HomeMy WebLinkAboutSWAB minutes 120904 Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
Attendance : Bonnie Norwood, Remus Smith, Linda Bowerman, Al Vickers, and Jan
Sassaman
Staff : Gayle Wilson, Blair Pollock, Wanda McCain, Rebecca Holdway and Rod Visser
Guest : Reese Martin
Sassaman ask new member, Town of Carrboro representative, Linda Bowerman to
tell a little about herself .
Bowerman states that her background is biology and she thought this was an
interesting way to getting more involved in the community .
1 . Adoption of Minutes from November 11 Norwood moves to accept . Vickers 2na ,
Passes unanimously .
2 . Feasibility of Controlled Burning of Land Clearing Debris . Board member Smith
introduces guest Reese Martin who owns an air curtain burner . Martin states that he
runs a small land clearing excavating business in Hillsborough . He states, " I am the
one that generates part of the problem of land clearing waste . Years ago this type of
material could be put in a gullet' or an old pond that would not hold water . My
concern is that eventually we will run out of space and the environmental
implications . I would like to address the problem head on . I ' ve talked with the
Commissioners and Gayle Wilson about ways to manage this problem . It comes
down to managing and disposing the debris in the most economical, environmentally
correct, and the way to use the least amount of fossil fuel . This brings me to the issue
of air curtain or pit burning . The debris can be burned with a small amount of smoke
with the right equipment . "
Martin continues -- there are three avenues to get rid of the waste : hauling to a
landfill, chipping or grinding and incineration . With landfilling the cost of tipping
fees and the mileage are the main issues . Grinding the material, have to transport, the
huge equipment, cost of fuel for the equipment, material has to be stock piled and
separated . Once it is ground, it will have to be stockpiled again and turned to prevent
fires and transported once again to final destination . Incineration with pit burning
includes a large engine driven fan, which develops a huge airflow that is directed into
a pit 30ft long, 10 ft deep , 10ft wide . A fire is started in the pit, the fan directs air into
the pit that raises the temperature of the burn . As smoke rises, it is blown back down
into the fire . This gives a hotter, cleaner burn and reduces waste by 95 % . If you grind
the material, you have not reduced the volume much . As mulch, it may
spontaneously combust . The (potash) material left can be put back into the soil . It is
an environmentally friendly way of doing it .
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
There are several states that allow pit burning including Indiana, Florida,
Pennsylvania, Tennessee, Texas, Missouri, New Mexico, Illinois, California, Kansas,
Georgia, Kentucky, North Dakota, Oklahoma . Also, USDA, US Navy and parts of NC
all allow pit burning . The main concern is the pollution . When I burn I consult the
fire service who has seen this in operation . I need you (fire service ) to know where I
am located if I need you . This will continue to be a problem as long as we continue to
build in Orange County . I am partial to this method if done in the proper way . I ' ve
put in a lot of study before I burn to make sure the [weather] conditions are right .
Vickers asks what are the restrictions of burning in Orange County in use of an air
curtain burner .
Martin states that my understanding is that the BOCC has tried to enact a burning ban
in Orange County . However there is a gray area between what is allowed by the State
and County . They are still issuing burning permits in Orange County and continuing
to burn . I ' ll be first to say ' all burning is not correct ' ; especially where smoke is
generated . It can be inefficient with a lot of dirt left .
Pollock states that after speaking with the Orange County Forest Service person, the
Orange County Fire Marshall and with the Planning Department, the current
interpretation of the County" s ordinance with respect to open burning is that they are
viewing air curtain burner usage the same as if it were open burning . You can still
conduct open burning at your farm, residence for deadfall, brush and controlled
burns for forestry or agriculture . Orange County bans it for landclearing debris . The
key issue for the SWAB to address is should it take on this issue to try to open up the
discussion of the County' s open-burning ordinance to determine if air curtain burning
is a sound method and if the SWAB wants to make a specific suggestion to the BOCC
or further discuss it .
Sassaman states that with burning in an unconfined area if the temperature isn' t high
enough you get products of incomplete combustion that get out, technically called
PICs . PICs deposited down stream can result in dioxin . With the air curtain burning
there seems to be less chance of that . I would raise the question that you might do it
well, but others may not .
Martin states that I take pride in what I do, but that doesn' t mean everyone else will .
That draws the line thinner in terms of what to do . It' s is a problem that has to be
addressed . The mulch market can become saturated, then what do you do with the
material . There are environmental impacts from grinding .
Norwood asks if the machine can burn mulch .
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
Martin states that yes if it' s dry . The mulch particles are too fine . I ' ve never burned
mulch .
Norwood asks what to you do with the waste .
Martin replies cover it up or mix it with water and apply to the land .
Vickers states that the question is if burning is banned, what are you forcing the
industry to do . Are you forcing worse alternatives ? This may not be the most
environmentally perfect system but it ' s better than the alternatives, should we be
saying we want to force them to use the worst alternative .
Norwood asks if you are trying to create a job for yourself with this machine .
Martin states that I own the machine which was purchased before the ban in February
2001 and the meeting where all this came down was November 2001 . I can still burn
landclearing debris for a private owner, not for a subdivision, if it ' s far enough away
from the neighbors .
