doesn ' t have a gym , doesn ' t have sports
418 fields , it has awkward eating spaces , doesn ' t have an auditorium for big meetings . We haven ' t heard enough tonight
419 about why this land is important to West Triangle High School and their families . We have the opportunity to build a real
420 school from the ground up to impact Orange County, Hillsborough , with a gym , fields , large cafeteria , auditorium , all the
421 common amenities that most public traditional schools have . Denying it puts the school in a predicament of making
422 significant facility sacrifices to our students who are out there . . . any activities we are offering . I want you to think about
423 that, we have the opportunity to bring four baseball fields or softball fields , tennis courts , two soccer fields , parks , ponds ,
424 and a school with a gym , a true community center. It needs to be noted that the Orange County taxpayers will not be
425 paying for any building through any bonds or local funds . The school will pay for the building through a private loan like a
426 mortgage like we have done at Research Triangle High School very successfully . When you consider the state of the
427 facilities here in the district and the need to renovate all of them , this is an opportunity to save the district a huge amount
428 of money with a new facility and not costing them a penny . So our students who attend there don ' t need to sacrifice the
429 opportunity to play sports or eat in traditional cafeterias . Thank you for considering a very important point that has been
430 overlooked tonight and please know that you will hear from our other board members that we will make sure that we are
431 great stewards of this space and that we make sure that this is a successful school for the community . Please
432 recommend approval of this zoning application .
433
434 Earl Tye : I ' m here tonight to ask for your recommendation for approval of the zoning request that is before you . I believe
435 everything in this proposed plan is a much needed and community enhancing asset . I want to speak specifically about
436 the ball fields tonight . I had the privilege of serving as a coach and as a member of the HYAA board for about ten years
437 in the early 2000 ' s . I learned a lot in that experience and much of what I enjoyed about it then is very much true today .
438 HYAA is a long -standing institution , it is community built . I rolled off the board in 2009 and I still see people all over this
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439 community that I met through our mutual association through HYAA . It is a 100 % volunteer run organization . People
440 volunteer to do things they enjoy doing and , in this case , they volunteer because they want to serve and mentor kids .
441 Through that , these kids learn some valuable life lessons ; sportsmanship , teamwork , how to handle winning and losing ,
442 you can ' t put a price on those kinds of things . HYAAers are also a valuable asset in this community just because of the
443 number of kids it serves year- round , Spring , Summer, Fall , boys and girls , a wide range of ages . I think it is relevant to
444 ask the question what would it cost the county or the town to try to provide that kind of recreational experience for that
445 number of kids , year in and year out? I certainly don ' t know the answer, but I can guess that it' s a pretty big number. As
446 a member of the board 20 years ago , I had conversations from time to time with officials of the town and county
447 government, we knew at that point that Collins field days were numbered and that is so true today . I understand that
448 there are design engineering plans underway at that site right now . When we had that conversation 20 years ago , it is a
449 lot like it is today . We would say to the town and the county , We are not asking you to pay for it, not asking you to build it ,
450 we are saying that we have got great support in this community from the business community , from parents , and from
451 developers and time to time as the opportunity arises for us to secure a long -term location for our fields , we just need
452 you to work with us . That' s the request here tonight . I won ' t dismiss some of the concerns that have been raised tonight,
453 1 don ' t necessarily agree with them , but I do believe that wise and reasonable people are coming from a place of good
454 faith in addressing these concerns and this could be a win -win for this community .
455
456 Mary Parker : I have been a resident of Orange County since 1981 , 1 was a public-school teacher for 35 years and I have
457 seen the importance of athletics for all people . I am an avid tennis player and unfortunately when I want to play tennis , 1
458 have to drive all the way to Durham to do so because we can not have the amount of fields that are needed to have
459 USTA tennis and that is something that I thoroughly enjoy . I also love to go out to Orange Tennis and see all the young
460 people who are taking the sport up . There are not many sports that you can still play and have a good time at my age .
461 Tennis is one of those as well as pickleball . This is a great opportunity for us to have some good change and change
462 does come . This is a great opportunity to advance everyone' s lives by having athletic endeavors to get together as a
463 community and offer ways that are good health incentives . I hope that you will consider this and accept this as a great
464 way to improve Orange County .
465
466 MOTION BY Lamar Proctor to allow anyone who signed up to speak on April 5th , and their name was not called , be
467 allowed to speak if their name is on the list . Seconded by Statler Gilfillen
468 MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY
469
470 Matt McDermott : The home in which my wife and I have lived in for 24 years , borders Lawrence Road and is within
471 1 , 000 feet of the proposed development . My comments tonight go to the subject of equity , specifically with respect to the
472 well water demands necessary to support all facets of the proposed development . In other words , all recreational spaces
473 but not the charter schools which as the applicant has proposed , will be serviced by public water and sewer. I have not
474 seen , nor am I aware of any daily well water consumption projections . Why is this important you may ask? Because the
475 daily lives of those of us neighboring the proposed development site , depends dearly on our wells remaining viable in
476 terms of providing ongoing potable water. Further, no ' hydrogeological study has been conducted in an attempt to
477 determine if there are any present or foreseeable concerns with respect to supporting the well water demands , not only
478 at the proposed development site but our neighboring ones as well . My strong suspicion is that none of this has been
479 investigated as any state statutes , ordinances or otherwise do not demand this of any conditional rezoning applicant .
480 Here is where the equity issue makes itself abundantly apparent, we have no safety net . We currently have no access to
481 publicly provided water unlike the applicant who ultimately will , and God forbid if any of our wells run dry as a result of a
482 significant increase in well water demands , should this proposed development be accrued . Some of the older wells ,
483 those which are shallow in nature , in the neighboring area are already encountering periodic flow and water quality
484 problems/perc challenges . Arguably , we are being asked to simply accept the increased probability of a well failure as a
485 part of this proposed development . For many in this area , who simply do not have the means , the cost of addressing a
486 failed well would be financially catastrophic . That ask of us , patently , is unfair. It speaks to my initial equity comment . We
487 have an online petition against the rezoning , can I provide that to you ?
488
489 Beth Bronson : We have an online public email address that you can send it to .
490
491 Drake Edwards : I have lived here for 10 years , I am a physician at Duke . I have a 2-year-old son , my wife and I drive on
492 70A and stop at that 4 way stop at Lawrence Road . I wanted to talk about a story from 8 years ago . I was visiting my
493 brother and sister- in - law up in DC , my sister- in - law is an Army doctor and was stationed at Walter Reed at the time . My
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494 brother- in - law, like most brother in laws when you go visit them , had a project for me , which was to go into an empty
495 building and paint every wall in the place and move way too much furniture for an entire weekend . Full disclosure , my
496 brother- in - law is Joey Webb , he is going to be the director of West . . . . Charter School . I saw him take that empty building
497 and turn it into a place that gave opportunities to kids that just didn ' t have opportunities to learn and enrich their lives and
498 1 saw him to get kids to take the AP exams that they would have never had access to . He sent this young girl to a
499 Harvard computer science course and put her on a pathway to a life that she would have never had without that school . 1
500 saw him work with his community to have a symbiotic relationship where both the neighborhood and school could thrive
501 together. I think that this community having Joey Webb in it and starting this school is like winning the lottery . I spend a
502 lot of my time dedicating my life to serving this community , my sister- in - law has put her life in danger to serve our military
503 and worked so hard and I know that Joey Webb shares that same passion for his community . Thank you for coming here
504 a second night in a row and you have missed two bedtimes to be here , and I know a lot of parents have been in the
505 same situation and I don ' t get a lot of bedtimes with my son , so thank you for taking the time .
506
507 Rob Minton : I live off of Lawrence Road in the Wyngate community and one thing I would like to add is that we had over
508 700 petitions against this project . In addition to that, the neighborhood I live in and have enjoyed all these years , is quiet .
509 This will be completely ripped apart with this project . They are talking about numbers anywhere from 800- 1200 students .
510 The traffic congestion will be inconceivable , I don 't think you can really plan these things . The comments made about the
511 stress on wells is well taken . Unfortunately , as mentioned previously, I don 't hear any hydrogeologic study that has been
512 done at all . I also hear a lot of athletic enthusiasts and I am one . I love tennis and baseball as well . I just think it doesn ' t
513 need to be in this area . Better sites would encompass at least 4 lanes , that would be more reasonable . This , with 2
514 lanes , just doesn ' t make sense . With that, I appreciate the time that you have given me to say my piece but it is a big fat
515 no for me .
516
517 Linda Johnson : This is a personal issue for me , I live on Lawrence Road . I have lived here since 2008 . 1 moved to this
518 community because I loved my house in Durham , but I could hear the highway cars . I jumped at an opportunity to buy a
519 house here when I found one . To be in a rural , quiet . . . . . I am kind of a city girl but I loved it out here . Lawrence Road has
520 already gotten way busier. Two of my neighbors have both been hit on Lawrence Road pulling into their own driveway .
