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HomeMy WebLinkAbout10.5.22 Planning Board Minutes Approved 12.7.22 1 MEETING MINUTES 2 ORANGE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD 3 OCTOBER 5,2022 4 REGULAR MEETING 5 6 MEMBERS PRESENT: Adam Beeman (Chair), Cedar Grove Township Representative; Lamar Proctor(Vice-Chair), 7 Cheeks Township Representative; Whitney Watson,At-Large Representative; David Blankfard, Hillsborough Township 8 Representative; Beth Bronson,At-Large Representative; Randy Marshall,At-Large Representative; Charity Kirk,At- 9 Large Representative; Delores Bailey,At-Large Representative; Steve Kaufmann, Bingham Township Representative; 10 Susan Hunter, Chapel Hill Township Representative; Statler Gilfillen, Eno Township Representative; 11 12 MEMBERS ABSENT: Melissa Poole, Little River Township Representative; 13 14 STAFF PRESENT: Cy Stober, Planning & Inspections Director; Perdita Holtz, Special Projects&GIS Supervisor; Pat 15 Mallet, Interim Current Planning Supervisor/Erosion Control, Stormwater&Engineering Supervisor;Tom Altieri, 16 Comprehensive Planning Supervisor; Brian Collie, Planner II; Tyler Sliger, Planner II; Carlos Sanchez, Planning 17 Technician;Tina Love,Administrative Support 18 19 OTHERS PRESENT: Briant Robey, Doug Barr, Beth Myers, Leah Cook, John Mark Thomas, Mimi Locathetis, Celia Rice 20 21 22 AGENDA ITEM 1: CALL TO ORDER AND ROLL CALL 23 Chair Adam Beeman called the meeting to order 24 25 26 AGENDA ITEM 2: INFORMATION ITEMS 27 a. Planning Calendar for August and September 28 b. Countywide Strategic Plan and Comprehensive Land Use Plan Update 29 30 Tom Altieri updated the Board on the Countywide Strategic Plan the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and advised a 31 consultant may be on board by the end on the year to begin work on the Strategic Plan early next year. Additionally, a 32 resolution of intent for the Comprehensive Land Use Plan update is going forward to the BOCC on October 18, 2022. 33 34 35 AGENDA ITEM 3: APPROVAL OF MINUTES 36 September 7, 2022 Regular Meeting Minutes 37 38 MOTION BY Randy Marshall to approve the September 7, 2022 Regular Meeting Minutes. Seconded by Beth Bronson. 39 MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY 40 41 42 AGENDA ITEM 4: CONSIDERATION OF ADDITIONS TO AGENDA. 43 There were none 44 45 46 AGENDA ITEM 5: PUBLIC CHARGE 47 48 INTRODUCTION TO THE PUBLIC CHARGE 49 The Board of County Commissioners, under the authority of North Carolina General Statute, appoints 50 the Orange County Planning Board (OCPB)to uphold the written land development law of the County. 51 The general purpose of OCPB is to guide and accomplish coordinated and harmonious development. 52 OCPB shall do so in a manner, which considers the present and future needs of its citizens and 53 businesses through efficient and responsive process that contributes to and promotes the health,safety, 54 and welfare of the overall County. The OCPB will make every effort to uphold a vision of responsive 55 governance and quality public services during our deliberations, decisions, and recommendations. Approved 12.7.22 56 57 PUBLIC CHARGE 58 The Planning Board pledges to the citizens of Orange County its respect. The Board asks its citizens to 59 conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner, both with the Board and with fellow citizens. At 60 any time,should any member of the Board or any citizen fail to observe this public charge,the Chair will 61 ask the offending member to leave the meeting until that individual regains personal control. Should 62 decorum fail to be restored,the Chair will recess the meeting until such time that a genuine commitment 63 to this public charge is observed. 64 65 66 AGENDA ITEM 6: CHAIR COMMENTS 67 There were none 68 69 70 AGENDA ITEM 7: UNIFIED DEVELOPMENT ORDINANCE(UDO)TEXT AMENDMENT—NEIGHBORHOOD INFORMATION MEETINGS 71 -To make a recommendation to the BOCC on proposed amendments to the UDO pertaining to 72 Neighborhood Information Meetings. This item was introduced at the August 3, 2022 ORC meeting 73 and is scheduled for a BOCC Public Hearing in November. 74 PRESENTER: Tyler Sliger, Planner II 75 76 Tyler Sliger reviewed the proposed UDO text amendment. 77 78 Lamar Proctor: So this amendment is proposing taking Planning completely out of the NIM process? 79 80 Tyler Sliger: Yes. Like other jurisdictions, this puts the responsibility on the applicant. I couldn't find another jurisdiction 81 where they have a planner do this. 82 83 Lamar Proctor: Personally, it scares me because it seems like you are putting the fox in charge of the hen house. You 84 are going to leave the applicant who has a monetary interest in a land use change completely in charge of providing 85 information, posting, noticing. You are putting the applicant who has the monetary incentive for this thing to pass,they 86 are going to make a lot of money,they are unilaterally informing and noticing those neighbors who are most directly 87 affected without any oversight or even availability of planning to answer questions to the general public. That seems 88 hugely irresponsible to me. 89 90 Tyler Sliger: That is what the report is for. If they do not meet the requirements, they are not following procedure.They 91 would have to have the Neighborhood Information Meeting. 92 93 Lamar Proctor: Then they can just report whatever they want to report there is no independent witness to verify the 94 authenticity or credibility of what the developer who has a huge interest in making sure it passes, that it's verified and 95 true in the report. It says on page 15 sub 5 that the applicant shall submit a written report of the NIM to the Planning 96 Department before a public hearing is held and the written report shall include those things. So, before a public hearing 97 is held. 98 99 Tyler Sliger: Correct, before they get to this point they have to have a Neighborhood Information Meeting. 100 101 Beth Bronson: They could literally have given you the report on that this morning. 102 103 Delores Bailey: Don't you schedule the Public Hearing? So,they would have to have everything in before you would 104 schedule it. 105 106 Tyler Sliger: That is part of the application so they get it one day before this meeting and they don't have the necessary 107 documentation to go to the Planning Board or BOCC because you don't get this packet the day before. 108 109 Overlapping conversations 110 Approved 12.7.22 111 Tyler Sliger: Before the packet is sent out everything you are sent has to be submitted a week before so if they don't 112 send this report in a week before your packet is go out then it's not on the agenda. 113 114 Beth Bronson: Then why is it changed from being scheduled to be held? I think that should be written into the text 115 amendment that would be my recommendation. That should be in the text amendment that the report is available 14 116 days prior to the Planning Board. 