Loading...
HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 10-03-2019 Work Session 1 APPROVED 11/7/2019 MINUTES BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS WORK SESSION October 3, 2019 8:00 p.m. (following the Joint Meeting with the Fire Chiefs' Council) The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in a work session on Thursday, October 3, 2019 at 8:12 p.m., following the Joint Meeting with the Fire Chiefs' Council at the Whitted Human Services Center in Hillsborough, N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Penny Rich and Commissioners Jamezetta Bedford, Mark Dorosin, Mark Marcoplos, and Renee Price COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Commissioners Earl McKee, Sally Greene COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Bonnie Hammersley, Deputy County Manager Travis Myren, and Deputy Clerk Sherri Ingersoll (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below.) Chair Rich called the meeting to order at 8:12 p.m. 1. Discussion on Public Comments at BOCC Meetings The Board met to discuss any potential changes to the Board's current framework regarding public comments at BOCC meetings. BACKGROUND: At the September 10, 2019 work session, the Board had a brief discussion related to public comments occurring at work sessions. At the September 17, 2019 Regular Board Meeting, a request was made by a member of the public that the Board consider providing the opportunity for public comments at all BOCC meetings. North Carolina General Statute 153A-52.1 establishes a baseline for public comment at BOCC meetings. The statute requires the BOCC to "provide at least one period for public comment per month at a regular meeting of the board." Orange County far exceeds this baseline and also exceeds what is provided by many other counties. The current Rules of Procedures for the Board of County Commissioners, Rule 9, "Public Comment for Items not on the Printed Agenda", provides the opportunity for public comment on any topic at the beginning of all Regular Meetings under Item #2. Speakers are required to sign up to speak, and are allowed three minutes each after being recognized by the Chair of the Board of Commissioners. The Rules of Procedure also include a comment stating: "The board may decide as a matter of general policy to set aside part of each meeting for individuals or groups to address the board. The rule allows any individual or group to get on the agenda, but lets the board decide whether there is time to hear its comments." 2 The Board's current operational framework also provides for public comments on all items appearing on Regular Meeting agendas. This includes Resolutions, Presentations, Public Hearings, and all other items that appear on a Regular Meeting agenda. The Board's current framework also provides the opportunity for public comment at any other specific Public Hearings as may be scheduled by the Board, such as the separate Budget Public Hearings meetings conducted each year by the Board. There is no current specific written policy regarding public comment at non-Regular BOCC meetings. However, the Board's general practice for more than 20 years has been that non- Regular BOCC meetings are opportunities for Board members to study, discuss and evaluate issues among themselves, with governing boards from other jurisdictions, and with staff. Since those non-Regular Meetings by practice have rarely incorporated actual decisions made by the Board, opportunities for public comments have been focused to Regular Meetings when the Board is specifically considering decisions on respective issues. This item provides the opportunity for the Board to discuss its current public comment framework for Regular Meetings as referenced above, as well as the public comment framework for all other Board meetings. Those other Board meetings include, but are not necessarily limited to: • Regular Work Sessions • Budget Work Sessions • Annual Board Retreats • Joint Meetings with Chiefs' Council • Joint Meetings with the Schools • Any Other Joint Meetings • Legislative Breakfasts • Special Meetings • Meetings Specifically for Closed Session Matters Chair Rich said Commissioner McKee and a resident, brought up this issue at a recent meeting. John Roberts said it came up because a lot of false information was being spread, alleging that the Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) was talking about things behind closed doors, which was not true. He said an item was just opened for discussion, and no vote was taken. He said the public does have an opportunity to make comments at public hearings, and the Board allows public comment at all regular meetings, which is well above the state mandated requirement. He said the topic in question was always intended to be continued to another time, and public comment was to be accepted prior to any vote being taken. Chair Rich said the Attorney's comments are based on page 15 of the booklet, where the procedures are outlined, and the Board did nothing unusual. She said the Board is being pressured to allow comments at work sessions, and has previously made the decision not to do this. Commissioner Dorosin said the points are all well taken, but in the abstract it says there is no written policy about non-regular meetings. He asked if the Board should codify some version of the Procedures that would specifically state a policy on public