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HomeMy WebLinkAboutOUTBoard minutes 111908Approved 2/18/09 1 MINUTES 1 ORANGE UNIFIED TRANSPORTATION BOARD REGULAR MEETING 2 NOVEMBER 19, 2008 3 4 MEMBERS PRESENT: Sam Lasris, Cedar Grove Township; Nancy Cole Baker, Pedestrian Access Advocate; 5 Alice Gordon, Board of County Commissioners; Jan Grossman, Bicycle Transportation Advocate; Julian (Randy) 6 Marshall, Bingham Township; Paul Guthrie, Chapel Hill Township; Karen Barrows, Little River Township; Eric 7 Tillman, Hillsborough Township; Bryn Smith, CFE Representative; 8 9 MEMBERS ABSENT: Al Terry, Transportation Services Board Representative; Dawn Brezina, Eno Township; 10 EDC Representative, Vacant 11 12 STAFF PRESENT: Karen Lincoln, Transportation Planner; Tina Love, Administrative Assistant II 13 14 I. Call to order 15 16 II. Consideration of additions to the agenda 17 18 III. Board Comments/Updates 19 20 Paul Guthrie: I just wanted to mention that we started the rail process. 21 22 Sam Lasris: We saw you were appointed, congratulations 23 24 Paul Guthrie: We had our first meeting of the task force on the location of the rail for Amtrak in Hillsborough it was 25 more or less an organizational meeting. The task force was appointed by the Board of County Commissioners and 26 the Town of Hillsborough after the informal “Focus on Hillsborough Train Stop” group recommended it. A couple of 27 key issues we should follow: where is the most effective place for the railroad station; and the other is that this is 28 really the first look at a major change in the utilization in that corridor. Over the next five to ten years it’s likely the 29 high speed rail will make it to Raleigh. The next step in that process is Raleigh to Charlotte and then on to Atlanta. 30 Ten to fifteen years out that rail corridor may support high speeds passenger rail, commuter rail, and whatever 31 Amtrak is now doing and Amtrak may be the lowest user. When you come to the decision on where to put the 32 location, the question before the group will be do you only look at what will be the good utilization for Hillsborough 33 now, or do you also look at long term issues that could affect the scope of the project down the road taking in the 34 high speed rail. The bigger issue is the development of transportation hubs for the future that will be multimodal 35 interchange points. It has implications that go ahead for a great many years. 36 37 Nancy Baker asked if they had to do with the rail itself or just the stop. 38 39 Paul Guthrie answered that it was the stop and the 200 foot corridor. It will be a minimum of two rails once the 40 southeast system goes into place. It may eventually be three rails. There is a 200-foot right of way owned by the 41 State of North Carolina (NCRR). In answering a question posed by Sam Lasris about strategic growth, Paul stressed 42 the choices of choosing a station location either for future use in terms of facility development or for a very simple but 43 accessible stop now, knowing that you may have to change it in the future. 44 45 Eric Tillman asked if when the high speed comes in, will they even consider Hillsborough for a stop and was told 46 probably not. But commuter rail would probably have several stops between Hillsborough and Mebane. It all 47 depends on passenger load, public and private transportation, connecting feeders, the whole issue of public access 48 to the highways, and what it does to neighborhoods. 49 50 Sam Lasris asked that he give a handout of the recommended criteria used to locate the station. Paul and Karen 51 Lincoln will work on getting the information. 52 53 Alice Gordon talked about the presentation from Scott Sailor of the North Carolina Railroad Company and shared 54 information on the commuter rail study that has been commissioned. The study is for capital improvements needed 55 Approved 2/18/09 2 for commuter rail, and is not a market study. NCRR is a private corporation owned completely by the State of North 56 Carolina. 57 58 Paul Guthrie pointed out the route structure and shared route information and that the big challenge is the connector 59 feeder lines that support the infrastructure. 60 61 Alice Gordon advised that the consultant was asked to work with the two MPOs trying to get a seamless interface 62 and they agreed. That could really be important to get something concrete, something on the ground then you could 63 protect the corridor. 