117 118 Adam Beeman: Look at the last sentence on page 15,the meeting shall be held a minimum of 14 days prior to the date 119 of the Planning Board meeting where the application is scheduled for review. So they have to have it 2 weeks ahead of 120 time that means they've got 14 days to get it sent in. 121 122 Beth Bronson:Then have 13 days to get out the report. 123 124 Overlapping conversations 125 126 Beth Bronson: I know it sounds nitpicky. 127 128 Delores Bailey: But they control whether it goes on the agenda so if they don't get the packet in enough time it won't be 129 on our agenda. 130 131 Beth Bronson: Well they say until the meeting then they can schedule the Public Hearing. 132 133 Delores Bailey: It doesn't matter. 134 135 Adam Beeman: If they don't pass their paperwork in then their meeting would just get kicked and they wouldn't be in 136 front of us. 137 138 Cy Stober: Question of direction from the Planning Board,would it be more satisfactory to have that trigger rather than 139 be scheduling a public hearing, be scheduling a Planning Board meeting? Rather than the language reading scheduling 140 a public hearing it would be to schedule the Planning Board meeting. 141 142 Beth Bronson: Yes. 143 144 Cy Stober: Ok. 145 146 Adam Beeman: That way they have to have the written paperwork in before you can even schedule a meeting with us. 147 The public hearing is this in front of the Planning Board the NIM is just the name of the information meeting. That's what 148 1 think you are getting flip flopped. The public hearing would have been they have to have the paperwork in before they 149 can get this meeting scheduled. 150 151 Cy Stober: The public hearing is the meeting before the Board of County Commissioners. This is a public meeting, it's 152 not a public hearing. So if we change the language from public hearing to the Planning Board meeting. 153 154 Lamar Proctor: The way this is written would it have allowed them to submit the NIM report after we heard about it? 155 After we considered it? 156 157 Cy Stober: No,the application would be considered incomplete without the written report but to address the concerns 158 that have been stated today this would provide additional time prior to even scheduling the Planning Board meeting. We 159 would have to have the written report in hand before we could even schedule it. 160 161 Lamar Proctor: Right, cause the way this reads you don't have to have the report in hand before you schedule it. They 162 can just turn the report in like Beth said. 163 164 Cy Stober: That's the concern I'm hearing so if we provided that textual change. 165 Approved 12.7.22 166 Lamar Proctor: That's one concern but I still have the overarching concern of now you've taken any government 167 presence out of the NIM meeting and so allowing the developers or the applicant to unilaterally convey information 168 however they see fit whether correct or not correct,whether they are misstating the UDO and the Comprehensive Land 169 Use Plan. Whether they are misstating the process,there is no representative from government that can correct any 170 misstatement by applicants whether intentional or not at the Neighborhood Information Meeting. Then what is reported 171 by the applicant in the NIM report,who knows, its accuracy. We have no idea. 172 173 Charity Kirk: How do other governmental bodies do this similar thing,validate that things were done as deemed? 174 175 Tyler Sliger: I reached out to Chapel Hill about how they do theirs because I could not find it in their ordinance and 1 176 have not heard back from them. Carrboro just states that they have to have one there is no requirement like we do in 177 having ours. It just says people in a 500 ft. radius have to be notified and that's it. It doesn't tell when they have to have 178 it or anything like that. Basically, Chatham County is a lot like this where they put the responsibility on the applicant to 179 do this process and they check what they do. 180 181 Charity Kirk: So how do you plan on checking what they do? 182 183 Tyler Sliger: Basically, confirming their report. If no one comes to a Neighborhood Information Meeting, that is a little bit 184 skeptical and if it is in a 1,000 ft. radius they are going to get a Planning Board notification letter. If they come and we 185 have a report of someone not getting or they weren't notified about a NIM then we would say that they didn't follow 186 procedure. They have to have it somewhere. If they don't go to,for instance, the Library or they say they are going to 187 have it that's a red flag. 188 189 Lamar Proctor: I love the system we have. I think it is a boon to our citizens. I think it keeps people very well informed 190 about the changes that are going on. Frankly, I think 1,000 ft. in the County is too short of a distance. I think it should be 191 2,500 ft. I think when you are talking about large projects that occur in the County that sometimes encapsulates 10, 192 scores, 100s of acres, involves millions of sq.ft.of impervious surface, 1,000 ft. is kind of way too small because those 193 sorts of projects are going to have effects for miles around. I think 1,000 ft. is ridiculously short for County projects 194 especially ones that are larger and involve larger acreage and sq.ft. I love the fact that Planning is there. I know it's a 195 lot of work for Planning but I feel like it assures me that applicants and developers aren't taking advantage of the 196 process. 197 198 David Blankfard: Can we just have a member of staff be required to go to the NIM? 199 200 Charity Kirk: Yea.. 201 202 Cy Stober: We can do that. I would be more comfortable coming back to you with language rather than coming up with 203 a clause on the fly. We will consult with the Attorney's Office on a simple clause. Hopefully, 10 words or less. 204 205 Charity Kirk:Another thing is that rather than a written report, you could ask for a recording of the meeting. If the concern 206 is a lack of validation of a developer,you can validate what happened. 