HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 02-11-2020 Work Session 1
APPROVED 3/10/2020
MINUTES
BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
WORK SESSION
February 11, 2020
7:00 p.m.
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a work session on Tuesday, February 11,
2020 at 7:00 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, N.C.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Rich and Commissioners Jamezetta Bedford,
Mark Dorosin, Sally Greene, Earl McKee, Mark Marcoplos, and Renee Price
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT:
COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Bonnie Hammersley, Deputy County Manager
Travis Myren and Clerk to the Board Donna Baker (All other staff members will be identified
appropriately below)
Chair Rich called the meeting to order at 7:00 p.m.
Chair Rich said the Board needs to add a closed session at the end of tonight's meeting.
A motion was made by Commissioner Price, seconded by Commissioner Bedford to add
a closed session for the purpose of: Pursuant to 143-318.11(a)(3) To consult with an attorney
employed or retained by the public body in order to preserve the attorney-client privilege
between the attorney and the public body.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Chair Rich said the Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) has no regular agenda
items on the 2/18 meeting, and it has been suggested that the BOCC cancel the February 18tn
meeting. She said there are two time sensitive items (Spay/Neuter Day Proclamation and
Proposed Consent and Subordination Agreement to Provide Greenfield Commons Access to
and Use of Dumpster Facilities Located at Greenfield), and she asked if the Board would be
amendable to adding those two items to this evening's agenda. She asked if John Roberts
would share his opinion.
John Roberts said if there are decision items, it would be best to defer since no public
notice was given of the changes.
Greg Wilder, Manager's office, said the housing item has a closing scheduled and if it
not addressed this evening, or on February 18, this item would not be able to come before the
BOCC until the March10, which would be after the already scheduled closing.
John Roberts said the BOCC can add to tonight's meeting, but has not typically made
these types of changes, due to the lack of public awareness.
Commissioner McKee said he would object. He said there is a standing practice of two
Board of County Commissioners business meetings per month, and there is an expectation that
the public is notified of the Board's agendas. He said it would be a very small inconvenience to
hold the February 18t" meeting.
Chair Rich said the Board would only be coming on the 18t" to vote for one thing, and
she would prefer to move the item to the March 10t" meeting.
Commissioner Bedford asked if the item could be added to the February 25t"joint
meeting with the schools.
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Chair Rich said there will not be any time.
Commissioner Bedford said 10 minutes could be added.
Commissioner Price agreed with Commissioner Bedford, and said the item cannot wait
until March, due to it being time sensitive. She said she would like to find a compromise.
Commissioner Dorosin arrived at 7:05 p.m.
Commissioner Bedford asked if it is a consent agenda item, because, if so, it will be very
brief.
Chair Rich said this item is a consent agenda item for someone to use a dumpster. She
said the BOCC does not typically discuss consent agendas during joint meetings with the
schools.
Bonnie Hammersley said this is an item from the Housing Department, and the closing
is scheduled for February 20th.
Emila Harris, Housing Director, said this item is allowing access to a dumpster between
two properties: Greenfield Place and Greenfield Commons. She said the County has HOME
funds in Greenfield Place, and needs to grant an easement for Greenfield Commons, a senior
property, to allow for use of the dumpster. She said all of the Greenfield Place investors have
to subordinate their loans, so that the easement will be still be allowed in the case of a
foreclosure.
Chair Rich said it is senseless for the BOCC to come in for one item.
Commissioner McKee said the BOCC gets paid to be Commissioners, and there are
only two meetings per month for business to be conducted. He said this item should be
considered in a formal meeting.
Commissioner Marcoplos asked if there is a level of controversy around this issue.
John Roberts said none is expected, but the BOCC rules do allow the Board to add
items to agendas. He said the only difference here is that this item was already planned for
another agenda. He said public notice is the only issue in question, but public notice is not
legally required for these items.
Commissioner Greene asked if the time sensitivity of the matter could be clarified.
Emila Harris said the senior property needs to close, and cannot do so until the consent
to subordinate occurs. She said all other funders have already consented to the subordination,
and are waiting on the County.
Commissioner Greene said she appreciates Commissioner McKee's point, but since
John Roberts said there is no legal issue, she would be in favor of proceeding this evening.
Commissioner Dorosin clarified that one property is affordable.
Emila Harris said one is senior housing.
Commissioner Dorosin clarified that it is affordable senior housing.
Emila Harris said yes.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if the County provides support for both of these
properties.
Emila Harris said just one property.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if both properties provide affordable housing.
Emila Harris said yes.
Commissioner Dorosin said he is in favor of moving forward tonight, as it is the most
efficient option.
Commissioner Bedford asked if it is possible to have a call in meeting, with 48 hours
notice to the public, and four Commissioners on the call.
John Roberts said call in meetings are allowed by law, but this board does not have any
procedures addressing call in meetings and the BOCC would need to vote to set aside the rules
of procedure for that purpose.
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Commissioner Marcoplos clarified that all other entities have signed off on this item,
without any controversy.
Emila Harris said all have signed, without controversy.
Commissioner Marcoplos said those involved seem to need and want this taken care of
as soon as possible and he is favor of getting it done this evening.