Norwood asks what would you do to insure that a person with respiratory problems
wouldn' t be affected .
Martin states that you would need to let the adjoining property owners know what
you are doing before hand . I can only answer for myself . In 2001 when I addressed
the County, I suggested having a public and private venture into this . No response
was made . The chairman said he wasn ' t going to get in the burning business . This is
not a sideline business; it is getting rid of the debris that I generate . I made the
investment in this equipment to try to do it [ disposal] in a more environmentally
friendly manner . It may mean that we [contractor] become licensed in order to do
this . I do not want to teach others how to do this so they will compete with me . It ' s
very costly . I don ' t know what other contractors want to do .
Tipton asks that with other states allowing it has there been some type of guidelines,
regulations or licensing for this .
Martin replies no, I have not seen parameters in terms of qualifying someone to burn .
I have only seen restrictions to closeness to houses and roads .
Tipton asks if pit burning were allowed with the necessary qualification and/ or
license, how do you feel contractors will react?
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9 , 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
Martin replies that it would be a plus . They will have to comply . It is a matter of time
before a paper trail is required to track the clearing debris .
Smith asks how many loads would Hillsborough, for example, need to make an
efficient burn with this type of machine .
Martin replies about 100 loads .
Smith asks what in your opinion would it be detrimental for Hillsborough to go into
this business ?
Martin states that there areaa t too many good things to say about it .
Norwood asks if there are OSHA issues ? How can you have such a large hole with a
fire and not have something to keep people out?
Martin states that when you do this at the end of the day the hole is covered . You
can' t have protection around it because you are constantly loading the pit .
Bowerman asks if this [burning] is to be done at the site you are clearing?
Martin states that my intention in 1996 was to start a green waste recycling facility . It
would be a facility in the northern part of the county where debris is brought and
burned .
Smith asks how far would you need to be from a house to do a burn?
Martin replies 500 feet .
Pollock states that Hillsborough has some regulations that does permit pit burning
within the Town of Hillsborough . There is a 1000 ft limit . The question for the SWAB
is do you want to move forward with any respect to this .
Norwood asks that if it comes to you [Martin] wouldn' t you be competing with fees at
the landfill ?
Pollock states that we don' t get a lot of that type of debris because of the tipfee .
Sassaman states that before we would get into any type of recommendation stage we
would need to look at more detail and life cycle type costs . Whatever we do will need
to be done in the context of the revised Solid Waste Management Plan . I ' ve worked
with designing an incineration facility and I know that it can be done safely and
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
environmentally sound . But it takes a lot of training and oversight to make sure it is
done properly .
Vickers states that we need to come to some kind of recommendation of how it should
be approached or what the issues are .
Smith states that my thinking of having him here is that we are an advisory
committee, and that there has to be someone elsewhere doing a better job with their
solid waste than we are . It would behoove us to find out who that is . I did not know
Reese Martin had a curtain burner . As stated by Mr . Martin there are three ways to
go, bury, grind or burn; we need to find out what is the most efficient way so that we
can advise the Commissioners .
Sassaman states there are a lot of issues associated with it including the marketability
of the mulch .
Vickers states that on-site air curtain burning is one thing but having a stationary site
brings on new set of rules pertaining to incineration .
Tipton states that it is important to separate the two types of burning . There are four
ways, not three - landfilling, mulching, open burning and air curtain burning .
Sassaman there are other techniques including digestion .
Pollock states that regulatorily up till now that distinction between the two types of
burning is a key point . When talking to the County planning department they had
not made the distinction [between open burning and air curtain burning] I made the
point that do we want to let the issues of health and safety drive the discussion .
Bonnie raised the point about downwind smoke affecting asthmatic neighbors . The
pit burner generates very little smoke so the downwind health issue is minimized . I
don ' t know about the safety issues with embers, etc . What other issues like solid
waste planning issues tend to drive the discussion?
Sassaman states that an important element would be to permit the burner . Then you
have punitive mechanisms when you know where they are .
Pollock says maybe we should look other locations and develop some performance
data .
Vickers notes it ' s still generating smoke and ash .
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
3 . Annual Solid Waste Mange Report to BOCC Sassaman states that in an effort to
educate elected officials on what we are doing, Gayle has provided an outline of what
an annual solid waste report should include .
Pollock states that staff has contemplated in the past doing a report to the governing
board detailing the accomplishments of the SWAB for a time period . We have not
done that other than the newsletter . The Commission on the Environment is doing
their report, so that was an impetus for a separate Solid Waste Report . The outcome of
that was this outline . Staff proposes that, because of a timing issue for this year, we
just get it together for next year rather than try to target the BOCC ' s annual retreat .
There are other options for time of presentation . Issues on the table are the notion of
this outline and the notion of the timing how deep into the following fiscal year is it
useful to discuss the previous fiscal year ' s work . Thus the issues are the timing, this
particular outline, and the overarching notion if having an annual report to the
Commissioners is a good idea .