207 208 Cy Stober: My only concern is I would like to have leeway to have a recording or to have staff go to observe. The 209 concern from Planning staff and the reason that Planning staff often don't present at NIMs is that our opportunity to 210 provide findings of fact is this meeting. When we present at a Neighborhood Information Meeting, it gives the 211 appearance that we are representing the project which is not our role. Our role is to find the facts, disclose them to the 212 appointed and elected officials and the public at open meetings. Neighborhood Information Meetings are a courtesy 213 extended through our ordinance and through many ordinances, including most of our neighbors and most of our 214 municipalities, but not all of them, and the responsibility for leading that discussion is appropriately the applicant or the 215 developer. Having Planning staff also has the effect of chilling the opportunity for a robust and productive discussion 216 between the applicant and concerned neighbors to find solutions to their concerns. If we are always there saying no, no, 217 no,you can't do that it stifles some creativity that may result from a discussion between the applicant and those who are 218 most affected by what they are proposing to do. Those are the concerns that we have,the Planning staff. I hear your 219 concern about verifying the proceeding of the NIM. I think that we can come up with some basic very simple language to 220 address that. Approved 12.7.22 221 222 Randy Marshall: I completely agree with the notion that the applicant needs to defend his own project and the Planning 223 staff doesn't need to be there defending the applicant's project because I think that puts the focus, as you've said, on the 224 Planning staff and not on the applicant where it needs to be.That being said, I concur that there needs to be some 225 verification as to what happened at those Neighborhood Meetings either recording and/or a staff person present who 226 could answer questions if need be is just wise. If we could reword that to include it in this text amendment, I think that 227 would be preferable. 228 229 Cy Stober: If there are other concerns, I am happy to address them otherwise I would request a vote to continue that to 230 the next meeting to address those concerns stated tonight. 231 232 Beth Bronson:And prior to the Planning Board meeting being held. 233 234 Cy Stober: We'll address that text change as well. 235 236 MOTION BY Beth Bronson to continue this text amendment. Seconded by Statler Gilfillen. 237 MOTION PASSED UNANIMOUSLY 238 239 240 AGENDA ITEM 8: ZONING ATLAS AMENDMENT(CONVENTIONAL DISTRICT)—To review and make a recommendation to the 241 BOCC on an applicant-initiated zoning atlas amendment to rezone a 7.05 acres portion of property, 242 which totals 54.23 acres,from AR(Agricultural Residential)to NR-CD(Non-Residential Conditional 243 District). 244 The parcel's is located at 9825 NC Highway 49 in the Cedar Grove Township(PIN 9940-46-0359). 245 This item is scheduled for the BOCC public hearing in November. 246 PRESENTER: Brian Collie, Planner II 247 248 Brian Collie presented a PowerPoint presentation and reviewed the proposed zoning atlas amendment. 249 250 Beth Bronson: Can you clarify the industrial zoning? The NR-CD applications,the red area that you mentioned is part of 251 a Rural Industrial Zoning District? 252 253 Brian Collie: No, it's not a zoning district. It's in an activity node, a certain amount of land is allowed to be rezoned to 254 commercial needs. 255 256 Perdita Holtz: The Rural Industrial Node is a Future Land Use Map classification that is found in the Comprehensive 257 Plan. It is not a zoning district;you can see there that the definition of Rural Industrial Activity Node is the areas that are 258 focused on designated road intersections. Designated road intersections in this case is the confluence of NC 49 and NC 259 86 and it serves as crossroads for the surrounding rural community and is an appropriate location for small scale 260 industrial uses. That is the vision of the Comprehensive Plan as it is written today for that type of node. That being said, 261 NR-CD is allowed in the Rural Industrial Activity Nodes and as part of that any of those permitted uses can be applied 262 for. 263 264 Brian Collie continued the PowerPoint presentation and review of the proposed zoning atlas amendment 265 266 Applicant Representatives Briant Roby and Doug Barr reviewed the site plan and gave an overview. 267 268 Charity Kirk: I have a general Comprehensive Plan question, on the map it looks like it is a Rural Neighborhood zone, 269 not a Rural Industrial zone, can you clarify? In the Comprehensive Plan document not in your slide. Page 86 of 270 Comprehensive Plan document shows that it's a pink area around that node which indicates Rural Neighborhood. 271 272 Brian Collie: It is within the Rural Industrial Activity Node. 273 274 Perdita Holtz pointed out the location on the Future Land Use Map. 275 Approved 12.7.22 276 Charity Kirk: So this is more serving the county above us. 277 278 Brian Collie: A little bit of both. There is a need for them to submit the 30 ft. landscaping buffers on the site plan. 279 280 Lamar Proctor: Can you explain the relationship between the total acreage of the parcel, 54.23 acres but 7.05 acres is 281 what they are asking to be rezoned and you are going to develop. Is that the set ratio for Hyco Watershed? 282 283 Briant Roby: It's the 7 of the 54, its 7 acres based on the fact that 15%of that 7 acres is impervious. 284 285 Lamar Proctor: So it's a 15% impervious limit so to get the impervious surface,you have to rezone 7 acres. 286 287 Briant Roby: Exactly. 288 289 Lamar Proctor: But the rest of the property could be rezoned later. That's not at issue, it's just these 7 acres because 290 you're limited to 15%? 291 292 Briant Roby: That's correct. There is a limit in a protected watershed on how many can be impervious. We have been 293 through the exercise of ensuring that this is within those limits. 294 295 Whitney Watson: You had asked for a reduction in the number of parking spaces, I'm curious how you arrived at that. 296 What kind of studies were done to determine if the amount of parking spaces would be adequate for customers. 297 298 Briant Roby: Primarily based on rural character of the site, a traffic impact analysis was required as it is with all 299 conditional zoning requests. The peak traffic per hour didn't come out to justify the need for the full 53 spaces,46 will be 300 adequate based on that. Part of that was also off-setting the use of those islands as landscaping as well. Based on 301 where this is located,we don't anticipate the need for the full 53 spaces. 302 303 Whitney Watson: Does that mean that you also did an assessment about customers per hour? 304 305 Briant Roby: That's correct. 306 307 Whitney Watson: So that's relatively low? If you are allowed 53-54 spaces and you want to reduce it to 46 or 47 is that 308 still going to be enough spaces. How do you justify the reduction or even in fact,the flipside of that is how do you justify 309 placing a retail establishment there that is going to have a relatively low use from customers? 310 311 Briant Roby: Understood. 