HomeMy WebLinkAboutAgenda - 03-24-20; 12-2 - Information Item - MMC Facilitated Conversation about the Greene Tract - Final Session Notes - February 14, 2020 1
MMC Facilitated Conversation about the Greene Tract
Final Session Notes
February 14, 2020
Session Outcomes
Continue to move forward on agreements about the plan for the Greene Tract by:
1. Enacting communication ground rules for working together.
2. Clarifying common ground.
3. Articulating sticking points.
4. Unpacking what's getting in the way of coming to resolution.
5. Planning for next steps.
Participants
Carrboro:
Lydia Lavelle, Carrboro Mayor
David Andrews, Carrboro Town Manager
Trish McGuire, Carrboro Planning Director
Chapel Hill:
Pam Hemminger, Chapel Hill Mayor
Maurice Jones, Chapel Hill Town Manager
Judy Johnson, Chapel Hill Planning Director
Orange County:
Bonnie Hammersley, Orange County Manager
Travis Myren, Deputy Co Manager
Penny Rich, Chair of County Commissioners, Orange County
Craig Benedict, Orange County Planning Director
John Roberts, Orange County Attorney
Ashley Moncado, Orange County Special Projects Planner
Facilitator
Maggie Chotas, Dispute Settlement Center
Session Notes
Welcome & Introductions
Maggie Chotas welcomed participants, reviewed the goals for the session and highlighted that the
majority of the meeting would be to review the draft Memorandum of Understanding (MOU)
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between all parties. Ms. Chotas reviewed the ground rules, which were previously set by the MMC
group during the meeting on December 18, 2019. The ground rules were confirmed as is.
Ground rules
1. Identify when we are talking personally or from the majority of our Boards.
2. Encourage staff to participate and share, given that they have been valuable context and
insight.
3. Clarify facts along the way, and do not get offended if someone tries to correct
misstatements.
4. Do not take things personally.
5. Share notes back with our Boards.
Next, the group reviewed action steps taken in between the last meeting in December and the
current meeting. Judy Johnson explained that all of the jurisdictions adopted similar resolutions in
mid-late January, which reflected a big effort from everyone in the room plus the two absent
attorneys. There is an Interlocal Agreement has been signed by all boards. The Request for
Proposals (RFP) for the Environmental Assessment has been posted and will be open for
submissions through March 10, 2020. Ms. Johnson emphasized the substantial steps that have
been made Mayor Lavelle recapped that some language was changed with the Interlocal
Agreement, but that after a slight change, all three boards unanimously passed the Interlocal
Agreement.
Mayor Hemminger shared that the staff worked together to develop the Memorandum of
Understanding (MOU) for how they would work together to do the Environmental Assessment. At
the Assembly of Governments meeting in late January, there was good conversation around this
work. Travis Myren said most of the comments from the Assembly of Governments meeting were
reflected in the draft MOU.
Mayor Hemminger highlighted that the attorneys and staff from all three entities met up to start
working on the MOU. John Roberts, attorney from Orange County, took the first draft of the MOU
and the staffs of all three jurisdictions reviewed it. The elected officials are still in the process of
reviewing the document in depth.
Mayor Lavelle explained that some issues were discussed at the Assembly of Governments
meeting, including what would happen if there was an impasse. The attorneys incorporated
possible solutions in the current draft of the MOU.
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Ms. Chotas asked the group to identify the necessary outcomes of their time together in the
session. Chair Rich noted the need to review the MOU collectively and suggested breaking down
the MOU into sections in order to do so.
Mayor Hemminger summarized that the Assembly of Governments asked the group to discuss the
work plan, next steps and timing. She identified the need to come up with common terms,
including what is meant by connectivity. The group generally agreed on the importance of using
common language. Chair Rich asked if we are ready for a work plan? Mayor Hemminger clarified
the goal of establishing a "timeline of steps" and Chair Rich agreed. The group discussed how there
was agreement on the timeline for the Environmental Assessment, but there is uncertainty around
what happens after that. A timeline of steps would spell out the action items. Mr. Roberts noted
the MOU includes the statement "staffs will develop a work plan that includes a decision point
timeline regarding development of the property." Mayor Hemminger wondered if a better term
was framework. Chair Rich noted we want something our boards can look at to see what we can
accomplish.
Ms. Johnson expressed that staff could give the "high level" pieces of a work plan and possibly
share them at the next meeting of the MMC.