input. He summarized that public comment is allowed at all regular meetings, and the philosophy behind work sessions is to interact more directly with each other in an informal setting. He said no votes are taken, and any matter that is discussed must come to a regular meeting to allow public comment prior to a vote. He said public comment can also be made even 3 when an item is not on the agenda. He said this situation involved a deliberate misinformation campaign, and the Board should write something to provide a consistent, clear explanation. He said the agenda abstract used to indicate if an item was public or not. He said this did help to bolster what the Board is trying to do. He said if there is nothing specific in the Procedures, the Board should set the expectations and manage them. He said he values work sessions to brainstorm and share ideas; and there are not many of them, and offering an hour of time for public comment takes away from the discussion time. Chair Rich asked if this feedback makes sense to staff. John Roberts said yes, and staff can put this in place if the Board so chooses. Commissioner Marcoplos said it is important to make sure the work sessions are defined, and the discussions that occur allow the Board to be ready to create items that can be presented to the public. He said the public has many opportunities to talk, and this is just a solution without a problem. Chair Rich said she feels that while it is important to just be able to talk, allowing Public Comment at that previous work session would not have been helpful. She agreed it is important to manage expectations. Commissioner Marcoplos said misinformation is a problem, and allowing people to beat the drum on their favorite issue just creates a game. Commissioner Bedford said she does not want to pick and choose issues to allow public comment. She asked if the Board ever changes the amount of time people can speak, to allow more people to talk. Chair Rich said the Board has tried this, but the Board settled on three minutes per person, and 1 hour in total. She said if there were more people to speak, the Board has traditionally voted to extend the comments to over an hour, for that particular meeting. Chair Rich said it should be done consistently, and the Board should not pick and choose hot button issues. John Roberts said the Procedures say the Board can suspend the rules, but he likes Commissioner Dorosin's idea of not extending public comment to work sessions. Commissioner Marcoplos said work sessions are essential, and should not cater to a certain desire. Commissioner Dorosin said a work session should be defined in writing, and it made clear that public comment is offered only at regular meetings. He said this paragraph should be put at the top of the work session agenda, along with the date for the next opportunity for public comment. He said the Board should not get hung up on what people want to talk about, as the Board offers more opportunities for public comment than other counties in the state. He said people have the chance to talk with the Board, and the Board wants to hear what the public has to say; but work sessions are intended for a different purpose. Commissioner Marcoplos said work sessions are not private, and the public can attend and listen. Commissioner Price said the booklet already says that, and asked if the Board can add an explanation that the Board does not conduct regular business at work sessions. Commissioner Bedford said she has received requests to provide childcare at meetings to allow better access. She said currently comments can be made about items not on the agenda at the beginning of a regular meeting, but one must wait until later to comment on items that are on the agenda. She said maybe the Board should also allow for comment on items on the agenda at the beginning, so that parents with young children can go home and get them to bed. Chair Rich said the Board tries to be flexible if someone mentions they have concerns with the agenda and timing. 4 Commissioner Bedford said the Board should let the public know this accommodation is available. Chair Rich said the consensus seems to be to bring this topic back to a regular meeting with some proposed wording to manage expectations. John Roberts said he will put it on an agenda and allow for public comment, and will make the desired changes. Bonnie Hammersley said she was reminded that this issue was not only regarding a public work session, but also other types of meetings. Greg Wilder, Manager's Office, said there are different types of meetings: special sessions, meetings with other jurisdictions, budget work sessions, the retreat, legislative breakfasts, Assemblies of Governments (AOG), etc. He said the petition refers to all types of meetings. Commissioner Dorosin said this practice should apply for all types of meetings, except regular meetings. He said there are plenty of regular meetings per month, and any other types of meetings are like work sessions. Commissioner Price suggesting adding a section on when public comment is allowed. Commissioner Dorosin said there needs to be a section describing what work sessions are and why. Commissioner Price said there is already a section, but it is not as descriptive as what is being discussed tonight. She agrees with Commissioner Dorosin, but also wonders if the Board should spell out public comment in each type of