521 We have asked the police to park on Lawrence Road because in the mornings they could catch them speeding easily . It
522 is a safety concern for me . I feel like I can ' t come up against lawyers and studies and this and that . I am a preschool
523 teacher so when I heard someone speaking the other night about the charter school and I heard all the things that he
524 said , I understand social , emotional and STEM , It' s what I do , it is what I do every single day . I agree and I love all that . 1
525 was so excited , and I thought " I would love to work for him , I want to give him my numberl He wants to do all the things
526 that I do . " What I don ' t understand is why is it this parcel of land ? They are trying to make it all rosy and fit an elephant
527 into a show box , when Orange County is huge . It seems like you would want to maintain the small -town city . We have a
528 Sportsplex probably not even a mile down the road from what they are proposing . They are talking about walking paths
529 and tennis and baseball and softball and pickleball and K- 8 and High School in this little , tiny area . I would think you
530 would want somewhere further out . One of my concerns is that all of this seems too fast for me , too much of a sense of
531 urgency and I want to know why, why the sense of urgency? I just saw the signs go up less than a month ago on my
532 road . That was when I found out about all this . I don 't have time to read through all these studies to figure out if they are
533 correct or not . I am busy teaching my kids here in the community .
534
535 Jessica King : Lives on US 70A East . I can see the field from my back porch . In the mornings I go out and drink my coffee
536 and I can hear the birds in the trees and see the deer walk through . That is not going 10 be any longer. My concern is
537 that as I look at the map , my house is right at the parking lot . I don ' t know of many parking lots that do not have lights .
538 know we need baseball fields , I know we need tennis courts , I am not doubting that . But in this area , it is really small .
539 With us being on a well , we are worried that our wells are going to go dry . With the parking lot, it is a hard surface , when
540 it rains , where is that rain going to go ? Is it going to be a problem for me now and will we have issues that we have never
541 had before? Our neighborhood is quiet and that is the way we would like to keep it .
542
543 Charlie Clouse- I have been a resident of Hillsborough for 22 years . I have been involved in a lot of situations helping out
544 community members that are in this room . I ' ve volunteered for organizations and I understand what the developer is
545 trying to do but I think he is trying to back door us here . He said in the meeting on April 5 , 1 believe , that we are good for
546 well water and septic and we know that is not the case . The state clearly brings it to order that if he gets approved , the
547 Town of Hillsborough will have to give them water and sewage . Mayor Weaver made a good case and it has been voted
548 down many times and I just want you to take that into consideration . I think her words were heartfelt from the community .
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549 1 think you all need to take a look at yourself and see if this is really something that we need in our area . I understand
550 that there are a lot of athletic people . I played football at West Virginia University and I understand the meaning of a
551 team but I don ' t think this site is fit for us to develop what we are looking for here . The traffic is a concern for us and a lot
552 of us are on well water . I know the schools are going to get city water because the state requires that . The ball fields and
553 the other athletic courts that will be put in place , it is going to be well water for us . If we have well water then that means
554 they are going to drill down deeper into the wells . They are going to go hundreds of feet deeper than anyone else . I am
555 in the vegetation industry and we know that if the wells go down deeper, that means the ones that have lesser are going
556 to get the muddy and unclear water at the top . Please take that into consideration when you vote on this proposal .
557
558 Margaret Cates : I live on Lawrence Road and have been there since the 1960 ' s so I have probably been there longer
559 than most of these people have . There are also people who have been in the community longer than I have , they just
560 can ' t make it out this late at night . Where I ' m at is where the tennis courts are going . That is going to mean a lot of light
561 and I like my dark time at night . It is just as dark as it can be , you can see the stars , you can see the space lab when it
562 goes across . I am like the other woman and like to sit out there and have my morning coffee and hear the birds , squirrels
563 and all that . Also , the traffic on Lawrence Road is terrible , if you try to come out on Laney Drive which parallels 85 , you
564 can not see because of the bridge so if you want to go left, you have to pull out almost into traffic to see across that
565 ridge . Also at the end of Orange Road and Old NC 10 , there have been in the last year, at least 3 cars that ran across
566 Old NC 10 into my sister' s property . To me , it is not a good place . Myself, would miss that pretty green field . Sometimes
567 it is deer corn or whatever, but right now it is a pretty green field with yellow wildflowers blooming and it is a beautiful
568 place .
569
570 Adam Beeman : That concludes the public comment section .
571
572 Cy Stober shared procedural slides, a tentative schedule and four available actions with the Board.
573
574 Statler Gilfillen : I think you answered one of my questions , that it agrees with the comprehensive plan for Orange
575 County?
576
577 Cy Stober : That is our staff analysis that can be found in the staff report in your packet, yes .
578
579 Statler Gilfillen : I would like to ask the counterpart, the Mayor of Hillsborough , if this is in agreement with the
580 comprehensive plan for Hillsborough .
581
582 Charity Kirk : Can we address the Mayor of Hillsborough at this time ?
583
584 Cy Stober : As a member of the public it would be unorthodox . . . .
585
586 Statler Gilfillen : Okay , if I am not allowed to ask the question then I withdraw it . She was a speaker last week . . .
587
588 Cy Stober: We did consult the town ' s current adopted comprehensive plan , they have a drafted comprehensive
589 sustainability plan that is not yet adopted . The existing comprehensive plan that the town has is reflected in COCA and
590 that is what staff consulted in its analysis and recommendation to the board .
591
592 Statler Gilfillen : So your findings of your board are that this proposal would be consistent with both the County and
593 Hillsborough ' s comprehensive plans?
594
595 Charity Kirk : Current, but one of the points that the mayor made was that they have a draft comprehensive plan that is
596 not public . . . . .
597
598 Cy Stober : It is set for public hearing tomorrow evening and public comment on Friday .
599 We can only consider adopted plans .
600
601 Statler Gilfillen : I will assume that the answer to my question is that as the current law stands , this proposal meets the
602 comprehensive plans ?
603
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604 Cy Stober: That is my analysis , yes .
605 .
606 Statler Gilfillen : The question I have next would be the one that I inappropriately started to ask earlier of the lawyer, you
607 mentioned that within 2 years they would correct a traffic issue , if in the first 3 months you build a development on this
608 property that causes severe traffic problems because you have not finished what you planned in 2 years , what plans do
609 you have?
610
611 Patrick Byker: I would have to take issue with that characterization . The point is that the first year' s student enrollment
612 would be 150 students , that is fairly minor increase in traffic . The timing is important because we need to survey, design ,
613 go through NCDOT review, and obtain approval before we can even let a contractor build those turn lanes . That is a time
614 consuming and expensive undertaking and that is why it is not really possible to have done on day one in conjunction
615 with the school being built . However, if we discover going through this process that there is a driveway constraint or
616 another constraint that does not allow the development team to build the turn lane themselves , we will just write a check
617 to Orange County NCDOT for them to build a turn lane since they have . . . . authority and we would write that check
618 before the school opens .
619
620 Statler Gilfillen : I am the Eno River Township representative . I am probably the closest person to this site . I use
621 Lawrence Road on a ongoing basis . I have a number of specific questions . You or Jim Parker may be able to answer
622 these . A question was raised tonight about specific plans on the corner of NC10 and Lawrence Road . I am not sure what
623 plans you have but I am aware that that is already a difficult intersection . I believe there is a historic house with a marble
624 stone wall around it at the intersection that may get impacted historically . Do you have any plans or comments regarding
625 that intersection ?
626
627 Patrick Byker: I would like to bring up our team just so that we make sure we answer your question as thoroughly as we
628 can . I will say on the record , that since this a conditional use zoning atlas amendment, pursuant to NC GS 160D 73B ,
629 you are allowed to offer conditions . I will say on the record tonight, subject to NCDOT approval , we will install a median
630 on Lawrence Road at the Old NC 10 intersection . Now to answer your questions as to how we got to that point, Lyle , will
631 you give a background on the study area please? This is Lyle Overcash our traffic engineer who specializes in school
632 traffic .
633
634 Lyle Overcash : A lot of good comments from the neighbors , Old NC10 and Lawrence Road was brought up early in the
635 scoping process , the county asked for that intersection to be included in the study area . The development overall was
636 about 4 , 000 vehicles a day . NCDOT felt like with such a minor volume it was highly unlikely that they would make any
637 kind of improvements there . The intersection is on the HSIE list so it has an accident history . A gentleman earlier in the
638 meeting made a good suggestion about putting a median on NC10 , to prevent folks from cutting the corner. We haven 't
639 studied that . Someone else had mentioned that folks are running through the intersection , maybe not stopping . It sounds
640 like if you added a median on Lawrence Road , just looking at a street view while the meeting was going on , I don ' t see a
641 lot of striping that is noticeable, so I think through adding some additional striping , a stop bar, possibly adding that
642 median , and what that median would do is allow you to put up another stop sign . So that would give you two stop signs
643 as you approach that intersection so maybe that would help prevent some people from running through the intersection .
644 Again , we didn ' t study that intersection in the TIA, those are just some suggestions that came to us .
645
646 Statler Gilfillen : Have you done any studies comparing accident rates with traffic on NC10/Lawrence Rd compared to
647 comparable areas ?
648
649 Lyle Overcash : No , we didn ' t study NC10 .
650
651 Statler Gilfillen : One of the people here in the audience has raised that point that several accidents have happened on
652 Lawrence Road . Being someone that uses it, I am concerned about that .
653
654 Lyle Overcash : The posted speed limit on Lawrence Rd . is 45 mph . . . . when we would build this development, we would
655 petition the DOT to make that area a school zone through that area so we would try to reduce the speed limit during
656 school hours to 35 mph so that would give it at least a window particularly during the AM peak hour to try to reduce the
657 speeds through that area .
658
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659 Statler Gilfillen : At River Park Elementary at about 8 o ' clock in the morning , going in and out of that school , there could
660 be a 15 minute delay and there have actually been people who have been hit . A custodian was once hit by a car. What
661 precautions for entering and leaving this school are you taking , not to slow traffic? People coming are not expecting that
662 delay and they are going to be very upset . . .