Chair Rich, speaking for herself and she thought for her board, shared the hope that the MOU can
be signed by June because boards take a break after that and then it will be budget season. Mayor
Lavelle concurred that the Carrboro board should be able to sign by June. Mayor Hemminger
expressed that Chapel Hill may not be able to commit to signing within that timeframe due to other
big projects. Maurice Jones said they would be in a better position to know if the June timeframe
could work after more conversations.
Chair Rich emphasized the nature of the MOU was to describe how the group moves forward or
not. Mayor Lavelle said she wanted to learn more about what would be controversial within the
MOU.
Diving into the Memo of Understanding
Ms. Chotas proposed the process to review the MOU, as follows: consider section by section, with
a focus on understanding what's there, clarifying terms and identifying further questions. The
group will highlight where they have agreement. If there are things that can be resolved quickly,
the group will resolve them. For those areas where they don't have agreement, they will develop a
list of areas to address at future meetings. The group agreed to the proposed approach.
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Mr. Roberts explained that all of the attorneys agreed that the initial MOU document provides a
strong framework for the working relationship of the parties. Speaking for the three attorneys, Mr.
Roberts noted the document could be adopted now, highlighting that it has "some teeth" in case
there's any reluctance and gets all parties to the same place within a two year timeframe.
MOU Whereas Statements
Chair Rich focused on the language of the sixth "whereas" statement, which states: "WHEREAS,
the Parties agree that some portion of the Property should be dedicated to providing mixed
income housing and other uses." Chair Rich was concerned this statement did not adequately
stress the importance of affordable housing, noting the County Commissioners would not be
satisfied with the level of importance placed on affordable housing in the current draft. Chair Rich
asked if there was a way to highlight affordable housing more. Mr. Roberts responded the original
document said "affordable housing" throughout, and this language was changed recently. He
asked for further explanation from others who were part of making the change.
Ms. Johnson noted there was an interest in broadening the language from "affordable housing" to
"mixed income" because of the varying levels of affordable housing. The term "mixed use" is
problematic because it connotes something that isn't intended.
Mayor Hemminger wondered if the term "affordable housing" could be added so that the
document would read "affordable housing, mixed income and other uses." She agreed with Chair
Rich that someone picking up the current draft MOU wouldn't understand that affordable housing
is included in mixed income. Chair Rich confirmed the description should "affordable housing,
mixed income and other uses."
Mayor Lavelle raised a question about the next "whereas" statement, which reads, "WHEREAS,
the Parties agree that some portion of the Property should be reserved for a future school site and
public recreational facility site." Mayor Lavelle asked if this language was meant to include a public
recreation site in addition to the school or if the "recreational facility site" was part of the school.
Ashley Moncado responded there were two separate entities, including a school and an additional
recreational site. Mayor Lavelle asked about the public park and whether it would be there even if
the school was not there. Ms. Moncado explained it was to be there even if there wasn't a school.
Mr. Benedict confirmed acreage was designated for a public park even without a school. Ms.
McGuire said that it was part of the range of uses discussed at a previous Assembly of
Governments meeting two years ago, noting the change was requested following the
Environmental Scan. She stated the minutes from the Assembly of Governments meeting would
need to be checked to confirm. Mayor Lavelle expressed surprise a recreational site would be
there even without a school, given that over the years she only heard of the interests for open
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space, affordable housing and a school. Mr. Benedict said the community wanted the possibility
of a park even if the school didn't happen. Mayor Lavelle asked who would develop programs if
there were soccer fields, ball fields. Would that programming fall to Chapel Hill, Carrboro or
Orange County? Ms. McGuire emphasized it was an overarching statement to say there had been
an identification for what the space would be used for, noting the interest in the amount of space
was the extent of the evaluation.
Mayor Lavelle said a public recreational facilities separate from future school site public school
would need to be further discussed by the Carrboro board to determine if it is apriority for
Carrboro.
Mayor Hemminger said the word "facility" was problematic because it implied a building of some
sort and could instead be changed to "public recreation area."
Ms. Lavelle explained Carrboro has an interest in having a school in that space, but if there is not a
school, Carrboro may not have an interest in building a park separate from a school. Mr. Andrews
agreed Carrboro has not explicitly discussed having a park in that space, separate from the school.
Mr. Benedict noted there is an interest in having a recreational area accessible to the public,
outside of a school. The community would value a dual use space for community and school.