64 65 Nancy Baker updated the Board on the Safe Routes to School and advised she and Karen Lincoln had met with the 66 consultants and the consultants are working out the scope of work details with DOT. Once that is done they can start 67 planning some meetings. 68 69 Karen Lincoln announced that the Board of County Commissioners adopted the Comprehensive Plan with revisions. 70 Also, the commissioners approved all the reappointments to the OUTBoard. 71 72 Alice Gordon shared the reasoning behind the changes to the OUTBoard’s proposal and that she hopes that they 73 feel that all the good work was still there. She let everyone know how much she appreciates the hard work. She 74 explained about the paperwork used for the MPO and the criteria dealing with environmental impacts. 75 76 IV. Approval of Minutes 77 78 The approval of minutes was deferred to the next OUTBoard meeting. 79 80 V. Comments regarding four (4) fiscally constrained options to be considered for the Preferred Option 81 for the Durham-Chapel Hill-Carrboro (DCHC) Metropolitan Planning Organization (MPO) 2035 Long 82 Range Transportation Plan (LRTP) 83 84 Karen Lincoln gave a handout on the four options. The first transit option is an intensive bus system having no fixed 85 guideway service but lots of local bus system expansion with peak headways of 10-20 minutes and off peak 86 headways of 15-30 minutes. This would also included expansion of the express buses and regional bus expansion 87 to more communities and employment center circulators. The second option is commuter rail. It would have the 88 same intensity as bus transit and would have more bus feeder service to the commuter rail stations, with commuter 89 service from Hillsborough to downtown Durham to RTP to downtown Raleigh and eastward. Paul Guthrie interjected 90 that there was equal emphasis going westbound to Burlington/Greensboro. Karen Lincoln added that some of the 91 bus services are also looking into that area. The commuter rail from Durham to Carrboro would be via the spur at 92 university station that runs southwest to Carrboro. This option also includes bus rapid transit from downtown 93 Durham to UNC Chapel Hill, but no light rail. The fourth option is the Special Transit Advisory Commission (STAC) 94 recommendation for the diesel multiple unit (DMU) technology, from Duke to downtown Raleigh in the corridor 95 proposed for the first phase of the “old” Triangle Transit regional rail program with light rail transit from Duke to UNC 96 where there is no existing rail corridor. There is a new alternative, option 4, that is uses only electric light rail for all 97 fixed guideway. An initial analysis indicated much greater ridership in the same corridor for the light rail option than 98 for the split modal option (DMU and light rail). The difference is because you lose riders every time riders have to 99 change mode to complete a trip. 100 101 Alice Gordon added that there was a meeting of the Transportation Advisory Committee (TAC) of the two MPOs in 102 the Triangle area. The Transportation Advisory Committee is the governing board of the Metropolitan Planning 103 Organization (MPO) and is composed of elected officials. The two TACs met and both governing boards were 104 interested in the new option for light rail. People think it is a good long-range vision and they think that electric is a 105 good vision. The elected officials said they are supporting the light rail/electric option. It’s very likely that the 106 Durham-Chapel Hill-Carrboro (DCHC) MPO TAC is going to adopt the light rail option the two MPOs thought was 107 best. There are some costs options they were also willing to approve. When it went out for public comment, there 108 were four transit options. Now it looks like the emerging consensus is for light rail. 109 110 Approved 2/18/09 3 Karen Lincoln advised that there would only be commuter rail in areas where people want it and where the local 111 areas support it and can provide the rail transit operational services. 112 113 Paul Guthrie suggested a map overlaying the commuter rail with the light rail. He thinks the viability will be very high 114 due to costs and that loop routes are far more inexpensive to operate than dead end routes. There is a right of way 115 to make that connection. So by the time this happens you could have a circular route in Orange County from 116 University Station down to the south side of Chapel Hill going back up to the east side of Chapel Hill and making that 117 transit loop. It is also less neighborhood-disturbing. 118 119 Sam Lasris asked where bus feeder services fits in. Where does the private sector fit and will the facilities be 120 available. 