663
664 Lyle Overcash : As we discussed at the last meeting , the most important thing is to make sure that the stacking , the cars
665 are stacking on the campus and not backed out onto Lawrence Rd . or US70 . That is the number one thing . Again , we
666 have about a mile of stacking distance on the campus itself and Joey is committed to making the management plan work
667 and keep that stacking on campus , that is the number one issue . The second biggest safety concern would be the left
668 turn lanes that are going to be provided at the school driveways at Lawrence Rd . and US70 . There ' s no left turn lanes on
669 NC10 and I ' m sure there are some accidents associated with that . The center left turn lane is the most critical thing when
670 it comes to safety .
671
672 Beth Bronson : You spoke about 15 % of school traffic coming from Nc10 to Lawrence Rd . then 15 % coming from NC86 ,
673 15 % coming from the west side of Hillsborough . . . . having the lottery system you will have a lot of students coming from
674 neighboring counties , I know that there are plans for a bus , how much traffic might end up getting routed to NC10
675 because there is so much congestion in the Hillsborough city limits . I think that is something to consider and I do
676 understand the neighbor' s concern about the traffic and the commuters ' concerns about the traffic . Also that this is not a
677 24 hour business or a 1600 student school facility . Did the TIA incorporate the recreational . . . . ?
678
679 Lyle Overcash : It did .
680
681 Beth Bronson : I fully support the public nature of it, I just don ' t know , is that based on how many members , semi- public
682 members there will be at the recreational fields through HYAA specifically?
683
684 Jim Parker : It was based on the acreage of the recreational space and the tennis facility was calculated separately
685 based on other data . Going back to your original question , it is difficult to ascertain where all the different students will be
686 coming from but the good thing about this site and how it is designed , students can come from all different directions . It' s
687 not all just coming in on one road at one time . There are multiple ways to get into the site , so when you take the 4 , 000
688 trips per day that we estimated , that didn ' t take into consideration traffic . We are going to have 30- 50 % bussing , then
689 those volumes are conservative and so when you take 4 , 000 and divide by 4 it is 1 , 000 in each direction so those loads
690 are not that severe . I understand the neighbor' s concerns and we are trying to do the best we can with the site .
691
692 Beth Bronson : At the same time I don ' t understand how conditionally we could make you , as the applicant responsible
693 for something that already needed to be , in the public' s view, already needed to be addressed but I do believe that the
694 safety of adding school children into the mix and creating that type of traffic is paramount .
695
696 Lyle Overcash : We appreciate that point, that is why we wanted to step forward with the turn lanes at US70 and
697 Lawrence Rd . That was based on conversation with DOT and it' s near the . . . at the back end of your staff package page
698 377 or 378 . Highlights that intersection as a recommended .
699
700 Beth Bronson : Would you be interested in . Not would you be interested in . The condition of revisiting this traffic impact
701 given the recreational field as well as the school matriculation of the school being full capacity in three years I believe ?
702
703 Patrick Byker : No at least four .
704
705 Beth Bronson : Four years . Okay , so at five years you would be considered to be at full capacity for just the high school ,
706 or the high school and the lower school ?
707
708 Patrick Byker : I ' m not sure . . . of the lower school is , that' s to be determined .
709
710 Beth Bronson : So , the lower school is not considered in any of this .
711
712 Patrick Byker: Yes , it' s factored in the traffic .
713
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714 Beth Bronson : OK so something in like five revisiting this issue , revisiting with the traffic impact analysis might be
715 something that might be proven for preparing opening a lower school ? As it . . to the planning director, if there ' s a
716 mechanism that you can do that, I am not aware of. . As the conditional district, yeah ?
717
718 Patrick Byker: I ' d have to talk about that with the planning director. Though I think we ' re certainly willing to evaluate
719 where things are , say if the property moved along , keep it lined up as is stated . We may have increased buses by that
720 time as well , above and beyond is how its projected . Thank you .
721
722 Statler Gilfillen : Could you mitigate how the individuals through the audience erase the question about the wells? Yes ,
723 the developer, we ' ve been talking about if Hillsborough will or will not be providing service . Under state law, I believe , its
724 recommended , you can 't get a boating permit, you can 't reach the environmental districts . You can 't start to build , so
725 whatever you architect designs won ' t matter. However, if you put in wells on this site , and three years goes by and all the
726 sudden , half of those . . . neighbors and all the wells dry up , what protections do they have?
727
728 Patrick Byker: That' s a good question to have . It is hypotheticals , but here ' s the point, there are certainly time honor case
729 to do so , where if there is something that happens where your use of your property detrimentally affects another one ,
730 they have a cause of action in Orange County court. As I said that, I think it' s important to recognize that we are talking
731 about a 90 -acre , so my understanding is there would not be , correct me if I ' m wrong , 90 - acre lots single family homes
732 there without having to pursue this reclaiming order and if those are all with wells that would consume just using
733 presidential averages 35 , 000 gallons a day from the ---- zone . That' s there without any public hearing . Our usage would
734 be a fraction of that, somewhere between a quarter and a third at most . And so , if you look at these as the concerns ,
735 look at what the — would allotted , far greater usage of well water and the gallons per day would be astronomically higher
736 than the proposal that proposed today .
737
738 Statler Gilfillen : I want to thank you because I ' ve been sitting here trying to listen to what both sides have been saying ,
739 and this is a question I . . from the audience asking , it' s a hard question but I believe that it deserves a fair answer- that' s
740 why I ask it .
741
742 Patrick Byker: I already answered it, and it' s a time honor principal of real property .
743
744 Cy Stober : Just to confirm the existing zone it is our one role , as a . . . a one acre lot development as an estimate , it is
745 safe to assume under Orange County subdivision criteria and by the needs of public road dedication roughly a third of
746 the property would be dedicated for open space and right away as a recreation area so that would leave approximately
747 between 50 and 60 acres , about 54 acres , for homes and 1 acre lots .
748
749 Statler Gilfillen : Thank you , I appreciate the clarification . It still would be a tough greater usage if it were a development
750 simply, right? Those two questions kind of interrelate, several people have raised questions and if I were an adjacent
751 neighbor to the sight, and you come in with tasteful diamonds and all the night lighting , that could be a serious service at
752 10 o ' clock at night or 11 o ' clock at night, with lights . Teenagers going on and I would happen to like that if I happened to
753 live next to it . Cedar ridge road is not enough . Now, there is also a case that people that have talked about the adverse
754 effect to the neighbors but also the wildlife . Somebody this evening raised a question that this may affect endangered
755 animal . Is there any review of the endangered species adjunct? Does this have any affect?
756
757 Jim Parker : It' s in your staff report, but there is no impact . So that was addressed in the staff report and my
758 understanding is the baseball and softball is not lit, is that correct? Yes , there is no lighting for baseball and softball , on
759 the plan before this evening .
760
761 Statler Gilfillen : Okay so what provisions for the neighbors for the town square are you taking ? All lighting would be
762 controlled by the VBO , comprehensive plan .
763
764 Patrick Byker: There are standards that obviously this project would follow but I do want to state for the record that a
765 large area of the baseball and softball field will not have any lights .
766
767 Statler Gilfillen : One other question and please correct me if I am not permitted here to ask this question , this is
768 neighborhood you ' re talking about building a high school right there because it' s a charter school and it requires a certain
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769 lottery , can exemption be made for the neighbors who within a certain walking distance- their children , somebody who
770 has a job who wants to go to this school , they' ll have a first priority?
771
772 Patrick Byker : I believe that would conflict with state law, that' s not my area of expertise . To my knowledge it' s a blind
773 lottery . That' s my understanding .
774
775 Statler Gilfillen : A lot of persons that could be something that could be very favorable to many of the neighbors , and
776 might be positive I just don ' t know either .
777
778 Melissa Poole : As a parent with children in charter school , I mean lotteries are done with deputy sheriffs , it is blind it is
779 anonymous and it is a draw .
780
781 Patrick Byker : That' s from Murphy to Manteo .
782
783 Statler Gilfillen : That would affect anybody on our team that their children would want to go to their school , would have to
784 go to the same lottery?
785
786 Patrick Byker: Yes , absolutely , that' s right .
787
788 Beth Bronson : You mentioned that there was going to be 150 students in the first year . Now that we have figured out it
789 would only be the high school , the lower school is pending . However the conditional , master plan development includes
790 a lower school . So the construction would move forward on that school regardless?
791
792 Patrick Byker : No , that would be somewhere down the road .
793
794 Beth Bronson : Okay , but you would have to leave , I ' m just wanting to make sure I understand the master plan . You will
795 not be coming back to advisory board or permission of any change?
796
797 Patrick Byker: Unless we change what was shown on the plan today , that is correct .
798
799 Beth Bronson : But not if you don ' t build it?
800
801 Patrick Byker: Correct .
802
803 Beth Bronson : And then , last presentation you said that the schools would take up one baseball field and one soccer
804 field , was there any allocation of the schools to the recreational field ?
805
806 Patrick Byker: I don 't believe so , I ' m sorry Joey couldn ' t be here tonight .
807
808 Beth Bronson : Okay , thank you for that clarification . Are you representing HYAA as well as the?
809
810 Patrick Byker: I do not represent HYAA, that is the presidential development team . They brought forward the proposal
811 that incorporates the utility to HYAA .
812
813 Beth Bronson : If you ' re not representing the school then that question does not matter. And then , there is no body from
814 the school here today?