Chair Rich agreed she did not recall having a conversation around having a park separate from a
school. Mr. Myren clarified if everyone was committed to the school, there wasn't a need to have
a discussion about an option that doesn't include a school. Ms. Hammersley emphasized the
priority is in ensuring the school site has the appropriate amount of acreage.
Mr. Myren shared, based on the meeting with the school administration, it's not clear they would
allow it to be accessible publicly. Mayor Hemminger noted the intergovernmental park work
group established guidelines that said the public has the right to use these spaces, but there are
caveats. High school facilities cannot be shared spaces because of the level of use on those
buildings, but elementary schools are more easily accessible by the public and make great
partnerships. Neighborhoods typically have access to elementary schools after hours, and this
space would be no different.
The group affirmed their wish that there will not be a recreational facility if there is no school on
the site. Mayor Hemminger noted Chapel Hill does require recreational spaces when new housing
is developed, so perhaps the developer would be required to add in a recreational site. Chair Rich
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emphasized the importance of defining the terms "park" and "recreational space," elaborating the
space should be open fields for open use, and that would be considered a "park."
MOU Section 1:Term and Termination
Mr. Roberts provided a synopsis of Section 1 as an overview of term and termination, giving each
party a way out of the contract. It sets out a two-year term and five five-year renewals, assuming
that anything built there will be completed within a total time of 27 years.
Mr. Roberts clarified that, as it written, any party may withdraw from the MOU agreement
without penalty by giving 60-day notice to the other parties. Parties may withdraw from the
agreement at any time, even if development has already started.
Mr. Benedict noted the developer agreement would dominate at some point in the future. The
agreement with the developer would set forth the parameters for what can happen and then the
developer would agree before the land is handed off. That agreement would be more binding on
the parties than the MOU because it's more of a zoning of the property.
Mayor Hemminger asked to change the language to include a requirement for "written notice" to
withdrawal. Mr. Roberts responded that a different section of the MOU requires that any notice
be written notice.
Section 2: Responsibilities of the Parties
Mr. Roberts gave an overview of this section which spells out what the parties will be doing during
the first 18 months of this agreement.
Mayor Hemminger asked for clarification on content contained within the letter "i" which states
that the parties will be "jointly conducting all public outreach and conducting no individual public
outreach regarding the Property." Mr. Roberts explained the term "public outreach" is more
clearly defined in Section 3 of the document, which outlines that all "public engagement" will be
jointly conducted with staff present from Chapel Hill, Orange County and Carrboro and a joint
public hearing with the elected boards. Conducting individual meetings would not be considered
"public engagement," but official public engagement would be jointly conducted with staff and
elected officials. Mayor Lavelle asked if"engagement" was the same thing as "outreach." Mr.
Roberts noted that the difference between "engagement" and "outreach" can be more clearly
defined. Mr. Myren noted in "i" it could be "public engagement" instead of"public outreach."
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Chair Rich emphasized the importance of using common language and why it's important to all be
together in one room so half of the neighbors aren't hearing one thing and the other half
something else.
Mayor Hemminger asked for more information about letter "k" which states that the parties will
be "[r]eaching Final Determinations on the ultimate uses of the Property within 18 months of the
execution of this Agreement." She noted her concern that the group will not know all of the uses
within 18 months. Mr. Roberts explained "final determination" is defined in Section 4, and the
boards will need to determine the varying uses of the property and vote on them within the two-
year term. If the boards haven't done that within 18 months, that's because of disputes and that's
when the disputes process would kick it.
Ms. Johnson stated in earlier conversations there was an area designated as land-banked. She
acknowledged things may change over the course of the time period, and 18 months is not a long
time to determine all of the uses for the land. How do we keep a door open, given things change?
Ms. Hammersley asked if land-banking could be a determination?
Mr. Roberts affirmed if the three boards determine a site it land-banked, it can be.
The group generally agreed land-banking could be a determination, but the designation couldn't
be used unintentionally. There may be an undetermined use for one section of the land, and that
would be sufficient provided all three groups agreed to determine the land use at a future point.
Chair Rich noted there should be a difference between what is land-banked and what the group is
not yet able to determine. Ms. Hammersley said determining criteria for land-banking is a good
next step. Mr. Roberts clarified that if one party wants a section of the land land-banked, and the
other parties disagree, then the "dispute" clause of the contract would be triggered. However, if
all parties agree they do not know how the land will be used, then the parties would be in
agreement and the "dispute" clause would not be implicated.