meeting. Commissioner Dorosin said it is important to define a work session specifically. Bonnie Hammersley said she likes Commissioner Dorosin's suggestion of putting something at the top of the agenda stating that it is not an opportunity for public comment. Commissioner Dorosin suggested the following language: "Work Sessions are designed to xxx", and address no public comment. He said if it is spelled out, people will better understand. He said boilerplate language can be used, and just change the date to indicate the next opportunity for public comment. Chair Rich asked if the same information should be listed for all meetings, e.g.: AOG meetings. Commissioner Dorosin said there should be two categories: regular meetings and work sessions (with all other meetings being work sessions). Greg Wilder said the statement that the Board does not make decisions at work sessions is not totally correct, as the Board occasionally votes. He said John Roberts will need to figure out the best way to word this. Commissioner Dorosin said the AOG is not a voting situation; it is just a type of agreement. Commissioner Bedford said the Rules of Order state that votes are possible at joint meetings. Greg Wilder said he has seen motions made, seconded, and voted on at AOG meetings. Bonnie Hammersley said a vote can be taken at any meeting that has a quorum, and not have to bring it back. She said even at budget time, the vote is not concrete until it is a final vote when the budget is approved. Chair Rich said John Roberts will come up with language, and the Board will discuss it at a regular meeting. 2. Discussion of County Commissioners' Terms on Advisory Boards and Commissions 5 The Board discussed the length of the terms that members of the Board of County Commissioners serve on Advisory Boards and Commissions. BACKGROUND: At the BOCC Special Meeting on December 18, 2018, the Board began a discussion on the length of terms that BOCC members serve on the various County Boards and Commissions. Based on a desire for further discussion, the topic was scheduled for a late- 2019 work session. Chair Rich said the Board tried to change up the policy about not allowing people to stay on boards for an indefinite time period, and this seems to be understood in different ways by different people. She said there needs to be some clarification about whether one chooses the same board two or four years in a row, or if one chooses a board and keeps it for 2 or 4 years. Commissioner Dorosin said his intent was that every board gets picked every year, and after picking the same board 2 or 4 years in a row, one cannot save that board again; but one could choose it again if no one else does. He said this practice encourages Commissioners to take on different roles. Chair Rich said one can only choose one save each year, and can stay on it for four years. Commissioner Marcoplos said his perspective is slightly different. He said, when picking intergovernmental boards, it takes longer to be effective. He said it is not about limiting the time, but it is the time that is needed to have an effective representative on a board. He said if the Board says one needs two years to become effective, there is a value being placed on the tenure; but if only one board can be saved then it does not work. He said it needs to be a team effort, and the Board should determine the best approach to dealing with this in the County. He asked if it should it be like a fantasy draft, or should there be limitations and expectations to be on that board for two years. He said there should be some way to make sure people are on the same boards long enough to be effective. Commissioner Price asked if there is a way to determine effectiveness. Commissioner Marcoplos said, for example, GoTriangle has a lot going on at the board, and if someone else grabs it next year, it may not help the overall concern. Commissioner Price asked if there is a way to decide which person should be on a board. Commissioner Marcoplos said one should be able to pick a board when the time limit is up. Commissioner Price said she thought the intent is for all to experience being on different boards, and to prevent any one person for staying on one board for 10 years. She said reports are good, but rotating the roles creates the opportunity for others to experience it. Commissioner Dorosin said all Commissioners should be somewhat familiar with all areas of the County. He said he does not agree that one needs to be in the position for 4 years to be effective. He said if a Commissioner is in a 4-year role, but is doing a bad job after year one, he feels that he should be able to have the opportunity to be on that board, if he thinks he can do a better job. He said another downside of serving too long is it encourages other Commissioners to check out on issues. He said he can accept that there is a learning curve, but people get tracked into their preferred areas and become experts, and that does not keep everyone engaged. He said, with this approach, one still has a save, but it puts pressure on the rest of the Board to be involved in some aspect. He said he does not think anything is too complicated for any Commissioner to learn, and all should 6 be able to rotate these duties. He said he is on the Fire Chief's Council this year, after Commissioner McKee was on it for years. He said he did not have a good idea of what the issues were or what