815
816 Patrick Byker: We have board members .
817
818 Beth Bronson : I wanted to know from the board members if you can speak to it- were there any other sites reviewed for
819 this high school that you know of? What was that process like ? And how did you end up here on this one?
820
821 Charter School Board Member: There were a few that were looked at this is such an ideal site for this because of the
822 adjacent fields as well as the parks and recs , this was definitely the main focus .
823
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824 Beth Bronson : How about how long did the search go on for?
825
826 Board Member: It was about a year from when we got the charter from the state .
827
828 Beth Bronson : Okay and then do you guys have a representation , like a lawyer.
829
830 Board Member: We do , not here tonight .
831
832 Beth Bronson : I think those are all the questions I have for you tonight .
833
834 Chris Johnston : At the April 5 meeting , Jim Parker mentioned , "We do not need Hillsborough ' s water ' and I just want to
835 understand what that means . Correct me if I ' m wrong , they can 't deny Hillsborough water if they have a school on site , or
836 is that an option ? I just wanted to make sure I understand state law on that particular item .
837
838 Patrick Byker: State law as I understand it, requires an allocation to be made for the school based on what is projected .
839 That' s what the Town of Hillsborough ' s attorney . . . . this is in the staff report as well . . . reservation of an allocation does not,
840 if I recall , according to the letter, is not a commitment to serve .
841
842 Chris Johnston : Just so I understand , you said that you don ' t need Hillsborough water or sewer, because that seems to
843 be the main contention from the Town of Hillsborough , is that they are required to provide water and sewer, so if you are
844 saying that that is not a requirement, is that actually accurate or is that . . . . .
845
846 Patrick Byker : Let me back up just a bit . . . the water and wastewater are really zoning issues , those are issues that we
847 deal with as part of the engineering of the site and what we would evaluate , if we are fortunate enough for this to be
848 approved by the Board of County Commissioners , there is a . . . . map in your staff report that evaluates exactly how it
849 should be done with well and septic .
850
851 Charity Kirk : I ' m curious about a direct answer to the question . I don 't feel like you are being direct.
852
853 Chris Johnston : What I am hearing you say is that the site doesn ' t require water or sewer from Hillsborough given the
854 needs that you mentioned , by right, the area could support up to 35 , 000 . . . .
855
856 Jim Parker: The site has sufficient septic soils to support beyond 12 , 000 gallons a day , so the school does not need
857 public water/sewer but, it is a long term maintenance issue with septic and community wells . So , it is a primary desire to
858 have public water/sewer because it is not a long -term maintenance issue for the school . If we proceed with the rezoning ,
859 it is important to know that it is not necessary to have water/sewer from the Town of Hillsborough although we would
860 seek it and proceed with that . . . .
861
862 Chris Johnston : You say seek it but really, it' s required by law in the State of North Carolina to provide it . . .
863
864 Jim Parker: It is , if we ask for it and desire it to go that direction . The purpose of the statement is in the decision . I don ' t
865 want the fact that you think or the mayor says that we need water/sewer they are not going to allow it . I don ' t want that to
866 change your decision . The point is , the schools can be supported by the soils that are on site , and by the water that
867 would be provided by wells as well as the ball fields and the tennis court . The recreational component may be 1 , 000
868 gallons a day . The school would be 12 , 000 gallons a day .
869
870 Chris Johnston : This comes back to the point of contention that I understand which is the providing of water and sewer. I
871 don ' t know 160D very well as far as requiring the Town to provide the water and sewer, my question is , is that a
872 stipulation where you are saying your site can provide water and sewer without needing the town ' s?
873
874 Jim Parker: Yes , that is exactly what I ' m saying .
875
876 Chris Johnston : Do you have the ability to waive that then in regards to if you were requesting ?
877
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878 Patrick Byker : I have worked with this team for 10 or 15 years and we have done these charter schools on well and
879 septic in rural communities across central North Carolina so this is not new to us . We can pursue well and septic or if
880 Hillsborough refuses to serve it . . . .
881
882 Chris Johnston : Is that even an option ?
883
884 Jim Parker : We will either do it with well and septic or we will do it with public water/sewer . It' s not really a zoning
885 question .
886
887 Charity Kirk : Cy , can we specify that this property cannot use City of Hillsborough Water?
888
889 Cy Stober: You cannot . This is a land use matter and in addition to considering land , there is this additional limitation on
890 your considerations with regard to related traffic . . . . usually that would be something you could consider. You can
891 consider the land use and its impacts to the surrounding area . I would add , when it comes to well and septic , should it be
892 pursued , any septic drain fields that would then be significantly added on to or removed , would require a public hearing .
893
894 Charity Kirk : But we can ' t make an amendment . . .
895
896 Cy Stober : No , you cannot .
897
898 Charity Kirk : So it' s a moot point .
899
900 Cy Stober: Correct .
901
902 Steve Kaufmann : If you were to use septic on that site , would it infringe on any of the ballfields in terms of needing that
903 property for septic?
904
905 Jim Parker: You have your package of soil analysis of the whole site and I think there is 8 acres that has been stipulated
906 that the school could be supported by . The ballfields on the school property , could be used as a septic innovative system
907 to absorb that . On each parcel if you note there are areas indicated for . . . . septic fields , so each parcel could have a
908 shared septic field from the entire development . There is more than enough acreage there for that .
909
910 Charity Kirk : Again , we can ' t make any judgement on the septic system , right? Or say that we want something in that
911 regard . . . .
912
913 Cy Stober : Hillsborough Utilities cannot be the basis for a vote .
914
915 Charity Kirk : I understand that it can ' t be the basis for a vote but can we stipulate that they . . . .
916
917 Cy Stober : No . . .
918
919 Charity Kirk : Okay , so we can 't do anything to say they have to use septic or they don ' t have to use septic . We can ' t say
920 that they need to have stormwater retention ponds or improved water . . .
921
922 Cy Stober: So we have evaluated all that and they have met our standards , if there are additional reasonable
923 considerations related to the land use , that could be something to negotiate a condition on but my point was simply that
924 the health standards of the county reviews have been reviewed as provided by the applicant and they have been
925 reviewed on site plans as well as . . . . the materials that are in your packet, so that potential shared system was evaluated
926 by staff and the health department .
927
928 Charity Kirk : But if the school wants city water, the school gets city water?
929
930 Cy Stober : That would be a determination between the Town and the school .
931
932 Overlapping conversations
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933
934 Cy Stober: We have a statute that we have acknowledged in your packet, the school buildings would be required to have
935 waste disposal and water, to get a certificate of compliance . They have a state law that requires an allocation of water
936 and sewer service for schools but the county would not be directly involved in the permitting or regulation . We would not
937 issue a CNC for the buildings , and we could not sign off on the zoning approval for the building construction until we
938 were sure that the water disposal could be served by those buildings .
939
940 Charity Kirk : We work with the Town of Hillsborough . . .
941
942 Beth Bronson : I would want to address the Town of Hillsborough to at least understand them better.
943
944 Cy Stober: We are not a regulatory body when it comes to water or sewer for the Town of Hillsborough . We are when it
945 comes to well and septic .
946
947 Steve Kaufmann : So this evening I heard a lot of concern from the neighbors about congestion , lights, well water for
948 themselves , but also a lot of enthusiasm from people who want to play tennis and softball , this is great and I ' m hearing a
949 lot of "this is going to be a win -win situation " but it didn 't feel like a win -win situation tonight . It felt like us against them all
950 night . How can we make this a win-win situation is my question to you ? The reason I am asking is that I have heard that
951 phrase in tennis a number of times , "this is a win -win situation " so I like those situations so go ahead .
952
953 Patrick Byker: I think you have to look at what can be done on this property as a right without this board reviewing it and
954 what is on the table today that has been proposed by our team . So we could build several dozen homes and it would be
955 X number of homes that would consume far more well water than the proposal that is on the table tonight and we could
956 actually do zero for traffic improvements . The proposals on the table today are to build the turn lanes at US70 and
957 Lawrence Rd . or write a check for $400 , 000 so that NCDOT can build the turn lanes which are needed today and they
958 have probably been needed for a long time . We ' ve already committed on the record tonight to do safety improvements
959 subject to NCDOT approval at NC10 and Lawrence Rd . We need to get back to what the community needs . . . . . put that
960 together with Collins Field and it is not a question of if but of when those baseball fields will no longer be available for
961 children to play baseball . Where are they going to go? If not here , where ? I am not aware of any other options . Is there a
962 win -win out there? I ' m afraid there probably is not . You have to stack up what can be built on the 90 acres that is before
963 you tonight with no public hearings no traffic improvements , far more well water being consumed , versus these
964 improvements that are significant improvements both in terms of recreation and traffic flow . That' s how I look at it . You
965 have to weigh which proposal is in the best interests of the people of Orange County .
966
967 Whitney Watson : I want to , follow up on a couple of water questions , I noted in one of the reports that there was a
968 concern about water supply for fire safety, sprinklers , standpipes , hydrants . Could you talk about how that would be met?
969 If you had to use wells ?
970
971 Jim Parker: You use wells you have onsite , a storage tank much like a ground tank . It would be a storage tank that would
972 hold fire suppressant water. It would be filled by well , it would be serviced by a pump that would provide the pressure
973 and the flow capacity to flood the sprinkler system in the school and that would be the fire suppressant for the high
974 school and the same thing for the lower school .
975
976 Whitney Watson : So would there be two separate tanks ?
977
978 Jim Parker: Yes , they are on your plan .
979
980 Whitney Watson : So if the developer should pursue sewer and water from the Town of Hillsborough would there be any
981 possibility of installing hydrants along that route ?