312 313 Whitney Watson: They made some assessment,some calculation about this to begin with that it was going to be viable 314 based on this size store, this number of spaces,this many people per hour and I was curious how those numbers came 315 out. 316 317 Briant Roby: I would have to double check the report but we do have figures for what the peak hour is,what the total 318 daily trips are and looking at that and assuming length of trip,we can go back into whether or not that is enough spaces 319 for a particular use. 320 321 Statler Gilfillen: You are looking for a variance for fewer parking spaces, under what the code technically requires, if that 322 is approved and 2 years from now it turns out that all the planning that was done, all the estimates,the future there were 323 done were seriously in error and we need to put the additional parking back or it is determined that it should be put back. 324 What safeguards do we have to approve it less for now when in reality, say 2 years from now,they find out they really 325 need those spaces to require them to be put in. I don't know if there is a firm answer to that. 326 327 Briant Roby: There is a small amount of area on site that is not being used for impervious area. The spaces could be 328 added back later. We are very close to the threshold but good design guidelines include leaving a small amount of 329 additional area. 330 Approved 12.7.22 331 Randy Marshall: Is there any elaboration that could be given for why the area was designated as Rural Industrial in the 332 first place. I don't know how long it's been that but what was thinking when it was designated that way? Some group, 333 presumably the County Commissioners, made a determination that this was going to be future Rural Industrial. My point, 334 down the road is if it has been designated, someone thought that this was an appropriate place to have this designation 335 in place and the developer is taking advantage of the County's designation of this to fulfill the Commissioners desires 336 that this could be developed at some point. 337 338 Perdita Holtz: It was part of the former Comprehensive Plan. The Future Land Use Map did not get changed in the 339 2008 update and so it was part of the 1981 Comprehensive Plan.Whether it was designated in'81 or sometime between 340 '81 and when I arrived in '03, 1 cannot say for certain but it has been that way since at least 2003 and my money would 341 be on that it has been designated that way since 1981. 342 343 Randy Marshall: So presumably, it's not a big surprise to anyone that this is a potential future use for this particular 344 piece of property. 345 346 Perdita Holtz: For people who are familiar with the Future Land Use Map, it shouldn't be but many people are not 347 familiar with the Future Land Use Map. 348 349 Delores Bailey: As a regular citizen, I wouldn't know that right? I could have gone past that parcel all my life and never 350 realized that was the designated use. 351 352 Perdita Holtz: It's been my observation that people buy houses and don't realize that the land next to them is designated 353 commercial. I'm not just talking about Orange County, I'm talking everywhere. 354 355 Beth Bronson: The Rural Industrial term, defined as land focused on designated road intersections that is appropriate 356 for small scale industrial uses which do not require urban type services, so to the conversation of if this is consistent with 357 what a Rural Industrial Activity Node looks like, I would say that this is a retail space in the application versus an 358 industrial manufacturing or building, am I misinterpreting industrial? 359 360 Charity Kirk: I believe this is on the allowed lists for the definition of Rural Industrial. 361 362 Adam Beeman: To the Conditional District, the industrial zoning is an overlay that they can fall under but it doesn't 363 actually mean that area is the industrial. If we give them the Conditional District that they're seeking,they say they only 364 want the retail but all those uses would be under this Conditional District. 365 366 Charity Kirk: Your question is how do we define Rural Industrial. 367 368 Beth Bronson: No,would the applicant's proposal for a Family Dollar meet that consistency,we would rezone it to non- 369 residential because it's within a Rural Industrial Node. However, does this application for the Family Dollar meet what is 370 interpreted in the Land Use as Rural Industrial or is it appropriate, consistent? 371 372 Adam Beeman: Dollar General is less than 4/10 of a mile from driveway to driveway and there is a gas station with a full 373 store and a little small restaurant just 4/10 of a mile away. I would ask why is it needed? What brought this about? 1 374 don't believe it represents the character or the area up there, so for me, I'm against the retail change in general. Right at 375 the point of this property is the sign that says Welcome to Cedar Grove which is essentially saying welcome to Orange 376 County because you just rolled out of Caswell County. 377 378 Charity Kirk: What was the intention of Rural Industrial? 379 380 Perdita Holtz: I read you the intention earlier. Beth just reiterated it. What it comes down to is that NR-CD is an 381 allowable zoning district within the Rural Industrial Future Land Use category and this is an allowable use within NR-CD 382 and the County has legislative discretion on whether to approve it or not. 383 384 Charity Kirk: So now, I guess now it's up to us to define what industrial does meet the definition. 385 Approved 12.7.22 386 Adam Beeman: If you guys want to go forward and give them approval,you are allowed to give them conditions and 387 negotiate some conditions and give and take that everybody has to agree to. There is that opportunity if anybody else is 388 interested, you already know my position and I am going to stick with my position there is nothing, nobody is going to 389 change my mind so I'll let the rest of you guys debate. 390 391 David Blankfard: Should we let the public speak? 392 393 Adam Beeman: Ok, I didn't know if you guys wanted to debate or discussion on our end before we let the public speak. 394 That way maybe the public can understand where most of everybody stands. 395 396 Steve Kaufmann: Do you actually live in that area? 397 398 Adam Beeman: I do, I'm less than 10 minutes from that spot. I drive by there all the time. When I first came in 2008 a 399 Mebane Shrubbery sign was there and they had moved and that was last thing that was on that property and there has 400 been nothing there since 2008 since I've lived here, nothing. 401 402 Delores Bailey: With you being there that long, and you knowing exactly what it could do,what did you expect as a 403 neighbor of this spot? What did you think might go there? 404 405 Adam Beeman: I would like to see the industrial stuff. I would prefer to see some sort of manufacturing or something go 406 on because there is a Dollar General. There's not on Orange County's side, if you rode down coming into Caswell and 407 past this property, I think I passed 2 houses within a half mile of the place and if you go down 49, it's another half mile 408 before you hit residences. It really gets sparse out there, it's tobacco fields, soybean fields there is not a lot of density so 409 when they say they had to reduce their parking because the numbers didn't work,they're competing with Dollar General 410 and the other gas station with is 4/10 of a mile up the street. I don't see that store,just like White Cross, you guys all 411 were against the Dollar General rezoning in that White Cross property. To me, I don't see it any differently. There's 412 people there serving the need. 413 414 Delores Bailey: So light industrial you imagined would go there. 