was going on, but he sees value in being able to be involved and learning. He said he looks forward to someone else taking on this role next, and the 2 to 4 year limits seem reasonable to him. Commissioner Marcoplos said it takes time to fully understand some of these boards, and it would be useful to be able to use the knowledge one has taken time to acquire, in order to be effective. He said the Board has the responsibility to serve effectively, and there is some tension there with the desire to have experience in a variety of roles. He said the transportation stuff is very complicated, and it just takes time to learn it, and then 2-3 years to be able to be effective. He said there is not a magical formula, and agreed that if a Commissioner screws up, it needs to be addressed. Commissioner Price said she has an issue with "best representation". Commissioner Marcoplos said it is not a personal thing, and if one serves on a board for 2 years, that person is better qualified to serve than one who has never been on said board. Commissioner Price said someone could have a background in an area already, but it is advantageous for the Board as a collective to get experience in different areas, as all will need to address issues. She said sometimes board by-laws need to be changed. Commissioner Marcoplos said time adds to effectiveness, and allows Commissioners to best serve the County. Commissioner Dorosin asked if the 2 and 4 model works. He said he thinks it does, as the burden is on each Commissioner to pick a save about which he/she is passionate. Commissioner Marcoplos said there is only one pick, and asked if it is a good thing for the Board to allow changes. He said the limitation is fine, and he wonders if there should be more saves. Commissioner Bedford said there are experts on the staff to assist new members to get up to speed. She said a higher-level question is to consider the Commissioner's role as a board member. She said, on the intergovernmental boards, the Commissioners serve as more of a liaison for the BOCC. She said each Commissioner has areas of expertise/ interest, which is why he/she has chosen the boards. She said no one needs to be an expert, and to be a high functioning Board, it is critical to share power and control. She said she is hearing a fear that one may come to a board, and not do as well as someone else can, and that should not be the motivation. She said all have special interests, and she does not want to poach if someone else has a high interest. She said she has been in the fear situation with the school boards, and voted out of that fear forgetting that staff and other board members are available to help and support. She said it is important to have the limitations and depth across the bench. Commissioner Marcoplos said he is not scared, but wants to figure out a best way to be effective. He said attending one or two meetings is just the tip of the iceberg, as there are a lot of other things that happen behind the scenes. Chair Rich said Community Home Trust (CHT) is changing the way it handles its business, and CHT requested that the person who comes from the elected board should serve a three-year term, because one is not effective until then. She said there will also be limitations of two three-year terms, regardless if you are an elected official. She said she is not certain if CHT wants Commissioner McKee to come back; but CHT is changing up their policies to address an issue. Commissioner Dorosin said that approach is inconsistent with BOCC policies. He said BOCC policies should be dictated by what other agencies want. He said, in the time he has served on the intergovernmental boards, he has found it discouraging that other counties keep the same members on the board forever, as this makes the board less 7 effective. He said in Orange County every Commissioner has a chance to participate, and continuity can turn into exclusivity. Commissioner Marcoplos agreed. He said boards like GoTriangle have voting power that is equivalent to an elected body, which gives a different level of power. He said this makes these boards on a level playing field on key decisions, and makes them different. Commissioner Dorosin said this fact supports his desire for limitations. Commissioner Marcoplos said he would set limitations, but also assure good representation with an experienced representative. Commissioner Dorosin said that is the reason for the save. Commissioner Price said the same issue exists on the BOCC, with members who have served for many years and may have greater experience. She said all Commissioners have the ability make decisions, and the BOCC often votes separately on issues related to GoTriangle, etc. Commissioner Dorosin said there are some boards that have the BOCC chair as the representative, and chairs change every few years, so continuity is not there. Commissioner Marcoplos said he desires for the BOCC to get the most bang for its buck with Board representation, and he understands it will never be perfect. Chair Rich said the Board needs look at section 6-a to make this clear. She said the Board will do a 2-year limit and 4-year limit (not terms), and still allow one save. She asked if this choosing process is Board policy or a directive. David Hunt, Deputy Clerk, said it was something the Board came up with. Bonnie Hammersley said it should be a Board rule, and a future Board can change it if it so chooses. Greg Wilder said there is a written document that spells out the rules and process, but it needs to be amended. Chair Rich said there should just be a one-paragraph change, and see how it works. 