982
983 Jim Parker: That line would be extended along Jefferson from the southwest corner of the subdivision . It will be a 12 inch
984 line and yes there could be fire hydrants along that line . It has the capacity and the volume to do that.
985
986 Whitney Watson : Cy, if there are not hydrants currently, in those neighborhoods , can that be a condition that we could
987 attach to this , the installation of hydrants . . .
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988
989 Jim Parker : It is a condition that we would accept if the Town of Hillsborough would allow it .
990
991 Cy Stober: I think that condition is acceptable , recommend that hydrants be provided along water lines that meet town
992 standards with town approval , I think it is an acceptable condition .
993
994 Whitney Watson : If public utilities are extended from Hillsborough , could you talk about the disruption the neighborhoods
995 would incur as trenching and installation work occurs ?
996
997 Jim Parker : It is typical construction , a water line might take 2- 3 weeks barring weather, it is a 124ch water line , 4 foot
998 deep , and it would proceed rather quickly . The sewer line on 70 Business would take longer it would run up the South
999 side of the highway , it would stay within the right of way , negotiating some driveways , mailboxes and things like that . It is
1000 a deeper line , it would require a little longer time , it might be a month and a half- 2 months , barring weather . There is a
1001 lot of traffic on 70 so it would take longer to install it .
1002
1003 Whitney Watson : I have a question about the timeline for construction of the athletic fields . I see that there is a 4 - 5 year
1004 timeline for construction of the schools , a similar timeline is in the packet for the athletic fields , is that correct .
1005
1006 Jim Parker: I don ' t recall any timelines for the fields themselves . We are rezoning these properties . They will become 3
1007 or 4 properties . It is one property now, it will become 3 or 4 parcels . One for each school , one for the ball fields , tennis
1008 courts , we are . . . . access to these parcels and we are getting them rezoned which is step one in being able to develop
1009 those parcels as you have seen on your conceptual layout . The supporters for HYAA and the tennis supporters , it will be
1010 up to them to invest and make this happen . We are laying this out for them in order to further their dream . It will require
loll fundraising , it will require working , them getting their plan together to make this a reality . They can ' t raise money, make
1012 investment, without a piece of land that everybody knows where they are going . I hope that answered your question .
1013
1014 Whitney Watson : It sort of does . Those fields could potentially lay fallow for as much as 10 years while the entities are
1015 seeking to raise money .
1016
1017 Jim Parker : They could stay wooded for years , that is correct.
1018
1019 Patrick Byker : But the use can ' t change .
1020
1021 Whitney Watson : So the school owned athletic fields , 2 soccer fields , they are multi use and could be for lacrosse or
1022 similar sports ? Those would be built at the same pace with the school ?
1023
1024 Jim Parker: Yes , that is the high school property .
1025
1026 Whitney Watson : So , the soccer fields , would those be lit for after dark use since they are not the public areas ?
1027
1028 Jim Parker: Those are not intended to be lit. The only thing that could possibly be lit could be the tennis courts because
1029 typically there is a lot of tennis played in the evenings . Of course we would have to comply with the comprehensive plan ,
1030 the UDO , and your guidelines for lighting , staying on site and there has to be sufficient lighting in the parking lot . All
1031 those things can be controlled with shielding and angles and not over lighting .
1032
1033 Whitney Watson : What about parking lots , I know that was mumbled in the background . The parking lots around the
1034 athletic facilities and the schools , would they have lighting at night?
1035
1036 Patrick Byker: It' s a UDO requirement .
1037
1038 Whitney Watson : And that would fall under the same requirements as control ?
1039
1040 Patrick Byker: Yes sir.
1041
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1042 Whitney Watson : I heard and saw some references to the historic asset on the corner of business 70 and Lawrence
1043 Road . But I was surprised to see in the packet that it is not listed as a historic asset that needed to be considered for
1044 development. Did I misread that letter?
1045
1046 Cy Stober : Yes Mr. Watson , it' s on a property across Lawrence Road , so it' s not on the property itself. It was considered
1047 as part of the traffic impact analysis , but it' s not included in the site .
1048
1049 Statler Gilfillen : Is that something that comes under the purview of the historic review board ?
1050
1051 Cy Stober : Yes it does .
1052
1053 Statler Gilfillen : Did Peter Sandbeck make any comments about it?
1054
1055 Cy Stober: He did , and felt that our landscaping requirements would offer buffering requirements . . .
1056
1057 Whitney Watson : So in the consideration of the staff analysis , one of the things we are asked to consider is whether the
1058 COCAs next residential neighborhood definition supports this use , so I ' d like to hear some more about if that really is a
1059 walkable/bikeable from the surrounding residential areas to the sites particularly the athletic sites . And , does that mean
1060 there will be sidewalks put in place if there are not existing bike lanes as well ?
1061
1062 Cy Stober: So probably no , not on the public roads , there is a sidewalk provided on the private road network , internal to
1063 the site , but no because these are DOT maintained roads and not connected to a public road network . The DOT made
1064 the determination that the complete streets policy is inapplicable because they would not connect to a larger network .
1065 We did require that the internal site may be walkable , and we had a discussion with DOT about the need for offsite
1066 walkability and safety , and they stuck to their current interpretation of their streets policy .
1067
1068 Whitney Watson : I guess technically it meets the definition of being walkable for residential units , dwelling units . . .
1069
1070 Cy Stober: It' s arguable that the existing development is not walkable , the proposed development was walkable , as the
1071 regulatory agencies would allow, the county requested sidewalks negotiated with the applicant they were provided and
1072 DOT disallowed them .
1073
1074 Whitney Watson : One final question ; I noticed in the packet the page about superfund sites . There are three inactive
1075 ones within a mile of this location , what' s the plan to continue to monitor those and to see if there is any impact and see
1076 if the site has to draw well water for schools as well as recreation ?
1077
1078 Cy Stober: Superfund sites are regulated and monitored by the state and not by the county . I do not have that
1079 information at this time , I would have to get back to you .
1080
1081 Lamar Proctor: So , there is an indoor facility proposed , is that correct?
1082
1083 Patrick Byker: For?
1084
1085 Lamar Proctor: Tennis , I believe .
1086
1087 Patrick Byker: In the long run , yes .
1088
1089 Lamar Proctor: So the parcel would be subdivided into three parcels , is that correct?
1090
1091 Jim Parker : Four if you count both schools would have their own parcel .
1092
1093 Lamar Proctor: Two schools : baseball and tennis . So the school ' s , baseball , tennis , what is the fourth ?
1094
1095 Jim Parker: Each school has a parcel .
1096
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1097 Lamar Proctor: In the packet , there is reference to Tryon 3 Arden Circle . Do you know what that' s about? Page 225 .
1098 What' s the relationship between C4 and the site plan ?
1099
1100 Jim Parker : This was the initial routing of the public sewer that the town of Hillsborough wanted to see the proposed
1101 routing of the public sewer and we had two alternatives to the routing . The initial one was through Habitat for Humanity' s
1102 project , and it would piggyback off that sewer system that they would install and it would punch through to Colonial
1103 Heights . Then , we submitted the one I described earlier, about going up US 70 . So , you ' ve got two options , we prefer the
1104 US 70 route , at this point, and that' s the primary one that is submitted in this packet .
1105
1106 Lamar Proctor: That' s fine . What about water?
1107
1108 Jim Parker: Water would come down Jefferson , there is a water line that crosses 185 at the southwest corner of the
1109 Colonial Heights subdivision the town put in several years ago . It' s already there at the roadway at Jefferson and it would
1110 be extended up Jefferson and cross Lawrence Road to the site and that is a 12 - inch line .
1111
1112 Lamar Proctor : So the indoor facility would not be on the school property?
1113
1114 Jim Parker: Correct . That indoor facility could be tennis courts , it could be basketball , it could be volleyball courts , it' s all
1115 in that building . That' s why it' s called the recreational building .
1116
1117 Lamar Proctor: The separate parcels are going to be contingent upon the nonprofits , raising the money and building
1118 them ?
1119
1120 Jim Parker : Correct, or anyone who wants to build them .
1121
1122 Lamar Proctor: So the developer is not building those .
1123
1124 Jim Parker : Correct .
1125
1126 Lamar Proctor : I know that land was cleared and the vicinity of Bushy Cook and West Ten Road , well over 40 acres that
1127 were cleared for HYAA ballfields . Do either of you know the status of that?
1128
1129 Jim Parker : My understanding is that' s no longer an option .
1130
1131 Lamar Proctor : So the conditional zoning that is before us is two schools , 1400 students , is that correct?
1132
1133 Jim Parker: That' s correct .
1134
1135 Lamar Proctor: I assume , and one of the board members talked about this , that there would be a cafeteria , a gym ,
1136 showers . . .
1137
1138 Jim Parker : No showers , and cafeteria is a misnomer, they do not have a kitchen , they do not cook food , but the
1139 cafeteria is where they all eat . They have supplemental lunches that are brought in , they have lunch programs , and they
1140 bring their own lunches from home .
1141
1142 Lamar Proctor : On page 246 , you should be able to put in here how much water and sewer will be consumed , since you
1143 know there will be 1400 students .