415 416 Adam Beeman: Yeah, down on 86 you see Happy Wax and what used to be the old forms place,that type of thing that 417 doesn't require a whole lot of staff, there's a building there and it's just kind of out there doing their thing. That's 418 something that I would envision or same concept with Efland where the gentleman wanted to put in some smaller 419 storefront with some storage space so a contractor up in my neck of the woods could rent a space and have something. 420 That would be more beneficial to the people in my area than another Family Dollar or another discount dollar store, 1 421 don't personally see the need for it and I don't see it being helpful to the County. I don't see it being in harmony with the 422 County. Like in White Cross it would take away any future availability for any other future land so that they could get that 423 spot. So you're taking away industrial space for a Family Dollar, I don't see it. You can never convince me that's 424 pushing the County forward and that's going to make us, it's the first thing people are going to see when they come in 425 out of State. People come down all the time from Virginia driving down 86 coming into North Carolina and they are going 426 to roll right Family Dollar and say welcome to Orange County. 427 428 David Blankfard: Don't you think competition would be good. 429 430 Adam Beeman: Again, there's not that many people out there. I did some work for the Dollar General, someone 431 crashed their car into the service and they were without power for 2 days, I had to replace the panel,there was maybe 432 150 a day that go past that store. I just don't see 2 stores, its wasting resources, my opinion. Everybody else can have 433 a completely different view but that affects me, it's right up in my corner of the woods and I just don't see it. 434 435 Doug Burr: I'm Doug Burr with Elkin and Associates and I certainly appreciate all the comments. This is a little bit 436 different, and I hear you, it is a Family Dollar but it's a Family Dollar and Dollar Tree which is something that cannot be 437 offered, Dollar Tree in and of itself, I'm sure most are familiar with it. It caters itself a little bit differently than Dollar 438 General and Family Dollar so it allows more gifting, gift wrap,seasonal, school supplies and that kind of thing. An 439 offering at that single price point, half the store is Dollar Tree and half is Family Dollar. This is an opportunity for them to 440 come into markets like this that are very rural. It's a large company,they have a significant amount of stores that do a Approved 12.7.22 441 significant amount of studies to understand what kind of business they are going to do here. They are not frivolous in 442 what they do when they invest money into a site like this and this is one that they've looked at for some time. The Dollar 443 General does do a decent amount of business. They would serve to some competitiveness with them to keep everybody 444 working hard. It offers jobs in that area which is a very rural area. I understand it is retail there is not an enormous 445 amount of retail and a limited amount of people in that specific area. If you were to go into a tight circle of it, it services a 446 much larger rural area,the people are driving in and around to and from all over the place and the traffic does play a big 447 role into as well. I just wanted to offer that up as to why our client is considering this a site. There are some limited 448 resources up there for shopping and this would be another one and adding the Dollar Tree portion of it in certainly sets it 449 apart from the gas station and the Dollar General up there by adding another part of it that the area doesn't have and 450 wouldn't have typically because you can't. A standalone Dollar Tree can't survive. 451 452 Delores Bailey: And a market study was done for this? 453 454 Doug Burr: Dollar Tree has 16,000 stores between the 2 of them,they do internal studies that they analyze the entire 455 area, population,traffic that kind of thing and come to the conclusion as to what kind of sales they are going to do. 456 457 Delores Bailey: With the area being so rural, you are telling us that the market study supported it. 458 459 Doug Burr: Yes,supported this store. Supported this store with the Dollar General as well. With the traffic, I might just 460 address that as well. Most communities have a traffic requirement of 4 per 1000 and that is in a market like 461 Hillsborough. If you were to go in for general retail it would be 4 per 1000. On this particular case we are pushing more 462 5 per thousand or something like that to get us to the 53 parking spaces that are there so even in a market like this that 463 would have much higher traffic, of people coming through, on a store like this generally somewhat between 32 and 40 464 parking spaces is about what we would need given the traffic we might expect and usually that comes at Christmas time 465 it's not even at a normal shopping dates. Up in this particular area we are going to far exceed what we would need if we 466 were to go into a community as dense as where we are right now so the 53 parking spaces far exceeds what we typically 467 would need pretty much anywhere and how they operate. Usually we go with the extra ones because it's a requirement 468 of the area or code but generally speaking somewhere between 32 and 40 is what we usually are going for with this 469 client. 470 471 Randy Marshall: You are essentially counting on out of county customers or commuters to build your customer base to 472 make this a viable business because everyone seems to agree there is not sufficient residents within the circle around 473 the business to make it viable, is that correct? 474 475 Doug Burr: I would say that certainly plays a part of it. The other thing that happens is when you get into a rural area 476 like this generally you look at a 5 mile radius for this particular client as to how many people are there. When then look 477 at these rural areas and they've done many of them,they are looking at a much bigger circle, say 15, 20 miles. What 478 that will bring in is commuters coming back and the traffic that is actually going back and forth. I'm sure there is a lot of 479 people that might live up there that work down in Hillsborough or other place but traffic would play a role in that and draw 480 from a much larger area for people's daily needs rather than driving here or driving someplace else. 481 482 Randy Marshall: My point being if we are pulling in out of county customers,we're pulling in tax dollars to the Orange 483 County tax base that would not have been available otherwise. 484 485 Doug Burr: That's a good point. 486 487 Beth Bronson: Is there a plan to add groceries? 