3. Discussion on Reserving County Advisory Board and Commission Seats to Ensure Racial and Ethnic Representation and the Addition of"Age" to Volunteer Application Forms The Board met to discuss: 1) reserving County Advisory Board and Commission seats to ensure racial and ethnic representation; and 2) the addition of an "Age" item on Advisory Boards and Commissions Volunteer Application Forms. BACKGROUND: At the June 4, 2019 BOCC Regular Meeting, it was requested that the Board of Commissioners discuss the possibility of reserving seats on County Advisory Boards and Commissions to ensure racial and ethnic representation. At the September 17, 2019 BOCC Regular Meeting, it was requested that the Board of Commissioners discuss the possibility of adding an "Age" item on Advisory Boards and Commissions Volunteer Application Forms. Commissioner Dorosin asked if there are legal issues with setting aside seats based on race. John Roberts said that looks like a quota, which would not be good; however, it is legal to target recruitment efforts to increase membership based on race and to have 8 diversity on the boards. He said he would not recommend setting aside one or two seats, but having a goal of diversity and targeting recruitment efforts towards achieving diversity is perfectly legal. Commissioner Dorosin said the Board could include a statement, in the recruitment process, which says Orange County believes in insuring diverse representation, and hearing from a range of voices a diverse population, and ask how the applicant's appointment to the board would contribute to achieving this diversity. He said this would allow the applicants to describe it themselves, and gets buy-in for being on the board. He said the desire for diverse representation is one of the Board's social justice values and, stating it as such, helps to establish expectations. Chair Rich said the application form is 8 pages long, which can turn deter people from applying. She said there is also a problem with putting this type of information in the in-house database. David Hunt said some of the current application is disclaimers for certain boards, and instructs an applicant what they must agree to to serve on the board. He said a lot of questions are asked, and there is not consistency among all boards. Commissioner Dorosin suggested setting up a subcommittee to review the entire process. He said it is important to apply, but applicants do not need to be experts. He said he would volunteer to be on the subcommittee. He said most of the boards are full, so maybe the application is not a deterrent. David Hunt said part of the hypothesis is that, the more complex the form, the less people want to complete it. Commissioner Price said she originally raised this agenda item, and her concern is not with the length of the application. She said the issue is increasing diversity, and the Board has done a poor job at this. She said some boards have asked the BOCC to wait to get a certain type of person, which is fine. She said recently, the BOCC had an opportunity to add diversity, but the board was primarily white. She said the people who have applied are not able to get on a board when they want to, because they might not be seen as having the right qualifications. Commissioner Rich said she does not believe this to be true anymore. She said the BOCC voted to put 3 people of color on the Visitor's Bureau Board. She said efforts are being made. Commissioner Price said she has tried to get people of color onto boards, and the BOCC has voted against it. Chair Rich said in general boards are trying. She said there is a certain group of people that are abused by serving on too many boards, and a diversity of people needs to be found. Commissioner Price said she is concerned with the selection actions of the BOCC, and when opportunities arise to put people of color on a board, the BOCC is failing to be intentional. Chair Rich said the BOCC is not picking applicants because of being personal friends with them. She said that is not a good statement to put out there. Commissioner Price said sometimes people are appointed because a Commissioner knows them. Chair Rich said one can know an applicant for many reasons, and not necessarily be friends with them. She asked if creating a subcommittee would be a long process. Commissioner Dorosin said that an 8-page form is discouraging people from applying, as it is daunting. He said the Board should be conscious of adding more requirements. He said the Board either needs to jettison some of it, or do something else; and he believes it is best to jettison some of these additional requirements. He said if one is interested, one should be able to apply. He said it is important to have some questions to 9 address diversity. He said many of the recommendations come from the boards, and there needs to be training or outreach offered to these boards to encourage diverse recruitment. He said there may not be targeted outreach, or there may not be diverse applicants that are applying, but there are more components to the issue than decisions being made by the BOCC. He said it is important to be supportive of the boards, and if they have vetted applicants, the BOCC