1144
1145 Jim Parker : The reason it is written that way is because we don ' t have the full charter, which would only be accepted by
1146 the town . If the charter existed and was asked by the charter, right now the charter ask is 6 thousand gallons and that is
1147 what' s been reserved . It' s going to change if another charter comes along for the k- 8 , and then that request will go to the
1148 town as well . So , it could be 6 thousand gallons — which is the high school — or it could be up to 12 thousand , if both are
1149 combined . It' s about 10 gallons per student, and that' s based on state regulations and historical data for charter schools .
1150
1151 Lamar Proctor : So , at full build out, it will release at least 14 thousand gallons a day .
Approved & T23
1152
1153 Jim Parker: That is all together; teachers , staff, students .
1154
1155 Lamar Proctor: So the town said they could only give you 6 thousand .
1156
1157 Patrick Byker: There must be an improved charter. We ' re not entitled to ask until there is a charter approved for the k- &
1158
1159 Lamar Proctor: But, what we are approving is two schools . We have to assume that you are going to get the charters
1160 and that they are going to be fully built out and that you are going to have 1400 students .
1161
1162 Patrick Byker: It could be a private school , for instance . Correct me if I ' m wrong director, in the UDO there is no
1163 distinction between private schools and charter schools or public schools
1164
1165 Cy Stober: So , similar to our discussion about the retail store at White Cross last month , you cannot make a decision
1166 based upon the tenants . So yes , there is no distinction between schools , it' s a school .
1167
1168 Lamar Proctor: For our purposes , a school is a school is a school . I did also want to clarify in the packet, page 267 , it
1169 mentions an endangered species , a proposed endangered species , the tri -colored bat . Your packet said it anticipates it
1170 will go on the endangered species list, prior to construction . So , you ' ll have to deal with that issue , that' s correct, right?
1171
1172 Patrick Byker: Absolutely . As of today, what happens in the future is to be determined .
1173
1174 Lamar Proctor: I just wanted to clarify, because it seems like it' s going to happen .
1175
1176 Patrick Byker: This is something that our team has had to deal with on numerous sites across the Piedmont area of
1177 North Carolina .
1178
1179 Lamar Proctor: It's a minor point, I just wanted to clarify that . I think Mr. Watson asked about the town ' s concern with
1180 insufficient flow . There was also concern about a mixed sewer/septic system .
1181
1182 Jim Parker: The insufficient flow will be fixed with the addition of water tanks if necessary . I don 't really know what the
1183 concern about mixed sewer/septic means . You have many lots across the street that have a combination of public water
1184 and conventional septic systems on their lots so , it is not uncommon to have water service and septic system . I don ' t
1185 know what that comment really means .
1186
1187 Lamar Proctor: Hillsborough would be legally obligated to provide water and sewer and then you would pursue that
1188 because that is your right under North Carolina law .
1189
1190 Jim Parker: I want to make sure that it is understood by the board , if Hillsborough provides water and sewer, the cost of
1191 providing that and all of the water and sewer lines would not be borne by the town .
1192
1193 Charity Kirk : I am concerned about Hillsborough not wanting this project . Have you addressed any of their concerns
1194 since they unanimously said no to the project and since we last met 2 weeks ago?
1195
1196 Patrick Byker: We evaluated how to build the project with well and septic in order to move forward without needing town
1197 utilities which I assume would address their concerns .
1198
1199 Charity Kirk : But you are not telling them that you don ' t want their water if you are going to use the state law to get their
1200 water it sounds like . So that doesn ' t sound like you have addressed their concerns . . .
1201
1202 Patrick Byker: I don 't mean to speak for the Town of Hillsborough ' s attorney but there is a letter in the packet that
1203 states . . . . so we are operating today on the premise that as of 10 : 01 April 19 , we may well have to proceed using well and
1204 septic . . .
1205
1206 Charity Kirk : But that is only if Hillsborough doesn ' t have the water.
Approved . 6 - 7 - 23
1207
1208 Patrick Byker : Well , they have the water . . . A' s just if they will make it available to us .
1209
1210 Charity Kirk : I am confused by that but I am going to let it go .
1211
1212 Jim Parker : Can I make a comment?
1213
1214 Charity Kirk : Yes , please .
1215
1216 Jim Parker : You made a comment about the unanimous vote , it was not unanimous , it was 3 -2 vote to not annex and the
1217 request was to be annexed and go through the town ' s process or to allow out of town connection and pay out of town
1218 rates which are about twice the rates that are paid by in town residents and the vote was 3- 2 .
1219
1220 Charity Kirk : Okay , thank you for that clarification . So the recreational facilities , when this is parceled out, who is going to
1221 own the properties with the recreational facilities on them ?
1222
1223 Patrick Byker: We will wait until HYAA or Orange Tennis says they are ready to close , so it' s up to the nonprofits to
1224 decide .
1225
1226 Charity Kirk : Then they are going to be responsible for maintaining it?
1227
1228 Patrick Byker: Absolutely .
1229
1230 Overlapping conversation
1231
1232 Cy Stober : Our UDO requires for all regulated subdivisions , property owners associations , maintenance and stormwater
1233 facilities , landscaping . . . . so we would require that to be recorded with likely the platted road as a non -exempt activity on
1234 land and for that to be recorded we would need that POA or property owner' s association and their maintenance
1235 responsibility for the entire property recorded and on file so we would have an entity to process enforcement actions for
1236 any violations of our ordinance .
1237
1238 Charity Kirk : So if the fields become derelict after they are built and not maintained 20 years down the line it would be . . .
1239
1240 Cy Stober: So if it fails to meet our . . . standards , I would suggest landscaping , road maintenance , stormwater
1241 maintenance , buffers , etc . Lighting would also be within our purview to enforce .
1242
1243 Charity Kirk : It sounds like a lot of the recreational facilities in Hillsborough are becoming private and blocked off. Is the
1244 plan for these recreational facilities to be public or are they going to be locked too?
1245
1246 Patrick Byker: They are open to folks that want to use them . There are no fences .
1247
1248 Charity Kirk : Do we know if there is going to be a fence or not?
1249
1250 Patrick Byker: There is no gates or fencing shown on the plan . That would be a significant change . We would have to
1251 come back to this board if we said time out, we want to fence everything off. We would have to come back for your
1252 recommendation or the county commissioner' s approval to put up fences and gates .
1253
1254 Charity Kirk : Can we address sustainability issues and water saving measures and green building concepts ?
1255
1256 Cy Stober : No . They are not in our ordinance , for what it' s worth , we are in coordination with the climate . . . specialist with
1257 the asset management team of the county as well as with the . . . team to better incentivize those types of architecture . . .
1258
1259 Charity Kirk : But we can ' t stipulate grey water usage . . .
1260
Approved &T23
1261 Cy Stober: At this time it is not in our ordinance and if it is not in the ordinance in the comprehensive plan , that is our
1262 purview to regulate .
1263
1264 Charity Kirk : This is zoned mixed residential , and you ' ve highlighted small developments that provide only supportive
1265 nonresidential land uses in an info arrangement serving more than 50 dwelling units and a walkable manner may also be
1266 considered . What are the 50 dwelling units that are walkable?
1267
1268 Cy Stober: Again , as I mentioned before , we have addressed more than 50 units in a 1 , 00046ot radius for notification so
1269 that addresses that requirement . We requested that sidewalks be placed upon the public road network and the DOT said
1270 no . So , we' ve gone to the limit that we have to try to realize this as a walkable community and the regulatory agency at
1271 the DOT will not allow it to become a walkable community .
1272
1273 Chris Johnston : Is the failure of that in our consideration or is that based on the site plan . . .
1274
1275 Cy Stober: Staff analysis is that the application is consistent with the COCA as described on the slide . If you disagree ,
1276 you respectfully disagree . My analysis , staff analysis , is that the allocation is consistent with this description and the
1277 central Orange coordinator for a mixed residential neighborhood .
1278
1279 Charity Kirk : Did you have any discussion with Hillsborough before bringing this to us , to address their concerns ? Or
1280 because it' s already in the COCA and that was the law, we can ' t address their . . . for their plans and desires .
1281
1282 Cy Stober: I think that there is correspondence from staff, Tom King , Brian Green , and their stormwater manager in your
1283 packet. We are required to provide a courtesy review by COCA and we did that . The plans were revised through the plan
1284 review element. There are some outstanding comments with regard to water and sewer but the stormwater comments
1285 and many of the planning comments were addressed through that process and that can be found in your packet . So
1286 these were provided to the Town of Hillsborough . With regard to their comprehensive plan of consistency, staff did not
1287 mention any consistency concerns .
1288
1289 Charity Kirk : What is the likelihood that this will be annexed into Hillsborough ?
1290
1291 Cy Stober: Annexation in North Carolina now is almost exclusively voluntary . So , it would have to be voluntary from the
1292 property owners . The town would have to consent to that annexation request .
1293
1294 Lamar Proctor : So it will become a non -contiguous part of Hillsborough if they hook up to the water and sewer?
1295
1296 Cy Stober: They would be out of town , they would not be a satellite incorporated area , no it would not be in the town
1297 limits . It would stay in Orange County and pay out of town rates for water and sewer pending utility expansion .
1298
1299 Lamar Proctor: I ' m just confused because I know that there is voluntary annexation agreements , so my experience is
1300 with noncontiguous parcels and that became part of Mebane and it was voluntary . . . .
1301
1302 Cy Stober : Hillsborough historically has not had the policy that the city of Mebane has that they require a petition for
1303 annexation with a utility connection request . Mebane does require that by policy . I believe Hillsborough either just
1304 recently adopted a similar policy or is in the process of incorporating that into their standards . But they have not had that
1305 requirement .