Commissioner Dorosin said addressing this item tonight is not against the rules, or
without precedence.
John Roberts said it is just a matter of whether the Board wants to add this to the
agenda.
Commissioner McKee said his comment has nothing to do with being for or against any
rules, but rather his comment is meant to show that the 18th is just as expedient as tonight, and
the BOCC sits as a body twice a month, and voting tonight is simply being done for the
Commissioners' convenience, which should not be the priority. He said he will not vote in favor
of this, as he is well paid to serve in the role of Commissioner, and takes the obligation
seriously. He said just because there has been no controversy thus far is irrelevant. He said
the public may wish to say something at the BOCC meeting, but will not have the chance to do
so if the meeting does not occur.
Commissioner Price asked if the other entities, involved with this item, allowed for public
comment.
Emila Harris said she does not know if the Town of Chapel Hill allowed for public
comment, but the Town did sign off on the item.
A motion was made by Commissioner Marcoplos, seconded by Commissioner Dorosin
to cancel the February 18th BOCC Business meeting.
VOTE: Ayes, 5 (Chair Rich, Commissioner Marcoplos, Commissioner Price,
Commissioner Greene, Commissioner Dorosin); Nays, 2 (Commissioner McKee and
Commissioner Bedford)
A motion was made by Commissioner Greene, seconded by Commissioner Dorosin to
add the housing item, Proposed Consent and Subordination Agreement to Provide Greenfield
Commons Access to and Use of Dumpster Facilities Located at Greenfield, to the agenda
tonight.
VOTE: Ayes, 5 (Chair Rich, Commissioner Marcoplos, Commissioner Price,
Commissioner Greene, Commissioner Dorosin); Nays, 2 (Commissioner McKee and
Commissioner Bedford)
Chair Rich said that James Williams was recently appointed by the Governor to the
Martin Luther King (MLK) Jr. Commission, and she would like to swear him in tonight at this
meeting. She asked if the Board was amendable to this swearing in.
The Board agreed by consensus to add this item to the agenda.
James Williams said his appointment to the MLK Jr. Commission was made by
Governor Cooper to represent Orange County. He said he is honored to be appointed, as MLK
had an impact on him personally.
Commissioner Dorosin said he is excited about this, and it is a great accolade for James
Williams. He thanks James Williams for his past, present, and future efforts around racial
justice and racial equality.
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James Williams said he gave thought as to who should swear him in. He said about 2
years ago the Board of County Commissioners recognized him for the work he has does in the
cause justice, which meant a lot to him.
Chair Rich swore James Williams in.
John Roberts asked if the Board would add another reason to go into closed session:
[N.C.G.S. 143-318.11(a)(5)]: To establish or instruct the staff or agent concerning the
negotiation of the price and terms of a contract concerning the acquisition of real property.
A motion was made by Commissioner Price, seconded by Commissioner McKee to add
another closed session item for the purpose of:
[N.C.G.S. 143-318.11(a)(5)]: To establish or instruct the staff or agent concerning the
negotiation of the price and terms of a contract concerning the acquisition of real property.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Chair Rich asked if the Board would like to take a few minutes to review the Housing
item, so that it can be addressed, and staff can go home.
The Board agreed.
Addition to the Agenda:
*Proposed Consent and Subordination Agreement to Provide Greenfield Commons
Access to and Use of Dumpster Facilities Located at Greenfield
The Board will consider authorizing the Chair to sign a Consent and Subordination Agreement
to provide Greenfield Commons access to and us of dumpster facilities located at Greenfield
Place.
BACKGROUND: The County allocated $154,500 in FY 2015-16 HOME funds to the Downtown
Housing Improvement Corporation, Inc. (DHIC) to support the new construction of Greenfield
Place, a development of 80 apartment homes for households at less than 60% AMI. Greenfield
Workforce Housing, LLC, owner of Greenfield Place, granted Orange County a deed of trust on
the property.
DHIC has developed a second affordable multifamily property, Greenfield Commons, adjacent
to Greenfield Place. In order to close on its permanent loan for Greenfield Commons,
Greenfield Senior Housing, LLC, owner of Greenfield Commons, needs the County to
subordinate its deed of trust to an easement allowing access to dumpster facilities located just
to the south of the common property line between the two developments, entirely on the
Greenfield Place development. The subordination ensures the easement will continue to exist
were the County to foreclose on its deed of trust.
The dumpster facilities are located just to the south of the common property line between the
two developments, entirely on the Greenfield Place development. The dumpster pad and
facilities are identified on the attached survey as "Concrete Dumpster Pad and Enclosure".
The easement agreement between Greenfield Workforce Housing, LLC, as grantor, and
Greenfield Senior Housing, LLC as grantee: provides Greenfield Commons with access to and
use of the dumpster facilities and provides for the cost sharing of servicing and maintenance of
the facilities between Greenfield Place and Greenfield Commons.
The attached Consent and Subordination Agreement affirms the County's consent to the
easement granted by Greenfield Workforce Housing, LLC, and the subordination of its
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respective deed of trust to the easement. The subordination ensures that the easement will
continue to exist were the County to foreclose on its deed of trust. The Town of Chapel Hill,
North Carolina Housing Finance Agency, DHIC, and State Employees' Credit Union have all
signed similar Consent and Subordination Agreements.