121 122 Eric Tillman commented that by 2035, government will be totally in control of transportation. The overhead is so high 123 that it won’t be worth it to try to feed into these options at all. Private transportation providers will be totally 124 eliminated. He believes there will not be enough business to sustain private transportation enterprises. The 125 business is shrinking partly due to the massive overhead involved. 126 127 Paul Guthrie responded that it would be more accurate on light rail but on rail commuter connectivity is essential to a 128 distribution system. He added that there are two factors, location and population increase. As density increases that 129 kind of equation will change significantly. 130 131 Eric Tillman responded that the private sector is paying taxes into a system that is slowly eliminating it and that the 132 use of private industry should be incorporated into the plan along with government expansion of transportation. 133 134 Sam Lasris suggested that in the comments going back that the suggestion to include more in regard to the private 135 sector in the plan. 136 137 Paul Guthrie added that it should go beyond that to include the private sector being totally involved in the process. 138 139 On discussing the options Paul Guthrie stated that he was not comfortable with the amount of information in order to 140 choose an option. He thinks in the next 48 months there will be large scale access to capital to start funding these. I 141 think you’ll see massive investments from federal government, job creating enterprises, transit extension is going to 142 be one of those. I think strategically we should move all of this forward but always keep an eye on that long-range 143 objective of building the total system. Sam Lasris added that commuter rail makes sense and thinks it should be part 144 of the plans. 145 146 Karen Lincoln talked about the fact that when constraining the plan this says where the federal dollars are to go 147 which means not widening, and not doing the improvements for the commuter rail and not providing money to 148 Triangle Transit to operate commuter rail service. We’ll have to work the best we can with what we have. She 149 advised that the local source revenue is assuming ½ cent increase in Durham and Orange County sales tax and ¼ 150 increase in Chatham County from 2011 through 2035 and an additional $10 car registration fee in those counties. 151 Chapel Hill already has authority for a $10 registration fee so it would be $20 in Chapel Hill. Those are the additional 152 revenues forecast. Also because the other systems will take time to put in place, some road improvements are 153 proposed since some of those can be done quickly. High Occupancy Vehicle (HOV) lanes have been included. 154 Recommended highway improvements are also partly related to the TIP funding sources where certain money can 155 only be used for certain things. 156 157 Nancy Baker pointed out the connectivity problem with RTP and that the routes go from Chapel Hill and Raleigh to 158 Durham and then to RTP and that a direct rail route to RTP should be added. 159 160 Karen Lincoln advised that it was partly a right of way issue. A major investment study has already been done for 161 the US 15-501 corridor. 162 163 Consensus was to see both light rail and commuter rail in the final option and to ensure that the private transportation 164 providers are included in the process and utilization of the privates carriers at the end points of transportation links. 165 166 Approved 2/18/09 4 VI. UNC-CH Airport Siting 167 168 Sam Lasris asked the member to review the letter from the County Commissioner to Dr. Thorpe that he passed out. 169 170 Karen Lincoln let the Board know that at the BOCC meeting the night before (11/18/08) citizen Glen Wallace spoke 171 and urged the County to act before the airport authority becomes active in siting the facility in order to protect scenic 172 byways and enact ordinances to offer protection to the scenic byways in Orange County. She also let them know 173 that the Planning Board had written a letter that is part of the OUTBoard packet. 174 175 Paul Guthrie said that he had read very carefully the statute that created the mess and he thinks it is without limit and 176 totally counter to the way the way the County and State operates. It removes or seriously hampers County 177 governance and could potentially void all the work that has been done on good planning and rezoning. 