1306
1307 Melissa Poole : Is HYAA represented here? Or tennis ? Understanding the resident' s concerns regarding lighting and
1308 such and the fact that there are not going to be fences . Generally speaking , how long do you anticipate nightly for the
1309 lights to be on ?
1310
1311 Tennis representative : I don ' t have an answer to that . I don ' t know what the UDO statute is , I know that we would be
1312 compliant with that . Typically tennis court lights in other cities and towns go off at either 9 or 10 pm and I anticipate ours
1313 to be at a similar time because night time is night time . The intention is to have directional lighting that points down on
1314 the courts . There are LED lights and if you ' ve ever seen the public courts in Mebane , those lights point directly down on
1315 the court and they do a really good job of not spreading . They are not pointed out straight ahead so they aren ' t going to
Approved & T23
1316 be in someone ' s window, they will be pointed straight down onto the courts directionally . That is something that tennis
1317 players prefer too by the way .
1318
1319 HYAA representative : Without lights , you end when the sun goes down . In the fall it' s about 7 : 15 and in the spring it' s
1320 around 8 o ' clock . Our games all start at 6 o ' clock .
1321
1322 Adam Beeman : I am just going to go ahead and assume that you guys will both agree that you are not going to ask
1323 Hillsborough for water and sewer. And I am going to go ahead and talk about water and sewer . I read this septic report
1324 from your soil scientist and he' s shown where it is suitable and not suitable . Then I take your drawing and overlay it and
1325 your buildings and pavements sit on top of all your good sites . Anything that you leave with the exception of the tennis
1326 courts , they are in the bad to not so great septic areas . The last sentence if the soil scientist report was " There appears
1327 to be ample soils and drain field needs for 1 , 200 students a day school , however once a preliminary site design is
1328 completed , additional site and soil investigation should be conducted to determine the system particulars . " Like I said , if
1329 you lay your site plan on top of this , your buildings cover the majority of your good , suitable septic spaces . I just don ' t
1330 understand .
1331
1332 Jim Parker : Those sites are conventional septic so there would be innovative septic systems that would be absorptions in
1333 fields , or sprayed or there ' s a lot of ways that are done beyond the conventional septic soils .
1334
1335 Adam Beeman : If you put in 55 houses , the health department would determine half of them have septic issues and they
1336 probably wouldn ' t be put there anyway or there would be restrictions on bedroom size and that' s that . I just want to be
1337 clear because I see septic issues . I don ' t know why you didn ' t go back to the soil scientist after you got a design and go
1338 back through your site plan and what he did and say yes , everything is still acceptable and suitable or no , we need to
1339 shift some things around because to me it looks like you are sitting on all your good space with pavement and buildings .
1340
1341 Jim Parker: The soccer fields could become the septic areas for the school . That is true , and I said that earlier through
1342 the innovative design .
1343
1344 Adam Beeman : Nobody on your team has approached the environmental health department for a consultation ? I am just
1345 curious to know if you have actually consulted with environmental health .
1346
1347 Jim Parker : Other than what Cy indicated as far as them reviewing the soils and everything else associated with that .
1348
1349 Adam Beeman : The scientist said " Even though I find suitable places , the regulating authority may find . . . . Regardless of
1350 what happens between you guys and Hillsborough , if we are going down the septic and well path , I just want to know
1351 that you are going to have suitable space for your schools but I see nothing saying here ' s the space for your fields and
1352 here is the space for the tennis courts .
1353
1354 Jim Parker: You ' re right, the school is the biggest user .
1355
1356 Adam Beeman : I was just trying to ascertain if it would be good to go forward and ask the soil scientist to look at the site
1357 plans and say you ' re good or hey you guys need to shift some things around , this is not going to work . If we move
1358 forward tonight and approve your plan , your next steps through the development process is going to the health
1359 department and getting your permits and all that . If we let you go forward and you spend more money making allocations
1360 and the health department says "eh you don ' t qualify" . . .
1361
1362 Jim Parker: That' s our risk .
1363
1364 Adam Beeman : I am simply asking in my mind why wouldn ' t you step back and have them give you a
1365 preliminary . . . . come out and say " yep , you ' re right, we agree with the soil scientist report . Everything looks like it should
1366 be moving forward . " I ' m just trying to prevent you from , . I A would assuage me to say that someone has looked at the
1367 septic to say " yes , this is going to be acceptable " I have 11 acres and I only perked for 3 bedrooms . It' s difficult, I get it
1368 and . . . .
1369
Approved & T23
1370 Jim Parker: I ' ve done a lot of subdivisions with septics and this has got extremely good soil for our town , like you are
1371 saying , the primary goal here is water/sewer from the Town of Hillsborough . That is our primary desire . We know we
1372 could do this with an innovative system like we have other schools . . .
1373
1374 Adam Beeman : What' s the plan for irrigation? You ' re going to have fields and plantings . . .
1375
1376 Jim Parker: Drip irrigation on the fields and in the plantings .
1377
1378 Adam Beeman : You are just not watering the baseball fields?
1379
1380 Jim Parker: correct . Ms . Kirk made some comments about environmental considerations . There are some stormwater
1381 ponds there that are good sources of irrigation water and good sources for fire protection if we go down the septic route .
1382
1383 Adam Beeman : Why the 60-foot-tall building for the athletic building ?
1384
1385 Jim Parker: You ' ve got to have height for the tennis .
1386
1387 Adam Beeman : A lot of the industrial buildings top off at 45 , I ' m just curious .
1388
1389 Jim Parker : If the 60 foot is a concern , we can discuss that.
1390
1391 Adam Beeman : I am looking at your handicap parking . I don 't know what the minimum standards are but your drawing
1392 shows 6 spots and one hash mark and the rest of them are all stacked up next to each other. Being a disabled person , 1
1393 find that wholly inadequate . I would like to see hash marks between them or you could do two spaces and hash marks
1394 on either side .
1395
1396 Jim Parker: You are exactly right but understand that these are all the standards that are in the UDO .
1397
1398 Adam Beeman : If you are meeting the minimum we can see if we can agree on the additions of hash lines . . . that to me ,
1399 being disabled it is difficult to get out of a normal sized space . It didn ' t seem like they were very user friendly for the
1400 disabled folks . Can we agree that you will put hash marks ?
1401
1402 Jim Parker : We can agree to that, yes .
1403
1404 Statler Gilfillen : As an architect with a background in preservation , these plans are very schematic and preliminary . When
1405 you get down to submitting the final architectural plans , there are very detailed sets of laws that you have to follow or you
1406 can 't get a building permit .
1407
1408 Adam Beeman : If that' s the minimum and they' ve met the minimum and we ' ve approved it then what' s to say they have
1409 to put hash marks later?
1410
1411 Statler Gilfillen : It might be on the state law . . .
1412
1413 Adam Beeman : I don ' t know the state law, I am simply ensuring that we are on the same page and both agree that we
1414 need hash marks regardless of. . . . There is no athletic programs at the school , so there is no after school programs
1415 where they are playing soccer or . . . they just go to classes themselves?
1416
1417 Jim Parker: I don ' t think we can speak to the exact programming , but I would say they would have some after school
1418 programming .
1419
1420 Adam Beeman : We have calculated that the school is done at let out time but if they are still filtering in after school time
1421 for athletic programs that needs to be added into the drip calculation . . .
1422
1423 Jim Parker: Yes , you are right, there are after school programs but it's not the full peak .
1424
Approved & T23
1425 Adam Beeman : I understand but in combination with the other fields , as the HYAA representative said , they start at 6 ,
1426 those folks are going to start rolling in for baseball , it sounds like tennis is going to be happening all day long , I am just
1427 trying to figure out the extra folks after school once school has been let out .
1428
1429 Lyle Overstreet : The trip calculations for the school are based on state wide averages of other, similar schools so it is
1430 baked into the numbers .
1431
1432 Adam Beeman : Okay , I had not heard anything about athletic programs for the school , and I was just curious to know if
1433 they were having athletic programs .
1434
1435 Beth Bronson : Would those parking lots for the upper and lower schools be open to the public after 5 ? Or would they
1436 remain a private parking lot given that they are on a separate parcel .
1437
1438 Jim Parker : They are going to co -exist together, I ' m sure that if the capacity of the parking for the fields is not enough
1439 that sharing parking is a great option but that would be up to the school if they chose to do that . If we can get this
1440 rezoned , then those conversations could happen with those potential owners .
1441
1442 Beth Bronson - My point being that there are 192 spaces by the baseball fields and I didn ' t see what the count was for by
1443 the tennis court, I assume it' s similar . . . .
1444
1445 Jim Parker : A condition that we could set and take with us is that there would be consideration for shared parking . . . .
1446
1447 Adam Beeman : I had a question about the articulation agreement . . .
1448
1449 Melissa Poole : I know what this is . . there are currently two charter schools in Hillsborough . There is the Expedition
1450 school and there is Eno River Academy . My children went to TEF and once they reached the 8th grade , there is an
1451 articulation agreement for the high school . You can have articulation agreements for charter schools .
1452
1453 Overlapping conversations about seats available for transfer at various schools and articulation agreements .
1454
1455 A letter from Joey Webb was read by a representative from the charter school .
1456
1457 Statler Gilfillen : What are we actually approving tonight? This is about a piece of property with a school on it . It could be
1458 any kind of school on this site . If it is a private school then the developer has rights about who is allowed to go into that
1459 school , right?
1460
1461 Patrick Byker: If for some reason this became a site for Durham Academy , then that private school admission process by
1462 law prohibits discrimination .