Commissioner Marcoplos clarified that all necessary parties have agreed to this item.
Emila Harris said yes.
Commissioner Price clarified that everything is on Greenfield property.
Emila Harris answered yes.
A motion was made by Commissioner Marcoplos, seconded by Commissioner Price to
authorize the Chair to sign a Consent and Subordination Agreement to provide Greenfield
Commons access to and us of dumpster facilities located at Greenfield Place.
Commissioner Dorosin said he appreciated Commissioner McKee's concerns about the
process, but sees this as an example of elevating process over substance, had the Board
chosen to delay this vote.
Commissioner Dorosin said he respectfully disagrees with Commissioner McKee that
the Board is not working hard by moving this vote. He said this characterization is unfair, and
the BOCC has many meetings in the upcoming months, and moving this vote to this evening, is
in no way shirking the Board's responsibilities.
Commissioner McKee said he referred to two formal meetings a month, not any/all
meetings. He said his personal opinion is that the Commissioners are well paid to attend every
meeting that is on the approved calendar, of which the public is aware and expecting. He said
the public has the opportunity to speak at business meetings to any item, not just this one, and
by removing the meeting the Board removes the opportunity for public discourse.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
1. Update on Schools Joint Action Committee Related to Class Sizes and Pre-K
BACKGROUND: The State of North Carolina enacted legislation in 2017 resulting in a
decrease in class size averages from 1:20 to 1:17 for kindergarten to third grade for the 2018-
2019 school year. Due to significant statewide ramifications as a result of the reduced class
size averages, the North Carolina General Assembly approved House Bill 90, which allows for a
phasing-in process to address the decrease in class size averages over the next four years.
Based on House Bill 90, average class sizes for kindergarten to third grade will be phased-in as
provided below:
In January 2018, due to impacts anticipated to elementary school capacity resulting from these
reductions, the Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance Technical Advisory Committee
(SAPFOTAC) identified the need for the Schools Joint Action Committee (SJAC) to meet in
order to discuss options and determine how to implement the school capacity changes.
Schools Joint Action Committee (SJAC)
Based on the adopted SAPFO Memoranda of Understanding, school building capacity shall be
determined by reference to state guidelines and school district guidelines and by a joint action
of the School Boards and Orange County Board of Commissioners. The SJAC is comprised of
elected officials from the Orange County Board of Education, Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools
Board of Education, and Orange County Board of Commissioners. Appointed members include:
• Rani Dasi, Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools Board of Education
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• Dr. Stephen Halkiotis, Orange County Board of Education
• Penny Rich, Orange County Board of Commissioners
Changes in Class Size Ratios
The SJAC has conducted three meetings to review impacts resulting from changes in class size
and options before determining how to implement elementary school class size reductions for
SAPFO purposes.
January 31, 2019
• Reviewed changes in class size ratios outlined in House Bills 13 and 90.
March 8, 2019
• Reviewed student projections and potential impacts resulting from changes in class size
ratios. Student projections reviewed at this meeting included the 2019 SAPFOTAC 10-
year projections. No capacity needs were identified in the 10-year period based on
existing class size (1:20) and student membership and capacity numbers received from
the schools in November 2018.
• SJAC requested revised projections illustrating the impacts from the phasing-in of class
size changes over the next three years.
• Proposed and discussed various options to implement class size changes and
requested staff to draft summary report outlining and detailing options for further
analysis.
April 10, 2019
• To determine future impacts related to changes in class size ratios and assist the SJAC
with making a recommendation to implement changes in class size, school staff
completed updated classroom and capacity calculations prior to the April SJAC meeting.
During this process, it was discovered that updated classroom capacity numbers
provided from school staff were not consistent with November 15, 2018 school capacity
numbers submitted in order to draft 10-year student projection sheets and the 2019
SAPFOTAC Annual Report. School capacity numbers provided were higher than those
received in November 2018. One reason for the discrepancy may be due to classrooms
being utilized for Pre-K not being counted in the total elementary school capacity.
o Based on the existing SAPFO Memoranda of Understanding, capacity
(classrooms) being utilized for Pre-K must be included in the total elementary
school capacity number collected every November for the drafting of the annual
SAPFOTAC Report. Adopted MOUs do not allow for Pre-K student membership
to be included in the total elementary student membership numbers collected
every November. Jointly agreed to School Construction standards from 1996 and
2007 included the square footage of these spaces as if used by K— 5 grade
levels. School Construction standards include classroom and capacity standards
for grades K— 5, flex classroom space, and Special/Exceptional/Speech
Language classes.
• Following this finding, 10-year projections were drafted utilizing the April 2019 numbers.
These projections showed the following school capacity needs in the 10-year projection
period:
o OCS — No capacity needs.
o CHCCS — Capacity needed 2026-27 school year.
