HomeMy WebLinkAboutSWAB minutes 110801 Minutes
Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
Approved December 13, 2001
Attendance : Jan Sassaman, Remus Smith, Albert Vickers, B . J . Tipton, Barry
Jacobs, and Brian Ketchum
Staff : Gayle Wilson, Blair Pollock, Rod Visser, and Wanda McCain
Jan Sassaman volunteers to chair the meeting
1 . Adoption of Minutes from August 9, 2001 . Moved by Remus Smith, 2nd by
Al Vickers — Adopted 5 to 0
2 . Organization Issues - Designation of New Chair - Al Vickers nominates Jan
Sassaman as new chair . Brian Ketchum - 2nd Sassaman is elected and
appointed as new chair . 4-0
3 . Chapel Hill Commercial Waste Reduction Task Force - Pilot Program
Request - Vickers gives a summary of what the Town Council is proposing .
The Town of Chapel Hill wants to implement a pilot program to help reduce
waste in the commercial sector and is asking the county to fund the program .
Wilson states that the Solid Waste Department has been involved in the
process . There was a (Town of Chapel Hill) Task Force formed to
demonstrate to some of the businesses how to reduce their waste and thus the
amount that they have to pay for collection . We were approached about
setting up a pilot program in a restaurant, office building, and an apartment
complex to pick up materials depending on the type of business and to do a
waste audit .
We have tried to be helpful to the Town and explained that, at that time, there
was room for some expansion for food waste . If the pilot program expansion
fell within that budget it could be paid for out of this budget. While waiting
for the Chapel Hill Task Force to get back to us, we went ahead and added
restaurants that were requesting the service and now we no longer have any
additional budget for additional food waste and glass programs .
We did offer to take on more facilities if the Town would fund the additions .
We already have food waste and commercial glass programs in several places
around town and could tell the Town the level of reduction achievable based
on existing programs . The only area where we could gain additional
information is with mixed paper . We could set a container at an apartment
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8, 2001
complex and set one at another business and measure the waste shifted (to
recycling) . The Town' s Solid Waste Task Force wanted to stick with the
original program, which leads us to this request .
Pollock states that from a tip fee standpoint Chapel Hill is getting the
majority of the benefits of the program . It' s not to say that we don' t want to
expand the program but we are maxed out budgetarily .
Tipton states she thought this was going to be a commingled program .
Wilson states that would be something we wouldn t be able to do .
Sassaman ask how much are they aware of what the County is doing .
Pollock states that a list of every restaurant on the program and an indication
of whether it was in Chapel Hill or not, was given to the Task Force .
Ketchum asked what the reaction of the Task Force was to the information.
Pollock states that the Task Force viewed the information and potential pilot
programs as a companion piece to what happens at establishments when the
Town moves to a Pay-As -You-Throw commercial waste system . How will
they react when they are paying for two or three time per week waste
collection? Would they recycle ? We could use the information from the bar
and restaurant program to extrapolate from what we' re doing now .
Vickers states that looking at the request letter what has not been done .
Ketchem : Is it that the only thing you' re not doing right now is the mixed
paper at commercial or multifamily sites ?
Pollock states that there is the potential to work with one or two multifamily
complexes to see how more potential recycling can be removed from their
waste if there are more recycling sites put in to make recycling easier . We
could see if they reduce their dumpster frequency further .
Sassaman suggests that a letter be drafted using the materials given to the
Task Force, written to Mayor Waldorf, stating what the Solid Waste
Department is doing now and this is what we can do . In view of budgetary
constraints, we don' t feel comfortable going to the Commissioners asking for
the money .
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November 8 , 2001
Ketchem stated it seems like a duplication of almost everything .
You ' ve already got a mechanism to put the mixed paper in place .
Are there any commercial establishments where you could get them to pay
for it ? CCB has just moved into the new buildings across from the Friday
Center . Could they pay for it?
Jacobs states it would make sense to pick a site on the route for the in-house
program, for example as you' re going from Chapel Hill Town Hall to
Carrboro Town Hall, there could be a stop .
Wilson states that, in the Solid Waste Plan, it is envisioned that there would
be universal commercial collection, which means all business, would get it .
For the commercial sector, it is hard to do expansions .
Sassaman states that some of the businesses have their own mechanisms for
handling stuff .
Tipton states that you' re maxed out but if you look at the request a little
differently, they are asking that your budget be expanded .