1463
1464 Statler Gilfillen : If this were a private school , unlike a charter school then all of the neighbors and immediate property
1465 owners around this property , that school could offer special compensation to them if they had children who wanted to
1466 come there and could walk there . That could be hypothetically possible , right?
1467
1468 Patrick Byker : The down side is they would have to pay .
1469
1470 Statler Gilfillen : Yes but they could also offer a discount to the immediate property owners .
1471
1472 Overlapping conversations
1473
1474 Chris Johnston : We can ' t consider that it is a charter school , we can ' t consider that it is a public school , all we can
1475 consider is that it is a school , but does that matter for capacity? If the argument is that we are serving capacity for the
1476 local school system and this is a school that potentially pulls from outside the county, is that anything that we can
1477 consider or is that considering a charter school ?
1478
1479 Patrick Byker: My understanding is no .
Approved & T23
1480
1481 Beth Bronson : There was no hydraulic survey done , just the wells . . . correct? Taking all of this in and taking the public
1482 comments , I have a couple of conditions that I would propose to the board .
1483
1484 Melissa Poole : Don 't forget the conditions outlined .
1485
1486 1 . Adding fire hydrants along Hwy 70A where the water line comes in
1487 2 . Include applying for school zone designation
1488 3 . Adding a median on Lawrence Rd . to prevent corner cutting on OLD NC10 (where Lawrence Rd . starts)
1489 4 . Increase hash mark spaces between handicap parking spaces
1490 5 . Perform updated traffic impact analysis in 5 years or at the completion of enrollment at the Upper School ,
1491 whichever occurs first .
1492 6 . Extend buffer zone from 70A to meet at the main entrance off of Lawrence Rd .
1493 7 . Limit the height of the tennis lights to 35 feet, using the minimum amount of light necessary .
1494
1495 MOTION By Beth Bronson to recommend approval with the 7 added conditions . Seconded by Whitney Watson .
1496
1497 Adam Beeman : Yes
1498
1499 Lamar Proctor: No
1500
1501 Beth Bronson : Yes
1502
1503 Statler Gilfillen : Yes
1504
1505 Melissa Poole : Yes
1506
1507 Whitney Watson : Yes
1508
1509 Charity Kirk : No
1510
1511 Steve Kaufmann : No
1512
1513 Elizabeth Kalies : No
1514
1515 Chris Johnston : No
1516
1517 MOTION TIE VOTE 5.5
1518
1519 Cy Stober: The adopted rules of procedure for the County Advisory Boards require that a majority vote be used in
1520 deciding recommendations to the elected body, so you will need to come up with a majority vote .
1521
1522 Lamar Proctor: I would like to say that I am really torn on this because I really want ball fields , I really want these
1523 services for the county , I know we are in need of them . I specifically asked about a site that had been cleared for HYAA
1524 ball fields but was told that is no longer viable . There needs to be a solution to that . At the same time , under our
1525 comprehensive land use plan , there are certain objectives that we are supposed to consider in making land use planning
1526 decisions . Read Land use objectives 1 . 1 , 1 . 2 , 3 . 1 , 6 . 2 , wastewater goal #5 , 1 am just articulating my reasons for voting
1527 against this . As one of the members of the public stated , it kind of feels like we are trying to stuff an elephant into a box
1528 in this spot . I have concerns by the public , the elected mayor of Hillsborough that this proposed zoning change under this
1529 conditional use with 1 , 400 students squeezed into Lawrence Rd . and 70 with water and sewer being provided by the
1530 town . I don 't see how that is going to happen without alternative plans on how to get at least sewer to this site and state
1531 law requires the municipality to provide water. Thinking about a 1 , 400 student school in this spot with the water and
1532 sewer needs of the school that is my concern . This particular site , as much as I want these things is consistent with our
1533 comprehensive plan .
1534
Approved & 7 - 23
1535 Melissa Poole : You referenced the relationship with a municipality and under the current municipality plan , it is aligned . Is
1536 that correct?
1537
1538 Cy Stober : That is correct . We didn ' t include it in our consistency statement but we did consult with WASMPBA but we
1539 can provide that in the future .
1540
1541 Lamar Proctor: So it is within the WASMPBA boundary to provide sewer and water?
1542
1543 Cy Stober : The primary service area , yes .
1544
1545 Lamar Proctor: Thank you for that clarification .
1546
1547 Steve Kaufmann : Still , the neighborhood will not be able to get water and sewer, even though it is in that region ?
1548
1549 Cy Stober: They would have to voluntarily have to apply for connection and I believe annexation to the Town of
1550 Hillsborough , pay the connection fees as well as any associated annexation fees .
1551
1552 Adam Beeman : They wouldn ' t be forced to hop on if the pipe goes by your house , you don 't have to get on the water,
1553 you could maintain your septic and well ?
1554
1555 Cy Stober: I have been doing planning since 2007 and the state law changed in 2008 regarding voluntary annexation .
1556 Formerly that would have been an option , the town could have just annexed everyone but no , today you must voluntarily
1557 petition for annexation as an individual property owner or a group of property owners . The town cannot force you to be
1558 annexed to the town of Hillsborough .
1559
1560 Adam Beeman : Even if the pipe runs right by your front door, you have to ask for the annexation ? I don ' t want to see
1561 anyone be forced . . .
1562
1563 Cy Stober : Only in the event of well or septic failure which is a state environmental health regulation .
1564
1565 Beth Bronson : What is important though is that if the well fails and the septic fails and there happens to be a pipe by their
1566 house , they are required . . .
1567
1568 Adam Beeman : The old law was that if the pipe came by their house , they were forced to abandon their well . I want to
1569 make sure no one is forced to abandon what they already have .
1570
1571 Patrick Byker: That is not the case anymore and state law precludes it .
1572
1573 Lamar Proctor: Who is paying to hook up well and septic to the school ? The town ?
1574
1575 Patrick Byker: No , no , that is all paid for by the private development team . The school pays for every inch of pipe and
1576 everything that is associated with that .
1577
1578 Jim Parker: The cost of the water and sewer from any existing pipe that the town has is paid for by the school .
1579
1580 Patrick Byker : The pipe , the manholes the water line . . .
1581
1582 Applicant : The fees , permits , testing all of it is paid by the school , the town does not pay anything . They collect double
1583 the water rates for the usage . If you go on the town ' s website and look at the amount of water that is treated by the town
1584 and their treatment plan , is on average about 1 . 2 million gallons per day and they are permitted for 3 million gallons a
1585 day on both plants . You can look at those reports for yourself online , it' s very clear. 1 . 2 million gallons a day is processed
1586 through the town ' s treatment . This is . 015 million gallons a day if both schools are there . It is extremely negligible . So
1587 capacity is not an issue .
1588
1589 Whitney Watson : I think a lot of folks on the board are conflicted about this proposal and one of their reasons is that
1590 under land use goal 3 is preserving the community and rural character and land use goal 5 . 6 is provide the county' s
Approved & 7 -23
1591 population and economy with future uses , recreation and schools . So those two items seem to be in conflict with each
1592 other. We really as a board have not talked very much about if this will preserve the community and rural character of
1593 this parcel or this neighborhood . We have heard a lot about desirable schools , desirable recreation activities , perhaps as
1594 a board we need to spend some time talking about preserving community and rural character.
1595
1596 Melissa Poole : One of the options is to give extended time to consider . . . .
1597
1598 Adam Beeman : What do you want to achieve with the extended time?
1599
1600 Charity Kirk : We obviously need to discuss more or throw up another vote . . . is anyone changing their vote?
1601
1602 Statler Gilfillen : I am very close as the Eno River representative to changing my vote as these people are my neighbors
1603 and live around me . I live on the old Jackson Farm site and if someone were to come in on the 40 -50 acres with this
1604 development right next to my house , the old farmhouse on St . Mary' s , I would be very concerned . I am hearing a lot of
1605 serious issues from these people . I also have a great deal of respect for Jim Parker and what he has done and is trying
1606 to do . So I have mixed feelings about it and I have been right on that edge . Up until tonight when I couldn 't think of a
1607 reason not to . What you just commented about the rural atmosphere , it affects all of us . What is the nature of our
1608 community , you are putting a large block of property and are completely surrounded by neighbors . That was part of why 1
1609 was asking Mr. Parker earlier about the question of if you put a school in , is there some sort of compensation . Long term ,
1610 that type of solution may increase their property values but that is a hypothetical , so I have mixed feelings . I am not sure
1611 that I should be voting tonight.
1612
1613 MOTION BY Beth Bronson to take additional time to review this matter concerning the proposed rezoning Atlas Map
1614 amendment parcel number PIN 9883- 194355 . Seconded by Charity Kirk
1615
1616 Adam Beeman : No
1617
1618 Chris Johnston : No
1619
1620 Lamar Proctor: Yes
1621
1622 Beth Bronson : Yes
1623
1624 Statler Gilfillen : Yes
1625
1626 Melissa Poole : Yes
1627
1628 Whitney Watson : Yes
1629
1630 Charity Kirk : Yes
1631
1632 Steve Kaufmann : Yes
1633
1634 Elizabeth Kalies : Yes
1635
1636 MOTION PASSED 8 -2
1637
1638 The next scheduled meeting is May 3 , 2023 7 : 00 pm
1639
1640 AGENDA ITEM 4 : ADJOURNMENT
1641
1642 Meeting was adjourned at 11 : 10 PM
1643
1644
1645 Adam Beeman , Chair