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• SJAC also reviewed options to implement class size changes for SAPFO purposes. Ten
options were proposed and analyzed. Following elimination of seven options, the three
options still being explored are listed below:
o Suspend the Certificate of Adequate Public Schools (CAPS) test for the
elementary school level for a specified period of time (short-term solution)
o Discontinue the Certificate of Adequate Public Schools (CAPS) test for both
districts. (short-term solution)
o Fund the construction of a "school swing space" (mid-term solution)
Pre-K
As a result of the findings at the April 10 SJAC meeting, school representatives identified
concerns with Pre-K classroom capacities being included in total elementary school capacity
numbers and whether a review of the existing MOUs is warranted to exclude the square
footage of Pre-K classrooms in total school capacity numbers.
Additional 10-year projections were drafted utilizing the April 2019 numbers, but excluding Pre-
K classroom capacity to determine impacts from class size changes. When Pre-K classroom
capacities are excluded, the impacts from reductions in class size is worsened at the
elementary school level. These projections showed the following school capacity needs in the
10-year projection period:
• OCS — Capacity needed 2024-25 school year
• CHCCS — Capacity needed 2021-22 school year
This information was presented at the Schools Collaboration meeting on October 18, 2019. A
SJAC update, which included impacts from changes in class size and Pre-K, was provided to
Chapel Hill — Carrboro City Schools on December 5, 2019 and Orange County Schools on
December 9, 2019.
Orange County and school staff continue to analyze school capacity numbers to determine the
most accurate count for use by the SJAC and School Boards to make an informed and final
recommendation to implement class size changes.
Craig Benedict, Planning Director, made the following PowerPoint presentation:
Item 1
School Joint Action Committee (SJAC) Update
— Changes in Class Size and Pre-K Impacts
Background
• Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance (SAPFO)
o Outlines criteria for maintaining a two part system including:
■ Capital Improvement Plan (CIP) linked to the needs identified by student
projections and available capacity
■ Issuing Certificate of Adequate Public Schools (CAPS) for new residential
developments
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o Purpose is to ensure that new residential growth within the county occurs at a
pace that allows the County and school districts to provide adequate school
facilities to serve students from the new developments.
o Building capacity shall be determined by a joint action of the School Boards and
Orange County Board of Commissioners.
■ Includes changes in class size ratios
Purpose
• The SJAC is a short-term committee comprised of elected officials from the Chapel Hill-
Carrboro City Schools Board of Education, Orange County Board of Education, and
Orange County Board of Commissioners. Appointed members include:
o Rani Dasi, Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools Board of Education
o Dr. Stephen Halkiotis, Orange County Board of Education
o Penny Rich, Orange County Board of Commissioners
• SJAC also includes staff support from Orange County Managers Office, Orange County
Planning Department, Orange County Schools, and Chapel Hill — Carrboro City Schools
• To discuss legislative implications (i.e. class size impacts to school capacity) for
inclusion into the Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance (SAPFO) projections
and provide recommendations on how/when to implement.
Background
• SJAC have conducted three meetings to review impacts and options before determining
how to implement elementary school class size reductions for SAPFO purposes.
o January 31 — Reviewed changes in class size ratios outlined in House Bills 13
and 90
o March 8 — Reviewed student projections and potential impacts resulting from
changes in class size ratios
o April 10 — Reviewed implementation options
■ Identified concerns with Pre-K classroom capacities being included in
total elementary school capacity numbers. If coupled with the actual Pre-
K use of school space (which is not part of the SAPFO capacity standard)
the problem is worsened.
Student Capacity and Projections (chart)
Commissioner Dorosin asked if the projections are based in anything in particular.
Craig Benedict said staff looks at the enrollment for past years, and projects those
numbers forwards. He said in the ten year cohort projection, staff goes back 10 years and sees
how kindergarten graduates to first, first to second, etc. He said three and five year cohorts
have a smaller picture. He said if there is a major spike in a three year period, the projection
would show it a lot faster. He said the other two projections are mathematical and linear, and it
takes past history into the future. He said the MOU requires the numbers to be averaged to
create a muted model.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if this process takes the rise in charter schools into
account, in the Orange County School (OCS) system, in particular. He asked if it also takes
into account what is on the drawing board, due to developments in Hillsborough.
Craig Benedict said it does not account for the enrollment within the charter schools, but
only the traditional public schools.
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Commissioner Dorosin said children are leaving to go to charter schools, and the actual
enrollment in the school system is impacted, and asked if this is accounted for.
Craig Benedict said yes, and the projections of development in the area would probably
show under other circumstances, without charter schools, a higher enrollment. He said both
school districts show less than would appear under normal circumstances; therefore, the
projections of growth are more muted moving into future years.
Commissioner Dorosin said that answer does not account for expansion of charter
schools (from K-8 to K-12), which would have an impact that is not accounted for looking
backwards.
Craig Benedict said that is correct. He said that shows up in those cohort projections.
Craig Benedict said staff acknowledges charter school and pre-K enrollment in the
annual SAPFO report, but this is a sidebar to the model and the MOU as written.
Commissioner Marcoplos said after middle schools, there is an influx of charter schools
students into the high schools.
Craig Benedict said that does show up, and staff can plot out the entire high school
enrollment and see how it has changed over the years. He said middle schools show higher
graduation rates, between 8th and 9th grades, which reflect these types of influxes.