488 489 Doug Burr: They do have groceries but as far as fresh produce,they don't do that if that's what you're asking. They do 490 have a grocery component including freezers and coolers that would carry milk, eggs, and those types of things. It 491 would be somewhat limited by the nature of what they do. This store is going to offer the same things they would offer in 492 any other store. 493 494 Beth Bronson: Do they ever use local vendors? 495 Approved 12.7.22 496 Doug Burr: I don't exactly know they sourcing since I am the developer but they are a large company and they buy in a 497 huge selection and they have a limited price on their items so I don't know. 498 499 Beth Bronson: So whether or not they deviate from their very structured plan. 500 501 Doug Burr: I don't know the answer to that, I'm not sure. 502 503 Charity Kirk: A question about the conditional nature of this because that's one of the things in the White Cross 504 development,we couldn't set conditions,what kind of conditions are possible for us to set? 505 506 Adam Beeman: Things in the past that we've done was we negotiated electric charging stations in the parking lot. One 507 of the things they wanted to get away from the adding of the tree buffer and a lot of people don't get away with not 508 having the tree buffer. They are asking for that exception here. You can basically ask them for anything you want but 509 whether they agree to it is a different story. It's up to you and the applicant to agree on that and the Planning Board 510 would have to come to a consensus on whether we all agree with somebody's proposal before we presented it to the 511 applicant to go back and forth on but you can set any kind of condition you want to try. 512 513 Cy Stober: I am Cy Stober, Planning and Inspections Director for the County. Mr. Beeman is largely correct, it has to be 514 mutually agreed upon. The site plan the staff had on hand when packets went out and the site plan that is featured in 515 your packet,there were 2 waivers requested, 2 conditions requested to deviate from the development standards of the 516 ordinance; 1 for the parking because they were deficient at that time by 1 space but they also did not have the terminal 517 landscaped islands in the parking lot. They've since addressed that in the site plan you saw before you tonight so that 518 waiver is no longer being requested. The consequence of providing that landscaping is that they essentially lost 2 519 parking spaces per terminal island so now they are requesting the condition to not meet our parking standard to have 46 520 rather than 53 spaces. I think that was also based on a slightly different building footprint; it's about 52 so they are 521 deficient by 6 spaces at this time but Mr. Beeman is correct if there are additional elements that you'd like to see on the 522 site plan, this is a site specific plan,this will be the footprint that is binding to the property. All other development 523 standards must be complied with in Article 6 or any use specific standards for the retail use must be complied with 524 unless the condition has been requested by the applicant at this time as has been disclosed to staff it is simply the 1 525 condition to deviate from the parking standards. If are additional amenities or features you would like to negotiate with 526 the applicant this is an appropriate time to do so. 527 528 Randy Marshall: I am a little confused,we're dealing with an application for zoning atlas amendment but you're talking 529 about putting conditions on proposed project that seems like its 2 different items to me. 530 531 Cy Stober: Welcome to the wild world of conditional zoning, it does not have a long history in North Carolina. It is a 532 relatively new allowance under General Statutes, it dates back about 15+years and it does allow for site specific 533 requirements for unique zoning districts with unique requirements and unique allowances to deviate from the ordinance 534 requirements as seen appropriately in the legislative authority by the elected body, in this case the County 535 Commissioners and as advised by the Planning Board. This is a zoning district, it is a zoning district with a site specific 536 plan, if approved, it would be a zoning district with a site specific plan and specific conditions. At this time the only 537 condition that would be different from any other development standard is the parking. 538 539 Randy Marshall: So we are doing 2 things with 1 decisions here. 540 541 Cy Stober: That is correct. This is how metro areas end up with literally tens of thousands of zoning districts each with 542 their unique characteristics and they all have to be tracked. 543 544 Delores Bailey: It says Planning Director Recommendation what was that,would you remind us again. 545 546 Cy Stober: I am recommending the request as presented given the consistency with the Comprehensive Plan and its 547 goals and objectives. 548 549 Brian Collie continued his presentation 550 Approved 12.7.22 551 Beth Myers: My name is Beth Myers and I am a resident of Cedar Grove, I like on 86 at the intersection of 86 and Efland 552 Cedar Grove Road so very close here. I am about 2 miles south of the proposed project. I would like to say that I am 553 strongly opposed to it. As we've mentioned there is already a Dollar General in the area within walking distance of this 554 proposed project and I don't see this bringing any benefit to the County or to our rural neighborhood and we do want to 555 keep it rural. I am a farmer, I sell to Carrboro Farmer's Market and I really appreciate the rural area of Northern Orange 556 County and I really want to keep it that way. This project, other than I really don't understand the business aspect 557 behind it, they are competing with the Dollar General,they are absolutely not going to be bringing in new customers they 558 would simply be halving the existing customers between the 2 stores and there is already a gas station across from the 559 existing Dollar General. If you travel further south on 86 there is the Farm and Garden which recently reopened and they 560 have gas,they have a lot of local products that we talked about,food,things like that. There are some amenities in the 561 area and again I want to say I am strongly opposed to it. Thank you. 562 563 Leah Cook: Hi,thank you for your time, my name is Leah Cook and I live in Cedar Grove as well. I live on Allison Road, 564 I'm 1,000 feet within this proposed project. I am a farmer as well. I am here to say I am strongly opposed to this project 565 for a lot of the reasons Beth just specified. It makes no sense. We've got a Dollar General just over the Caswell line. 566 So to have a Family Dollar and a Dollar Tree, I didn't know it was Family Dollar and Dollar Tree and then the gas station, 567 it makes no sense. It is a waste of space. I am also concerned about the water table in our area, I farm. I sell at 568 Carrboro Farmer's Market and Weaver Street. I am concerned about light pollution as well and I'd like to ask these 569 gentlemen if they truly understand where their food comes from. It doesn't come from Family Dollar. It