Ms. McGuire shared that if the group knows that housing is the priority, that could be expressed
as the group's intention at this point. She further explained that the group could acknowledge the
process for changing the intention of the land at a future point. The group agreed to further define
the term "use" in this document. Mr. Benedict clarified the general use categories were better
defined when they did the map a year ago.
Section 3: Public Participation and Decision-Making
Mr. Roberts gave an overview of this section, highlighting the draft proposes the group have six
joint staff meetings and a joint public hearing at the first Assembly of Governments in 2021.
Ms. Johnson provided context from when staff met. There was an interest moving some language
from the MOU into the work plan document—specifically, keep the first sentence and the last
sentence in that paragraph, but move the details to the work plan. Mayor Hemminger and Mayor
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Lavelle agreed it seemed like an unnecessary level of specificity to determine the number of
meetings in the MOU.
Public Engagement
Mayor Hemminger asked for clarification around what a 'joint public hearing" entails, wondering
if it means just receiving input and not responding. Chair Rich replied that a public hearing gives
the public a chance to speak and it is not an opportunity for elected officials and staff to respond.
The group agreed a 'joint public hearing" is a chance for the public to speak and for elected
officials and staff to hear the public. Staff may answer basic questions from the public but no
voting or decisions will take place at that public hearing.
The group discussed the difference between this MOU document and a more detailed work plan.
Ms. McGuire suggested some specifics could be helpful, for example setting up a parameter for
the number of public engagement sessions. She noted general parameters might be helpful for
how we implement at this stage.
Chair Rich asked when the groups will share the draft MOU and notes from this meeting with their
respective boards. Mayor Lavelle suggested including the minutes to this meeting along with the
current MOU draft as a clean copy. The group decided to send the current clean draft of the MOU
(without changes from current meeting incorporated), along with the notes from this meeting, to
their respective boards via email.
The attorneys will simultaneously implement changes into MOU from this meeting of the MMC
and that draft will come to the next MMC meeting.
Mixed Income Housing and other uses
Mayor Hemminger suggested adding the phrase "affordable housing" to this section. Chair Rich
noted the term "affordable housing" should be included throughout the entire document.
Mr. Roberts noted a sentence could be added stating, "other uses may include land banking" or
"other future uses may include land banking."
Mr. Andrews the last sentence include "developer(s)" instead of "developer" given the possibility
of multiple developers of the site.
School Site and Public Recreational Facility Site
Mayors Hemminger and Lavelle recommended taking out the term "facility" in this section title, so
it would instead read "School Site and Public Recreation."
Chair Rich expressed an interest in reviewing the standards for a school site for efficiency. Mayor
Hemminger mentioned the standard is based on a DPI-arrived number that is per child. Chair Rich
noted for the sake of efficiency, the group discussed including "approximately 16 acres" for the
school site, instead of stating the school site in terms of a minimum.
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The group discussed changing the title of this section to include the word "with" instead of "and"
so it would read "School Site with Public Recreation."
Joint Preserve
Mr. Roberts noted a similarity to the preceding paragraphs. Mr. Benedict noted connectivity was
tried to environmental, vehicular and pedestrian. Chair Rich requested adding the term "public
transportation" into the connectivity plan because at some point might have to change bus routes.
Mayor Hemminger suggested changing this section to read the parties will "work together to draft
connectivity plans" as opposed to "work together to draft a connectivity plan."
Ms. McGuire asked if it would be helpful to add the word "infrastructure" here given the concept
of utilities. The group discussed the term "utilities" as opposed to "infrastructure," and the term
"public utilities." Connectivity plans including utilities, vehicular, bicycles and pedestrian.
Ultimately, the group decided the term "utilities" was sufficient, and it was not necessary to
include "public."
Section 4: Final Determination
Mayor Lavelle noted the second sentence was awkward and did not flow; it's missing a word or
two. The group discussed fixing this second sentence for the next draft of this document.
Section 5: Disputes
Mayor Lavelle noted that this section explains what the group discussed at the Assembly of
Governments. If there is a dispute, we try to talk and resolve it, can request mediation. Mayor
Hemminger asked for clarification about mediation. Do you request it and they have to come?