leans on that recommendation. He said diversity is a value and a goal, and the question should be how to operationalize that goal. He asked if the Board should be making appointments at work sessions to allow deeper review and discussion. Chair Rich said she does not like to hurriedly make appointments at the end of regular meetings, and likes the possibility of discussing them at a work session, and appointing at a regular meeting. Commissioner Dorosin said this process would give the Board an opportunity to review the diversity, and ask the chair of the Advisory Board what type of recruitment they did. Commissioner Price said if an applicant of color applies, but is not recommended to the BOCC, she would like to know why. Chair Rich said the subcommittee will be Commissioners Dorosin and Price, who will meet with David Hunt and Donna Baker. She said to be sure to take into consideration ways to get the age of the applicant. She said the BOCC got a lot of accolades about having an 18 year old on the Housing Advisory Board. Commissioner Dorosin said the BOCC should ask the question about what an applicant can bring to the board to help achieve the diversity goal. Commissioner Marcoplos said he is always struck by the lack of young people, and wants to get them involved. He asked if there is a reason to not ask an applicant's age. Commissioner Bedford said it can be discriminatory. She said if it were up to her she would not ask age, race, or ethnicity. She said there is a big social problem of trust, but diversity is important. Commissioner Marcoplos asked if the questions could be optional. Commissioner Bedford said yes, but one will feel pressured to fill it out if it is on the application. Commissioner Dorosin said if the question asks age, then the BOCC just knows a number. He said he would rather see the person who wants to bring the perspective of the young person, and the Board must be cautious about reducing the application to any one metric. He said asking the aforementioned question is more valuable. Commissioner Marcoplos said he appreciates the point, but he would like to make it easy to decipher the information. Commissioner Dorosin said this can be addressed with the Advisory Board's recruitment practices, and asking if recruitment is occurring in a variety of places (UNC, Young Republicans, Young Democrats, etc.). Chair Rich asked if there is a way to reach out to the current boards that are making recommendations. Bonnie Hammersley said staff support for each board leads the recruitment, and would talk directly to the boards. She said she could attend these meetings, and talk about recruitment. She said staff support calls Thom Freeman-Stuart in the Clerk's Office about open seats. Chair Rich summarized the following action steps: • subcommittee should revise the application, including Commissioner Dorosin's question. It should be kept to 2 pages, with links to further information if necessary. • consider changing the applications review to a work session. Let's keep the application to 2 pages. 10 Thom Freeman-Stuart said he is willing to speak to groups around the community about serving on boards to drum up greater interest. He asked if the BOCC would let him know which groups to contact. Commissioner Price said she has information about two upcoming meetings. Chair Rich said the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People (NAACP) meets on Saturdays. Commissioner Price said she would get Thom Freeman-Stuart connected there. Commissioner Dorosin said all of the Commissioners should consider taking some responsibility on recruitment. He said everyone has access to different groups, and it is a recruitment issue. Commissioner Bedford said perhaps this issue can be advertised at the radio summit. The Board agreed by consensus that this was an excellent idea. Chair Rich asked if the BOCC wants to discuss applicants at work sessions. Commissioner Dorosin said this topic needs more discussion, and he is not sure the best way to do it. Commissioner Price said she would like to try it and see what works. Commissioner Marcoplos said at the last meeting the BOCC spent a lot of time on a lot of applicants. He said he never really understood the thought process of his fellow Commissioners, and wonders how to balance the desire for racial diversity with compellingly competent applicants. He said he would like to have the chance to hear how Commissioners reached their decision to recommend one applicant over another. Commissioner Dorosin said it is good to spread them out over the meetings. Thom Freeman-Stuart said there are 8 advisory board appointments coming up for the 10/15 meeting. He asked if these should be moved to the November work session. Greg Wilder said that the Board can push the appointments to the November work session, but that moves the appointments to December. He said perhaps more appointments could be grouped together at that time. Commissioner Bedford said the Board should not delay any appointments to the Nursing Home Advisory Board that have completed their first year, and should be automatically appointed. She said the BOCC should be mindful of how quickly these vacancies need to be filled. Thom Freeman-Stuart said he can come to agenda review on Monday to consider which appointments should be reviewed sooner rather than later. The meeting concluded at 9:52 p.m. Penny Rich, Chair Sherri Ingersoll Deputy Clerk