Wilson states this is true but we have enough food waste and commercial
glass establishments that we service on a regular basis that the additional
information could be gained from reviewing the data we have already . The
potential for getting information by adding new sites is minimal .
Pollock states that there is another nuance, if the Commissioners give us an
expanded budget there is this political thing . Should the Town of Chapel Hill
be the one that gets it or should it be first-come, first-served ? We have a
waiting list .
Jacobs states that the key point is that they are calling it a pilot program . We
don' t need a pilot program to gather information . The second point is that
there is a waiting list already .
Vickers states that the one issue not addressed is mixed paper . Are you not
doing that now?
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8, 2001
Wilson states that we do not have any commercial collection of mixed paper .
We could put mixed paper in select apartments or businesses and see how
much mixed paper is shifted .
Smith asks if the new complex across from Timberlyne would be a place to
start . Could this be part of their lease contract?
Pollock states that we are interested in doing a pilot mixed paper program
that is more appealing in an office building because the grade of paper is
better and we might not have to pay .
Wilson states that with a pilot program, the better it works the more difficult
it is, when the program is over, to end the service .
Sassaman asked about the cost on an annual basis to set up something in an
office complex . For example at the new complex at Meadowmont , next to
the Friday Center . Are we talking about $2, 000 per year . Can we talk to
David Kimball at CCB ?
Wilson notes that it is not near any of our routes . Even if they pay, I still have
to pull a truck off a route (and there' s a cost to that) .
Ketchem asks if the Council is expecting an official response from the SWAB .
Should we try to break down what they are asking for, address what we
think is already being done and the ones that aren' t being done and [provide]
some options for doing these ?
Wilson states that staff can prepare a draft memo for you all to look at . What
they are asking for is not unreasonable, it' s that we can provide them the
information that they are seeking by alternate means at no cost .
4 . Other Business
* Update on Nov . 7 Public Hearing for Regulated Recyclable Material Ordinance
Wilson states that 80 % of the speakers were farmers that were concerned
about prohibiting the burning of land clearing debris as it relates to
agriculture . The attorney had a problem exempting them from the ordinance .
The task is to try and find a way to accommodate agriculture burning of land
clearing debris . Burning land clearing debris is indistinguishable when
burning on a farm versus burning in a development .
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
There are certain definitions of farms and the use-tax could help . A large
portion of the county is agriculture but the actual extent of farming is less
than that . Developers are going to try to find a way around every rule they
can . The attorney has to find some way to accommodate the farmers .
Jacobs states that solid waste is the same regardless of the way it is produced .
No one gets that . I would ask the staff to look at other options . Instead of
worrying about how we word the ordinance, we can worry about who we
want to exempt and how to assist them which is a positive way .
Wilson states that there are some ways to deal with this issue . Other issues
mentioned were illegal dumping . That is a law enforcement issue and the
manager and the sheriff will be talking about that . There was sentiment for
exempting from regulation those loads that were dumped illegally {when
someone brings the mixed regulated material to the landfill as part of the
cleanup ) .
There was a speaker advocating a certain type of burning called air curtain
burning . It is a fairly cheap way to get rid of large amounts of trees and
stumps . It is a fairly clean burn, a smokeless operation, burns at extremely
high temperatures, and burns quickly . The ordinance does not recognize that
type of burning or exempt it.
Sassaman ask how that compares in terms of effort and time with grinding .
Wilson states that it' s less expensive and produces small amounts of fine ash .
I don' t know how we are going to approach this issue .
Jacobs states that in speaking with the attorney, we could see as
characterizing that as a different [type of] burning.
Wilson states that in a [Hurricane } Fran situation you may want this type of
burning, but not in a day to day situation.
Wilson further summarized that there were other questions about space on
job sites to do the sorting . We were asked for ways these materials could be
sorted on a small site . The methodology for dealing with that is site-specific .
There were questions about exemptions from storm damage and comments
about the unreasonableness of a 60- day delay to promote deconstruction .
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
Wilson stated - I think that the public hearing went wonderfully . This is a
fairly significant ordinance in terms of how it' s going to affect contractor s
and it wasn' t contractors that came to complain about it . I think we are
almost there and we can address most of the issues .
* Status of Alternative Finance Committee Analysis
Wilson states that staff has been spending a lot of time working on 10-year
plans for the various programs . (hand out draft of C &D program) . There
will be 8 or 9 programs that will follow this format .
Sassaman requests a review of what you passed on to me about our request,
the letter we sent to the Board of County Commissioners and everyone
should be aware of that (This refers to the letter that the SWAB sent to the
Commissioners affirming that they support the existing plan and the goals . )
Wilson states that the Commissioners had questions regarding assumptions .