Craig Benedict resumed the PowerPoint presentation:
Student Capacity and Projections (chart)
Impacts from Class Size Changes: Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools (graphic)
Commissioner McKee asked if the 534-seat loss includes the impact of Pre-K
Craig Benedict said it does not. He said there was enough capacity in CHCCS to
accommodate class size changes over the allotted time, and to absorb the loss of the 534
seats. He said it does bring the need for a new school much closer, which had previously been
10+ years out.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if these numbers assume that all other class sizes will
remain constant, as opposed to increasing 4th grade, etc.
Craig Benedict said yes.
Commissioner Price asked if the 534-seat number was determined in some particular
way.
Craig Benedict said staff went school-by-school, working with school board staff, and did
the numbers for K through 3rd grade, 4th grade and 5th grade. He said this information is in the
Commissioners' packets. He said there are 165 classrooms in K-3, and the amount of capacity
will go down as the class size restrictions are fully implemented.
Impacts from Class Size Changes: Orange County Schools (graphic)
Commissioner Dorosin asked if, to date, the County has ever had to restrict
development due to SAPFP predictions.
Craig Benedict said no, this has never occurred. He said staff sometimes sees that it
may occur in a few years, and a developer can load the development over a period of time. He
said staff refines the model each year, and it has never been a problem, to date.
Options to Implement Class Size Ratios
A. Options which have been eliminated by SJAC:
1. Allow SAPFO to implement cessation of CAPS issuance (would stop issuance of
building permits)
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■ Present enrollment/capacity conditions would not create this
condition in the short term
2. Increase the adopted 105% Level of Service (LOS) for the elementary school
level permanently or for a specific period of time
■ Example: 3,365 students at 100%, 3,533 students at 105%, and
3,601 students at 107%
3. Allow modular, mobile, and/or temporary classrooms to be included in
elementary school building capacity numbers permanently or for a specific period
of time
Options to Implement Class Size Ratios
A. Options which have been eliminated by SJAC:
4. Coordinate all "special" classrooms or non-capacity spaces (i.e. art, music,
computer) to be located in modular, mobile, and/or temporary classrooms
5. Fund renovations and improvements to unused or underutilized spaces (i.e. staff
offices, teacher workrooms) identified as potential classroom space by school
staff in order to increase building capacity within permanent school buildings
6. Fund school renovation and/or expansion projects which increase elementary
school capacity within permanent school buildings
7. Fund the construction of a new elementary school
Options to Implement Class Size Ratios
B. Options still being explored:
1. Suspend the Certificate of Adequate Public Schools (CAPS) test for the
elementary school level for a specified period of time (short-term solution)
i. Coincide with Pre-K capacity discussions and decisions (Pre-K use of
space within schools further decrease capacity for K-5, so effective
capacity vs. SAPFO regulated capacity is lower than actual).
ii. Continue to issue CAPS for tracking purposes, but building permits will
not be denied when capacity is met
iii. Recommended at the October 18 School Collaboration meeting
iv. This is not an emergency situation even with class size reductions; lower
capacity does not create a CAPS deferral until 2026-27.
2. Discontinue the Certificate of Adequate Public Schools (CAPS) test for both
districts (short-term solution)
3. Fund the construction of a "school swing space" (mid-term solution)
Next Steps
• November 2019
o Orange County Planning staff will commence the 2020 SAPFOTAC Report
process on November 4.
■ Due to timing, capacity numbers collected from the schools for the 2020
SAPFOTAC Report may not incorporate the SJAC's final
recommendation. However, the report will include an update on the
SJAC and changes in class size in the executive summary.
• December 2019
o Presentation to the Orange County Board of Education and the Chapel Hill —
Carrboro Board of Education.
• January 2020
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o Annual SAPFO Technical Advisory Committee meeting to review capacity,
student membership, and 10-year projections.
• February 2020
o Presentation to the joint schools meeting for final recommendation
■ Orange County Planning staff will transmit final recommendation to the
Towns. Based on the final recommendation, this may include additional
steps for the local governments.
• March 2020
o Formal transmittal of draft 2020 SAPFOTAC Report
Commissioner Price asked if staff could clarify the term resolution.
Craig Benedict said the resolution of pre-K. He said this presentation is in two parts, as
the SJAC was tasked with talking about legislative class size changes, as well as pre-K. He
said if the number of seats is reduced in schools where pre-K is being used, then the need for
new elementary schools in CHCCS arises even sooner. He said this issue cannot easily be
resolved by some of the options posed by staff and SJAC. He said if pre-K classrooms are
excluded in CHCCS, an additional 495 seats is lost, and would push the need for a new
elementary school up to the year 2021-2022. He said there are more than 13 pre-K classrooms
in CHCCS, and some are in mobile buildings, while others are in bricks and mortar buildings,
and staff will reconcile these numbers. He said trying to accommodate the legislative
classroom size changes, as well as excluding the 221 pre-K seats, is a looming concern.