Sassaman states that an annual or semi-annual report would be good . If it is a large
report 20 -30 pages it becomes burden to do it every year . You should be judicious of
what you put in and how big the report is . How much of the information do you
already have to put together a report this year ?
Pollock states that looking at this outline as a checklist most of the material is readily
available .
Smith asks what information other than program and service are we wanting them to
know?
Sassaman states that part of it is blowing our horn . I raise the issue to staff, if it is
feasible to come up with a 6-10 page report in the next two months ?
Pollock states that it isn' t infeasible to do it but what do you want to say other than
summarize . It is not a problem to go back to last year' s data and present a couple of
pages of data summary issues . It is a significant amount of work as you look at this
outline to make sure that we present to the BOCC the things we really want them to
know in this key issues and challenges section and State and Federal legislation . We
don ' t want to get ahead of ourselves in terms of what we ' re going to say in terms of
the solid waste plan . In the last section of the outline would you the chairman and
other board members be willing to write that. What do we want to accomplish and
what time frame of getting it to the BOCC .
Sassaman states that stuff from the SWAB has already been written . A lot of the other
information could be combined . The things the elected officials would like to know
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
are how many tons are landfilled, what are the changes in landfill patterns, how many
tons are recycled, what are the changes in recycling, what are the materials that we
recycle, what are the potential for recycling additional materials . The accomplishment
of the SWAB could be paired off against the key issues and challenges faced by the
Solid Waste Management Department .
Pollock states that if you have a consensus of the SWAB to present something to the
BOCC this year, I can get with Gayle we can talk about a timetable . You may want to
change some things in this outline .
Smith looks for ways to pare it down .
Vickers states that with solid waste management there are four main areas to
approach, inert debris [and] , emergency management waste, construction waste,
municipal waste and recycling . Determine which are the most important in the next
couple of years and focus on that .
Pollock states that that is one way to do it . It makes more of a white paper than a full
report .
Norwood states that I agree that it should be short but also praise ourselves on our
accomplishments and at the end give information on what' s being worked on .
Sassaman states that part of what we are doing at the same time is that we ' re giving
the Commissioners just before the January 22 meeting is our plan of what we want to
do for the next year . We ' ve done this for the past few years, setting goals . I know the
Chapel Hill Town Council is restive about this whole issue [ of the solid waste plan] .
We need to be proactive . Randy Kabrick told the Chapel Hill Town Council that since
they didn ' t sign the County ' s solid waste plan, they had to come up with their own or
they were in violation of state law . He got them quite worried . I am not sure of the
law on this . They were unhappy that they got a fee and got nothing new for it . I see
this report going to all the elected officials . Are there any alternative ideas about the
outline presented in this memo ?
Tipton states that it should highlight what is on the radar screen . The SWAB could do
their portion of what it thinks is on its radar screen or what should be; each
jurisdiction would have something else for its radar screen . It shouldn ' t be just us
agreeing on what ' s on there, although we need to spend some time on this .
Sassaman states that maybe we could do that way or do it as the Solid Waste
Management enterprise and the SWAB as a group putting the report together . Not
getting what each jurisdiction thinks . I ' m raising these issues because I already know
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
what Chapel Hill thinks and we can be proactive to give them information . The way
to go is to get something in their hands that they will read and understand but not try
to tell them what their issues are . We could have this ready by the next meeting .
Pollock asks what does the SWAB want to do to carry back to Gayle for decision
making from the staff side ?
Sassaman polls the group for consensus on having a ten-page report to have in time
for the January 22 retreat .
Pollock suggest having it ready for the February meeting .
Norwood states that the idea is good but it appears to be a lot of pressure for staff .
Pollock states that we could produce something of value by that time .
Sassaman states that I am suggesting a term paper not a doctoral dissertation .
Vickers states that my concept is simple it ' s to have the four waste streams build out
from there and hit the financial issues that the County needs to address .
Pollock states that if you want just an issues report, I will present it to Gayle that way .
4 . Input for BOCC Annual Planning Retreat Sassaman passes out draft response [to
BOCC questionaire] . Please email any changes . The two issues for top priority is to
revise the Solid Waste Management Plan and to develop and implement better
communication for the stakeholders in what we are doing .
5 . Program /Services Update Nezv C&D Landfill Pollock states that construction is
continuing and it' s about 85 % complete . We expect the existing C &D landfill to be
full this summer and will start using the new one which should last for the next 17
years .
February 8, 2005 BOCC Solid Waste Worlc Session Pollock states that we will have the
Boards full attention for at least an hour .
Other Pollock states that staff has begun work on the revisions of the Solid Waste
Management Plan . We are looking at a couple of specific things regarding a
reanalysis of a MRF and the kinds of materials that can go there . We hope to bring
you something in the next couple of months . The overall projectory is to be done by
spring of 2006 .
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Minutes - Regular Meeting
Solid Waste Advisory Board
December 9, 2004
Approved January 6, 2005
6 . Other Norwood asks why the oil tank at the Eubanks SWCC is not on concrete and in
the shed ?
Pollock replies that we are pouring a pad there .
Smith moves to adjourn . Norwood 2nd
Adjourn 9 : 10pm
Next meeting : January 6, 2005
Southern Human Services
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