The SWAB prepared a memo to respond to the questions . The letter has not
been addressed by the County Commissioners yet .
Visser states that to get it into the Commissioners hands we may pass it along
as part of the Manager' s memo possibly soon so that the staff and SWAB have
responded to the BOCC about the SWAB ' s assumptions on developing
options for alternative financing for the next FY
Wilson states because we are not sure when the Commissioners will be able
to give you their decision, we are proceeding based on our knowledge and
experience with developing the programs . We also are concerned that
without alternative financing, we would spend all the reserves keeping the
existing programs running and the finance director would not advise
spending all the reserves .
(Wilson explains the handout, which describes how the tenyear financial
projections are developed by the staff for each program) . The first example
given is the Construction and Demolition Program which, overall, makes
money, generates a surplus, even assuming the ordinance and the facilities
and personnel that accompany that . This is a working document. There are
division budgets, a division may include parts of various programs . These are
not program budgets, they have to be broken down to program cost .
Program cost assume tonnages over time as programs are expanded or
implemented . Or, as in the case of the MSW landfill, cessation of operations
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November 8 , 2001
causes revenue to go to zero but expenditures such as post closure costs
continue . Thus it' s fairly complicated and it was built on the format utilized 3
or 4 years ago, but there have been a lot of changes, thus we have to recreate
It
Pollock explains that every single budget line item is in here for each
program, not only salaries but all the benefits . For example the C &D
educator is in the recycling budget but because what they' re doing pertains to
C &D waste, they become part of the program for this .
Wilson adds that you can also use this spread sheet to determine if you pay
for equipment out of capital, operating or debt financing .
Sassaman ask if you have the most problematical line items .
Wilson states that the ones that are difficult are capital items and those
associated with assumptions of new programs, i . e . the processing facility . We
have to assume size throughput, level of automation, two stream v . single
stream, do we have additional efficiency . How does the tonnage increase
balance against efficiency and the new trucks that will be required ?
How do you phase it in? Do you do it all in one year or phase it in over two
years .
Sassaman suggests using a limited sensitivity analysis .
Wilson replies, we' ve thought about that but want to have the programs all
thought through first before we begin the ' what if' scenarios .
Tipton asks if white good and tire tax reimbursement revenues are shown
there .
Wilson explains that they are not associated with the C&D management
program. They go with the MSW landfill and then switch to the transfer
station . Some of the costs are ascribed due to the fact that we' re also
managing the scrap metal from the C &D there .
There will be a prof orma for a transfer station one, toxicity reduction
program, administration, multifamily collection . Sassaman ask about the time
frame .
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
There are many levels of interaction with the other Departments such as
whether public works will be considering universal rural curbside waste
collection . Do we reduce or eliminate dropoff site collection if that happens .
Wilson states December .
Visser states that there must be a sound baseline of documented assumptions
and then do the sensitivity analysis and come up with a range - - but be
conservative if you ' re going to overstate costs by contrast don' t tell people
that we ' re going to have $ 75 to $100 per year availability fee that might
turnout to be $30 or $40 .
Sassaman states that there are 2 sides to the whole issue — how much is it
going to cost and the alternatives of coming up with the money .
Vickers states we have to come up with the ballpark of the money we need .
Sassaman replies that we ' re charged with the task of suggestions and
recommendations .
Visser states it is possible the SWAB may determine that the cost of meeting
the goals is too great and they may recommend that the goals be
reconsidered . Some of the Commissioners are concerned that when the 61 %
goal was established it was not done with the type of analysis that the SW
staff is doing right now, the detailed analysis of the costs . A possibility
would be to look at X facility what increments of waste reduction does
that achieve at what cost . SO, if we' re at 35 % now, how do we get the next
two percent, then four percent .
Sassaman, you want it in terms of increment per dollar . You dori t want to
spend 50 % of your money to get 5 % more .
Wilson states that when the plan was adopted there was a range of cost . That
was well known, they were not pursuing the plan and goal in a vacuum .