Mr. Roberts explained that the first section discussed interim minor types of disputes where a
mediation would be time consuming. If everybody doesn't agree you need a mediation, you don't
have a mediation. The second paragraph emphasizes the need for a mandatory mediation for
major disagreements at the end of the 18-month period or another selected time period. Mayor
Lavelle recommended the clarification: "During the first 18 months" this is what happens...
Mr. Roberts explained a minor dispute could be resolved by a majority vote of the boards, and if
the parties agree to a mediation, that would be an option. Agreement was made to change the
document to read "the majority vote as provided below"not "above."
Mr. Roberts explained divesture as when one party wants to sell their interest and neither of the
other two parties wants to buy the interest, then the selling party would have to comply with
North Carolina property sales law. Partition is when you want your interest separated, but the
deed prohibits doing that, the party may need to go to Court to have it separated.
Ms. McGuire explained the need for different approaches to minor or major approaches. They
needed a way to resolve minor disputes before the 18-month period.
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Mr. Roberts reiterated the group can negotiate and if there is a disagreement, the governing
boards can vote by majority vote, unless all of the governing boards agree to mediate the dispute.
After 18 months, everyone must go to mediation. Mayor Hemminger noted she would like to see
the group take a stab at mediation even for minor disputes because there might be common
ground —it might not be as big as assumed. Mayor Lavelle noted there might be a step between
formal mediation such as facilitation. Mr. Roberts noted facilitation could be included in the 60-
day timeframe. The group agreed to discuss this further at a later point. Ms. Johnson noted it
would be helpful to run through a topic and imagine what would happen if they do not agree on
the headwater preserves location, for example.
Summarized next steps
Participants clarified the next steps coming out of the session.
Topic ` Action Steps
1. Minutes from the • Ms. Chotas will deliver draft notes to the group by end-of-day
meeting February 28, 2020.
• Group members will have until March 4 at 5 pm to provide
clarifications.
• The final draft of the notes will be distributed by March 6.
2. Send meeting notes and . Each municipality will send notes of this meeting with the
MOU draft to Boards current (clean) draft of the MOU to their respective boards
via email — not to be placed on a board agenda.
• Individual board members' questions and comments will be
addressed at the next meeting of the MMC group.
3. Develop the next draft • Attorneys develop next draft of the MOU based on input
of the MOU from the February 14 meeting.
• The MMC group discusses the draft and brings input from
individual board members to their meeting on April 3.
• Attorneys will revise MOU based on input from the April 3rd
meeting. The resulting draft of the MOU will be distributed to
all three boards for formal review and feedback.
4. Reconvene the group on . The group will come back together in a facilitated session on
Friday, April 3, 2020. Friday, April 3, 2020, 10:30-noon, at the Chapel Hill Public
Library.
• The attorneys will be included in scheduling this meeting.
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Evaluating the session
The facilitator asked participants to reflect on what worked well about this session and what they would
like to see changed for the next one.
What worked well What to change for the next session
- Fridays are good for meetings. - Include attorneys on the mailing list to
- Helpful to go through MOU section by schedule meetings.
section.
- The facilitation of the conversation.
- Hearing from staff about why things were
in the MOU the way they were.
L
Cross conversation was fruitful.
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Facilitated Conversation about the Greene Tract
Summary of Key Topics Discussed & Questions Raised on MOU Document
February 14, 2020
Section of MOU Document Changes needed & Questions to address
Whereas Statements • Include the term "affordable housing"throughout
• Delete "facility" change to "Public recreational site"
• Define "use"
Section 1: Term & Termination
Section 2: Responsibilities of • "Public engagement" (not outreach)
the Parties
Section 3: Public Participation Public Engagement
& Decision Making
• Move sentences in between first and third to last/to work
plan
• Define joint public hearing as input session from public—
no voting, no decisions
• Include general parameters to inform work plan
Mixed Income Housing
• Add "affordable housing" throughout
• Other"uses" may include "land-banking for future use"
• Developer(s)
School Site with Public Recreation
• With a school of approximately 16 acres
Connectivity
• Add "public transportation"
• Connectivity plans (no "a")
Section 4: Final Determination • Second sentence needs to be fixed
Section 5• Disputes • Clarify with the first paragraph—"in the first 18 months
this is what happens..."
• Majority vote below
• Talk more about minor disputes—consider including
facilitation to try to find common ground
• Walk through examples at next MMC meeting