doesn't come 570 from Dollar Tree its farmers so to answer your question earlier yea you can get canned stuff there, eggs, milk. You can 571 get that at Dollar General,you can get that at the Triangle Grocery Store,you can get a pizza up there if you are in a 572 pinch. You can get gas but you can't get real food so thank you for your time. 573 574 John Thomas: Good evening and thank you for your time. Leah and I actually, she's my partner we farm together and 575 we have about 30 acres on Allison Road and we are very close to this. I am opposed to this. I don't see the value add 576 for the same reasons that have been stated as far as we already have multiple stores in the area that will offer what this 577 offers except for possibly Christmas wrapping. You are 12 miles to Yanceyville from this area, 12 miles to Hillsborough 578 from this area you are 5 miles or so from the store at the corner of Walnut Church Grove Road and 86 which is a pretty 579 nice store it's just been rebuilt that is much nicer than this. We offer jobs,we pay a living wage to our employees,we 580 pay$15 an hour to our employees,they are part time employees, I guarantee you nobody in this store will make$15 an 581 hour probably like the manager. The volume of traffic in the area is already increased and it is already a dangerous 582 intersection with the Dollar General and the way 49 and existing gas station is,to add 1 more thing in that mix and this is 583 going to be almost right on the curve where this gentleman knows there is a Welcome to Cedar Grove sign, it's just going 584 to make it worse. Again, I am opposed to this and don't see the value add and as Leah noted, so what's going to 585 happen is you're going to run farmers out. We also work and what we've done in the past is we work as an incubator 586 farm some of our employees have gone on to farm themselves in the area to produce stuff. We sell, like Leah said,we 587 sell at Carrboro Market,we sell at Weaver Street,we sell at restaurants in the Chapel Hill Carrboro area so I'm against it. 588 589 Mimi Locathetis: My name is Mimi, I live in Cedar Grove as well, neighbors with these guys. I am vehemently opposed 590 to this project. For the reasons stated previously there is no fresh food there,this creates food desert conditions for low 591 income rural communities, it's about 50% higher in these sort of situations. Just the health of our community. I can 592 barely get out of my driveway now with the traffic,this is just going to be one more thing making everything dangerous. 593 I'm glad it was brought up about notifying people in this area for these sorts of projects, 1,000 ft. is not nearly enough for 594 a rural community cause there are plenty of other people who are going to be affected by this that live in this area and 595 they don't even know about it yet. So, hopefully,we'll start talking a little bit more and let them know and if this does go 596 forward and to the Board of Commissioner meeting hopefully there will be a little bit more of an outrage but is not the 597 right project. I can think of a million other things that could go in this space but I'm also worried if this does get rezoned 598 once this fails,what then happens. It's just like opening a Pandora's Box of stuff we don't need. This is one other thing 599 we don't want in our community. 600 601 Celia Rice: I recently bought property in this area, I'm on Route 49 right across from this store is going to be located. 1 602 bought this property as a rural property. I intend to live there, I'm in the process of building a home, I have a neighbor 603 right behind me, he's not within the 1,000 ft. of notification so he was not notified and I would like to state that the 604 distance should be definitely increased for a rural community. I'm also concerned mostly about the traffic. I have 605 property as well in Caswell County and have been driving on 86 for the last 15 years,the traffic has exponentially Approved 12.7.22 606 increased a great deal and I've talked to some of my neighbors about the incidents of accidents in that area and they say 607 that they have definitely increased. I don't personally verify that but I am not surprised that they have said that so my 608 concerns are the change in our rural status and the traffic that was possibly increased along that area and the 609 reduncency of the store there. It just seems a waste of property. It could be used for something else some other time 610 and if you rezone this for this type of store, are you going to rezone something for another type of redundant store? 611 You're kind of setting your standards pretty low and I'm surprised. Thank you. 612 613 Delores Bailey: Are we allowed to ask the citizens questions? 614 615 Adam Beeman: I don't see why not. 616 617 Delores Bailey: Leah,would you come up please. What do you imagine should go there? 618 619 Leah Cook: That's a great question. Honestly, I've lived in Cedar Grove for over 20 years. I've farmed in Cedar Grove 620 for over 20 years and I hadn't really thought about that because I assumed, it had been Mebane Shrubbery, it had been 621 a hot dog stand before that,so I hadn't thought about that prior to this and Mimi had some pretty great suggestions. To 622 give you my honest answer, nothing. Why can't we leave it? Why can't we preserve the integrity of the rural area in very 623 Northern Orange County? I bet most of you all don't live there in the very northern tip of Orange County. It's pretty great 624 up there and we live there because we like it that way. I don't need to have a grocery store right down the road from me. 625 I'm ok with going into Hillsborough once a week. I have to plan a little more, Mark and I have to double up on our 626 errands. Let's go to the bank, let's go to grocery store and we'll hit Home Depot or something like that or we go to 627 Roxboro to Tractor Supply so honestly nothing. Shiver. Mimi had some pretty great thoughts,what about a Vet's office 628 or Tractor Supply what about a real grocery store could we come up with something innovative that will provide food to 629 people in the area aside from canned stuff. 