Those costs were prominently displayed in the reports . There are increments
that can walk forward that are cost associated with, but they aren' t just
additive . As you go forward, some of the options affect other programs . They
can merge . We can assume a few percentage points increment but to make
the 15 to 18 % jump, you' re going to run into processing issues . This has all
bee addressed . In one way it' s simple . You' re going to move materials and
you have certain choke points, we' re approaching it now . I could start
collecting commercial recyclables tomorrow but how am I going to prepare
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
and sort them . We can do the increments but at some point in the next 5 - 7
percent reduction range, you will hit the choke point . What gets you through
that point will bump the cost up but will also bump the materials you can
then recycle up also . The first way to do it is to price out the plan, then when
we see what the cost is, we can say what if we don' t have a MRF, what can we
do without it, what can we do to get 5 % and then we go through that process .
Sassaman raises the concern about what will happen to remote landfills five
to ten years in the future .
Wilson agrees this is the most difficult thing of all (to predict the future of the
landfill business ) . The system we' re moving to involves significant economic
risk . There is an intellectual understanding of the risk but there is a large
degree of uncertainty . In Virginia, there is surplus landfill capacity now but
the New York waste may fill that up . If you have to send the stuff long
distances, for example to Pennsylvania, the transportation cost dwarfs the
landfill costs . Those counties that have built long term disposal capacity will
be the envy of all counties . Some are even getting back into the business like
Mecklenberg County . But once you' re out of the business, it' s almost
impossible to get back in .
Vickers discusses the analogy of the hazardous waste landfills being replaced
by hazardous waste incinerators .
Tipton ask what needs to happen to move forward . An intensive work
session — charrette might help .
Sassaman states that it was hoped that the consultant would be in a position
to get us started to see the big picture .
Vickers asks are we at the stage for a charette . The solid waste plan has not
been interpreted into what it means financially .
Jacobs states that maybe we could change the way to define 61 It could be
frozen in 2002 .
Pollock states that statutorily the base was set in 1991 -92, we could go back to
the State and pick another base year .
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November 8 , 2001
Jacobs states the State is tapped out in enforcement and support . It is a very
benign system . We might say that we recommend 61 % as of the year the
County took over Solid Waste operations .
Visser states that 61 % is great but if it' s going to cost a billion dollars to do
that we may not want to proceed
Jacobs states we might want to think creatively about our definitions .
Pollock states that based on this year' s calculation against 1991 -92 we are at a
36 % waste reduction . Arithmetically we are looking to cut 25 % off waste
generation . That boils down to 431 lbs . per person . In another month we will
know if this can be done .
Visser states that the 61 % goal by 2006 is only the goal of the elected officials,
staff and the citizens of Orange County . Another way of looking at it is keep
61 % but do it by 2011 . The Board of Commissioners has said we should be
patting ourselves on the back for the accomplishments made . We are among
the leaders of the state in per capita reduction . Let' s celebrate . If we get
another one or two percent, that' s cause for celebration. The Commissioners
are faced with practical impacts of what it cost to do that and balance that
against all the other things like affordable housing .
Jacobs states that no one wants to back away from being aggressive or a
leader, but if it' s going to take hundreds of thousands of dollars to achieve
2 % , then we need to be creative so that we don' t kill ourselves over a self-
imposed political decision . People are going to say " I can' t back down
because then I won' t be pro-environmental' .
Sassaman suggests that maybe it needs to be spent on source reduction
instead of materials handling .
Something came up in one of the subdivisions, we should start to consider
threshold size of a sub- division at which point there would have to be
mandatory recycling containers for the community as opposed to having to
go to house-to - house . We should build in a central location if it' s more than
twenty five houses . I could push that through the planning process . Does this
group think it' s a good idea, will it save us any money ? Maybe as you come
on line, it should be a requirement that you recycle . We could get the existing
later . We' re losing ground because we' re not being aggressive .
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Regular Meeting - Solid Waste Advisory Board
November S , 2001
Wilson states that in Chapel Hill the Solid Waste staff is involved in the
development review process . All commercial and multi-family
establishments, if it is determined that they will generate enough recycling
materials, are required to set aside space for the containers needed . All new
developments are held to that standard for outdoor storage for .
Jacobs states that is just in Chapel Hill and this needs to be in other
municipalities too . There needs to be some type of an agreement with all the
municipalities . Within our own jurisdiction there need to be standards .
Maybe staff can write a memo . . . . about what they could require . and build
it into the development review process in Orange County and make a
proposal to Hillsborough and Carrboro about what they could require .
Wilson states that all commercial or multifamily projects must have this
before they are approved, but not residential, and that we should continue
with the process we have started to see what the conclusions would be .
Tipton notes you can make the space but it doesn' t mean they' ll use it .
Meeting adjourned 9 pm
Next meeting .
December 13, 2001
Southern Human Service Center
Room D
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