Questions and Comments
Impacts from Class Size Changes (graphic)
(Excluding Pre-K Classroom Capacities)
Impacts from Class Size Changes (graphic)
(Excluding Pre-K Classroom Capacities)
Student Capacity and Projections (chart)
Commissioner McKee said the CHCCS slides show a 775-seat loss, when considering
the two factors, but page 4 of the packet indicates a loss of 495 in CHCCS. He asked if these
numbers could be clarified.
Ashley Moncado said staff utilizes capacities not including pre-K, which are shown on
the slide, to which Commissioner McKee referred. She said staff is showing the difference
between 2018-19 and 2021-22.
Craig Benedict referred to the slide that shows the numbers when implementing both
changes at the same time by 2021-22, which would require a new school in CHCCS. He said
OCS is similar, and when the pre-K accommodation is also taken into account, a new school
will be needed in 2024-25. He said if pre-K is not included in OCS, the need for a new school
was years away. He reviewed the SJAC recommendations, and said the need for new schools
will occur sooner rather than later if trying to address the legislative mandates, as well as pre-K.
He said the mission of the SJAC was to identify the problems, and a larger group will determine
the solutions.
Commissioner McKee asked if the CHCCS elementary schools have an average size.
Craig Benedict said low 500s for CHCCS.
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Commissioner McKee asked if, in a worse case scenario, the County may be looking at
2 '/2 new schools county wide by 2026, if it chooses to implement full pre-K, in addition to the
legislative mandates.
Craig Benedict said when SAPFO was first put together the model to increase capacity
was to build a new school, but now the model is not necessarily a new build as there is so much
work to be done on the existing schools. He said capacity has been added to some of the
schools in recent years, and the new model may be redevelopment of existing buildings, as
opposed to new builds.
Commissioner McKee said the existing schools are in need of extensive work, costing
millions of dollars, and if this worse case were to come to pass, it would be another -$75 million
for new schools.
Craig Benedict referred to the slide that indicates 775 seats lost due to legislative
mandates and pre-K, and said that equates to 1.5 schools. He said OCS would also have
enough seats lost to warrant an additional school.
Commissioner McKee said regardless of how the problem is tackled, it will cost money.
Commissioner Marcoplos said he is concerned about the reduced class size, and asked
if this has been well thought out and if there are better ways to deal with this. He asked if the
County is bound to follow the class size formula, or could the class size be a bit bigger but an
additional teacher added to the room.
Commissioner Bedford said if the County fails to comply, the State would take over the
school board, and suspend the license of the superintendent.
Commissioner Marcoplos said the current legislature would do that, and he asked if the
current educational establishment might have alternate ways to deal with classroom numbers.
He said these are unfunded mandates from the State.
Student Capacity and Projections (chart)
Commissioner McKee asked if the school board staffs and members would like to
comment.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if the first set of numbers are based on changing class
size and the second set of numbers are based on the pre-k seats currently taking up space in
the schools.
Craig Benedict said there are pre-K students in the schools, and staff takes that
capacity and assumes it is used for K-5, but they are actually used for pre-K as well.
Commissioner Dorosin said a school might have 585 students, and asked if that number
includes the pre-K students or not.
Craig Benedict said staff is counting the capacity of the school, and assumes the
capacity is for use of K-5th only, when actually a certain number of seats are being used by pre-
K.
Commissioner Dorosin said he is still not clear. He said a school has x number of
spaces for K-5, based on the classroom size mandates set out by the legislature. He said, for
example a school has 585 seats, and when the students are counted and number 585, then the
school is at 100% capacity. He said if the number is higher the school is over capacity, and if it
is lower the school is under capacity.
Craig Benedict said yes.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if pre-K students are currently included, when students
sitting in seats are counted.
Craig Benedict said no, pre-K students are not counted. He said the original MOU said
to not count pre-K against the capacity in the school.
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Commissioner Dorosin said there could be a school that has 585 student capacity that
has 500 K-5 students, and 150 pre-K students, totaling 650, but would show up as being less
than 100% capacity.
Craig Benedict said correct.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if there are any pre-K classroom size restrictions.
Craig Benedict said he does not know.
Commissioner Dorosin considered the same hypothetical scenario as above, and asked
if the pre-K students were removed to somewhere else, would the report presented this evening
change.
Craig Benedict said the capacity of the school would still be 585. He said there would
be more room for the K-5 students with the pre-K students gone.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if the SAPFO number for that school would go down due
to space being freed up by the removal of pre-K. He said it seems that the freed up space was
already included in the SAPFO number because they were in the 585 number. He said it might
change how crowded any particular classroom is, because there would be room for the
students given the class size mandates.
Craig Benedict said that is a reasonable way to look at it.
Will Atherton, OCS Chair, said Commissioner Dorosin is correct. He said currently pre-
K students are not counted in the school numbers. He said the challenge is to decide what
happens to pre-K given the upcoming class size mandates. He said pre-K is being used
generically, but there are state mandated pre-Ks, especially for exceptional children.
Commissioner Dorosin said if the pre-K students are moved, the ability to meet the class
size mandates would be impacted.