630 631 Lamar Proctor: Planning's recommendation is that this is consistent with the Comprehensive Land Use Plan, Planning 632 believes it's consistent? Is that fair to say? That's the recommendation correct? I'm wondering if Planning could 633 articulate what is consistent given the Comprehensive Land Use Plan and maintaining the rural character and I'm looking 634 through the Table of Permitted Uses and retail is not listed as an Industrial Use and this is a Rural Industrial Activity 635 Node so I don't know if there is anything Planning could add to that or if there was some thinking there or what the 636 thought process was. 637 638 Cy Stober: The General Statute compels us to make 2 findings, 1 is that it is consistent with the Goals and Objectives of 639 our adopted plans, particularly our Comprehensive Plan which is to be maintained to reflect the needs of the County and 640 that it is generally consistent with that Plan so we evaluate the Future Land Use Map,we determine if an amendment is 641 needed to that. We've determined that it is not because it is in the Rural Industrial Activity Node and that the zoning 642 request is consistent with the Plan and per Appendix F,which is the land use matrix which defines the allowable uses 643 within the Future Land Use Map not the zoning district. This is one of the uses that is allowed so that is the basis of the 644 finding of staff plus insuring that the submitted site plan is in compliance with the development standards of the Unified 645 Development Ordinance and should it not be a condition is noted and if the condition appears to produce any safety 646 concerns or intersectionality, negative impacts,to surrounding neighborhood properties that we would not support a 647 waiver or deviation from our standards that would introduce negative impact on surrounding land uses. Otherwise the 648 zoning determination, land use determination in this case is defined largely by the Future Land Use and the Appendix F, 649 allowable uses for that Future Land Use. 650 651 Statler Gilfillen: I'm trying very hard to listen to what they are saying what the objection is, regardless of the industrial 652 zone. I live in the Eno District and not too long ago, I believe it went through the zoning because it is a major retail 653 establishment, the Eno River Farm at St. Mary's and Lawrence Road, it is a major retail establishment right there in my 654 neighborhood that generates a lot of traffic. I took no exception to what was done or any of the zoning on that issue 655 because I felt that was compatible with what was there. If I'm hearing you and the other neighbors,the issue may be not 656 an Eno River Farm but a national chain store coming in to the neighborhood, it's the type of business in retail that is 657 there that you feel is really incompatible with what that neighborhood is. 658 659 Adam Beeman: I think it's the duplicity, its 4/10s of a mile to Dollar General and the gas station there is nothing out there 660 that warrants another store. I don't care if it's a tobacco or vape store or whatever, I don't see any kind of convenience Approved 12.7.22 661 store going there right now. It's just not necessary. It's like in my mind you look at CVS and Walgreens they go across 662 from each other,whatever happened to Rite Aid,we have a bunch of empty Rite Aid buildings because CVS and 663 Walgreens knocked them off and you've got AutoZone and all those guys next door they all want to be next to each 664 other and compete with each other but I just don't see this, it's not necessary there is not enough, they already said it 665 they have to reduce their parking spaces just because their numbers aren't going to hit the full parking spot. It's just not 666 necessary. It's reduncency upon reduncency and if there was a tire shop, heck you've got one down the street, a tire 667 shop,you don't need one of those. There's all sorts of better uses that I think we could put there and they'll hook onto 668 Efland Cedar Grove and run down Efland Cedar Grove to avoid 86 so they don't ever get any further than that and that's 669 what they are counting on. The catch is the out of state traffic running by and I understand the taxes but we turned down 670 Buc-ee's which was printing money and I don't see a Dollar Tree, a Family Dollar, is going to provide that much tax 671 money to justify a building that maybe 5 years down the road is abandoned and it's just sitting there as an eye sore. 1 672 don't know it might thrive who knows, there's too much reduncency there. We don't need a shopping mall up in the top 673 of the County and that's essentially what you're trying to provide is multiple choices. We have choices. 674 675 Statler Gilfillen: Would you like to make a motion one way or the other, I think we're at that point? 676 677 Adam Beeman: No. It's up to you guys, I can say I am against it but that's the only motion that we're at. 678 679 Statler Gilfillen: I think somebody has to do a motion. 680 681 Charity Kirk: Are we done with questions? 682 683 Beth Bronson: Anybody have questions? 684 685 Overlapping conversations 686 687 Adam Beeman: Does anyone else have any questions or concerns? 688 689 Lamar Proctor: Can I make a comment? I asked Planning about this and I'm looking at Appendix F and even if we're 690 trying to be consistent with the Future Land Use Map, this area the red circle is a Rural Industrial Activity Node, this is a 691 retail space which when I look at the Table of Permitted Uses, seems to suggest a zoning designation of LC-1 or NC-2 692 things that would allow for retail establishments. Under Appendix F,the Rural Industrial Activity Node suggests stuff that 693 falls more under 1-1 which is Light Industrial so I don't think that this is consistent with the Future Land Use Map and the 694 Comprehensive Plan because it is a use that would fall more under something that in the Future Land Use Map would be 695 Rural Community Activity Node or Rural Neighborhood Activity Node or a Commercial Transition Activity Node or CITAN 696 area. I don't think it's consistent with the Future Land Use Map and the uses that were anticipated under a Rural Industrial 697 Activity Node that it is cited as in that red circle. 698 699 Adam Beeman: I would say that I would prefer them not to take business away from the Farm and Garden store that just 700 reopened by the dump off of Walnut Grove they sell local Bison, beef, chicken, all sort of meat and fresh produce. That's 701 right down the street from where this proposal is so why would we want to put someone out of business or take people 702 away from that store that just came back after being burnt down and they are providing goods from the community where 703 they are selling local beef and meat and vegetables versus trucked in corn nibbles. 704 705 David Blankfard: Before you make a motion, are there any conditions that would change anybody's opinion? 706 707 Adam Beeman: Not mine. 708 709 Beth Bronson: Is this going to be sold to or is it going to be leased to? 710 711 Overlapping conversations 712 713 Doug Burr: We would be buying the 7 acres so he would still have the remaining. 714 715 Approved 12.7.22 716 MOTION BY Beth Bronson to deny the UDO text amendment and rezoning application for Non-Residential Conditional 717 Zoning based on the finding that the application does not follow the intention of the Future Land Use Map designation 718 within the Comprehensive Plan 2030 via designation of Rural Industrial Activity Node and that it would not be harmonious 719 with the surrounding area or reflect the desires of the community. Seconded by Lamar Proctor. 720 MOTION PASSED 9—2(MARSHALL,BLANKFARD) 721 722 Adam Beeman: Based on that the rezoning is denied. 723 724 725 AGENDA ITEM 9: ADJOURNMENT 726 Meeting was adjourned at 8:48 p.m. 727 728 729 Adam Beeman, Chair