Will Atherton said pre-K is not counted today, so it would not impact SAPFO. He said
what it affects is the timing of when a new school is needed. He said the County has been
discussing the expansion of pre-K, which would push this discussion even further left, and the
question becomes where do these kids go, as growth is not included. He said the best case is
the current numbers of when a new school is needed, and worst case is it is counted, there is
more growth and the number comes in even further, which would present a new challenge.
Commissioner Dorosin said he is just trying to clarify what is happening in the building.
He said if the mandates go into effect, the schools will have to meet them. He said one option
is build a new elementary school and one is to build a pre-K center. He said if pre-K was
housed elsewhere, there would be room freed up in the current schools to move closer to
meeting the class size mandates.
Will Atherton said it would in the long term.
Will Atherton said pre-k is not in every school, so some of this would help capacity but
would also cause some re-districting.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if pre-K is only housed in elementary schools.
Will Atherton said yes, and this is due to unique requirements that exist for pre-K
classrooms.
Patrick Able, CHCCS, said the same is true in CHCCS, which still has 6 pre-K
classrooms in mobile units, and does not account for them in the core spaces of the building
(gym, cafeteria, etc.). He said there are 44 mobiles units in CHCCS, and moving pre-K
students would likely get other students out of the mobile units and into brick and mortar. He
said this is a great conversation, and appreciates the opportunity to comment. He said the
slides shown tonight are the reality in CHCCS and OCS. He said all those involved are
discussing this because there is not enough capacity, and the class size mandates have
already begun. HE said CHCCS has had a waiver that ends June 30, 2020, and the district
now has 2 years to fully implement the mandates. He said any additional help to insure future
capacity is necessary, and all options should be considered.
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Commissioner Marcoplos said prior to committing to building new schools, the County
needs to have all of the remodeling and redistricting options. He asked if staff knows when it
will have this information.
Patrick Able said staff will bring some information to the joint meeting on February 25th
and the district is getting as many classrooms ready as possible now, and next year will have
reassignment for the start of the 2021-22 school year. He said class size reductions will be
heavily considered in this planning process.
Will Atherton said the redistricting has a bit of a chicken and the egg quality to it, and if
pre-K is an unknown, it is difficult to determine where to move other students. He said
redistricting now would look very different than redistricting with the removal of pre-K.
Patrick Able said the February 25th discussion will include the aging facilities and
needed renovations.
Commissioner Price referred to the renovations piece, and said some campuses, such
as Grady Brown, need to be secured. She asked if doing so would build capacity, and if this is
considered in the numbers.
Craig Benedict said through the Capital Improvement Planning (CIP) process, staff will
develop a CIP that may or may not include capacity increases, and once that reaches a feasible
fundable CIP, in the years targeted, then they can include capacity. He said it must be
financially feasible.
Commissioner Price asked if the school boards are expecting that capacity will be added
if renovations occur.
Will Atherton said OCS CIP focus has been for repairing schools for safety measures,
and he said they are exploring whether increased capacity is possible through renovation,
which will not be realistic in some of the older buildings.
Patrick Able said CHCCS long-range facility planning processes did include some
feasibility studies and assessment as to what makes sense with large-scale capital projects and
meeting capacity needs. He said it is unclear if these capacity increases would align with the
reassignment processes. He said this will all be shared at the February 251h meeting.
Commissioner McKee said going forward all the boards need to have an in depth
discussion about pre-K.
Commissioner Price referred to the mandatory pre-K programs, and asked if these
students are included in head counts.
Will Atherton said no, but exceptional children (EC) classrooms are adjusted correctly
for the sizes.
Commissioner Bedford thanked the committee that worked on this, and she said
SAPFO is a good tool for the County and assists in predicting capacity and allows for changes
in capital budgeting.
Commissioner Bedford said the notion of suspending the ability to deny CAPS does not
solve the problem, but what it does do, if pre-K numbers were added in, is prevent law suits and
waste of money defending them.
Commissioner Bedford said some of the trailers at Ephesus Elementary School are
beyond their useful life, and are not used full time for the kids. She said remaining trailers at
the school are used for children full time, and are a security issue for children. She said trailers
are not part of SAPFO, which is good, but in reality they are used but really should not be so
any longer.
Commissioner Bedford said the best choices moving forward may be different for the
two school districts. She said in 2013 CHCCS brought forward the issue of pre-K, and there
may be more land in OCS than CHCCS. She said she has always wanted pre-K numbers
included in SAPFO, and believes pre-K is one of the greatest strategies for closing the
achievement gap.
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Commissioner Bedford read minutes from the joint meeting of April 2013 indicating her
long held concern about older buildings in both districts. She said this is not news, and
everyone will have to work together to address the renovations and the need for more seats.
Commissioner Dorosin said the original bond discussion included Chapel Hill High
School, as well as renovating the Lincoln Center to house pre-K.
Commissioner Greene said she would like to know how many pre-K students are
mandated versus the number that is not.
Will Atherton said OCS has 2 EC classes serving 20 students.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if some of these students are subsidized, and if some are
able to pay.
Will Atherton said OCS offers paid pre-K slots, but they have never been used. He said
70% of pre-K students qualify for free meals, and the remaining 30% qualify for reduced meals.
Patrick Able said he does not have this information, but will get it to the Board. He said
EC students are mixed in with regular students, not contained separately in one classroom.
Will Atherton said if pre-K is centralized transportation would need to be provided.
Commissioner Dorosin said he knows this may be an issue, but pre-K was strongly
supported in the bond discussions.
Appointments
The current appointment process would be to move these agreed upon appointments to
the next BOCC Business Meeting and they would be listed under the Consent Agenda. The
next BOCC Business Meeting that was scheduled for February 18, 2020 has been officially
cancelled, this Consent Agenda item will now be presented at the BOCC Business Meeting on
March 10, 2020.
Advisory Board members who are to be re-appointed may continue to serve in their
same capacity. Individuals who are new appointments, may attend meetings, but will officially
assume their participation on March 11, 2020.
2. Adult Care Home Community Advisory Committee
Position #1 —Tiketha Collins
Position #3 —Alison Brown
Position #6 — Shade Little
The Board agreed by consensus.
Commissioner Dorosin asked if other counties have difficulty filling these positions, and
if there are better ways to recruit people.
Donna Baker said Janice Tyler, Department on Aging Director, is aware of this need as
well and it takes a great deal of training and commitment to serve.
Commissioner Dorosin said he would like staff to survey other counties to see if Orange
County is missing something, and perhaps the ability to serve should not be so onerous and the
Board could advocate in this regard.
Thom Freeman asked John Roberts if there had been discussions about merging this
board with the Nursing home CAC.
John Roberts said there has been some discussion, and someone was supposed to
come from Triangle J Council of Governments to talk about it. He said the boards can be
combined, which would reduce the overall number of appointees.
Chair Rich asked if staff would follow up on this idea.
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3. Affordable Housing Advisory Board
Position #3 — Olivia Fisher
The Board agreed by consensus.
4. Animal Services Advisory Board
Position #2 — Sunita Driehuys
Position #3 — Sue Millager
The Board agreed by consensus.
5. Animal Services Hearing Panel Pool
Position #1 — Michelle Walker
Position #7 — Tony Whitaker
Position #10 — Matthew Bonds
Position #13 — Cathy Munnier
Position #15 — Dr. Beth Grooms (moved from Position #17)
Position #16 — Edmund Tiryakian
Position #17 — Casey Ferrell (replacing Dr. Beth Grooms)
The Board agreed by consensus with these appointments.
6. Board of Equalization and Review
Position #7 — Susan T. Ballard
Position #8 — Dr. Andrew Landstrom
Position #9 —Adejuwon Ojebuoboh
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
7. Chapel Hill Planning Commission
Position #1 — James Baxter
The Board agreed by consensus on this appointment.
8. Chapel Hill Orange County Visitors Bureau
Position #6 — Kayla Dempsey
Position #7 — Mark Bell
Position #9 — Lydia Lavelle
Position #13 —Anita "Spring" Council
Commissioner Dorosin asked if there is a reason the High School Athletics Association
has a seat on this board.
Commissioner Bedford said it brings in a large amount of hotel revenue via sporting
events.
Commissioner Marcoplos asked if this Association contributes financially to the Visitors
Bureau.
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It was unknown.
Commissioner Greene said this is the state headquarters of this Association, and it
brings in a great deal of revenue.
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
9. Commission for the Environment
Position #2 — Francis Binkowski
Position #3 — Kim Livingston
Position #4 — Dr. Bill Ward
Position #5 — Elizabeth McWhorter
Position #6 — K. Alan Parry
Position #7 — Jaya Nair
Position #8 — Carrie Fletcher
Commissioner Bedford noted that reappointments Carrie Fletcher and K. Alan Perry did
not have the best attendance records, and should be encouraged to do better moving forward.
Donna Baker said staff would follow up.
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
10. Nursing Home Community Advisory Committee
Position #11 — Dr. Carol Kelly
Position #12 —Vibeke Talley
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
11. Orange County Planning Board
Position #5 — David Blankfard
Position #9 —Alexandra Allman
Position # 11 — Susan Hunter
Position #12 —Julian (Randy) Marshall, Jr.
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
12. Orange Unified Transportation Board
Position #2 — David Laudicina
Position #4 — Roy Schonberg
Position #13 —Tom Gray
Position # 14 — Erik Broo
The Board agreed by consensus on these appointments.
A motion was made by Commissioner McKee seconded by Commissioner Bedford to go
into closed session at 9:15 p.m. for the purposed listed below:
Pursuant to 143-318.11(a)(3) To consult with an attorney employed or retained by the public
body in order to preserve the attorney-client privilege between the attorney and the public; and
Pursuant to [N.C.G.S. 143-318.11(a)(5)] : To establish or instruct the staff or agent concerning
the negotiation of the price and terms of a contract concerning the acquisition of real property.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
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RECONVENE INTO REGULAR SESSION
A motion was made by Commissioner Dorosin seconded by Commissioner Greene to
reconvene into regular session at 10:OOp.m.
Adjournment
A motion was made by Commissioner Dorosin seconded by Commissioner Greene to adjourn
the meeting at 10:OOp.m.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Penny Rich, Chair
Donna Baker
Clerk to the Board