178 179 Alice Gordon suggested that since it says that the stricter zoning will apply that if Orange County doesn’t want this 180 and the County needs to act quickly to make changes. 181 182 Paul Guthrie offered that he has the economic analysis used as backing for this on disk if anyone wants it and that 183 you can also find it on Will Raymond’s blog (www.citizenwill.org). 184 185 Bryn Smith commented that North Carolina is home to the one person who conquered eminent domain (Hugh 186 Morton). He prevented the Blue Ridge Parkway from cutting into Grandfather Mountain. 187 188 VII. OUTBoard Fiscal 2008-2009 Calendar 189 190 Karen Lincoln asked the members to review Attachment 2 for accuracy. She asked that the board advise her of any 191 information needs that she could provide for the committees. 192 193 Sam Lasris asked if the Board needs to get direction from the BOCC on the initiatives. He mentioned the bike plan 194 and asked Alice Gordon about it. 195 196 Alice Gordon explained that it started on the 1999 priority bicycle routes so if it was related Karen wrote it in the 197 information. Your recommendations didn’t match and I don’t think you had that and Commissioner Jacobs wanted it 198 done again. One problem is that DOT doesn’t fund as transportation any recreational routes. Alice also added that 199 the reason for prioritizing is to target funding. 200 201 Karen Lincoln added that the BOCC voted for this Board to come up with a bike plan, she did add that you do have to 202 have a transportation element. She thinks one thing with the existing bike plan is that they did prioritize routes and 203 normally you don’t prioritize routes, you just say these are the ones we want and use opportunities as they become 204 available to implement projects. There is a strong emphasis on connectivity of off-road as well on-road facilities. She 205 thinks the Board could work on a bike plan that combines the two. Having a transportation element and how the 206 other things are connected. She offered that first part of doing the plans is to develop a structure, an outline, and 207 what needs to take place, and get the Commissioners to approve it and give further guidance. If a consultant is 208 needed it will have to be included and allow for public involvement. 209 210 Jan Grossman said it can be put together, he noted that the only way to get routes is when roads are being improved 211 or subdivisions are being put in. 212 213 Karen Lincoln noted that in looking at those routes you could look at areas that would be suitable for riding if you had 214 this curve straightened out or if you had a little bit more paving rather than looking for outright bike lanes. 215 216 Sam Lasris asked if the bike plan was a free standing plan or if it gets folded into the comprehensive transportation 217 plan, also if there is a time frame. 218 219 Karen Lincoln answered that it is part of the transportation plan and there is a requirement in urbanized areas, but not 220 in counties, to develop Comprehensive Transportation Plans (CTPs). The MPO plans to start working on a CTP in 221 Approved 2/18/09 5 2009. CTP is developed for the entire county. She and Pat Strong have had discussions with the State regarding 222 the process in Orange County. NCDOT staff has to be involved in the planning process. NCDOT is considering 223 placing some of the planning functions in the division offices. If that happens perhaps we could use that planning 224 person from DOT with this Board and the appropriate amount of public input. Then she and Pat could work within 225 that framework to development the Comprehensive Transportation Plan. She suggested working with Parks and 226 Recreation to see what type of facilities they anticipate so that they can be incorporated. 227 228 Alice Gordon added that it is better to have it on the CTP than to not have it on the CTP because the CTP is not 229 fiscally constrained. 230 231 Sam Lasris referred to the OUTBoard making changes to Economic Design Manual and the fact that transportation 232 elements are missing or outdated. 233 234 Consensus was that this is something that the OUTBoard would need to be charged to do by either the Board of 235 County Commissioners or the Planning Board. 236 237 Karen Lincoln advised that the bicycle plan be an immediate need and after discussing the 1999 plan the consensus 238 that it was a good plan and to use it with modifications. 239 240 VIII. Adjournment 241 242 There being no further business, the meeting was adjourned. 243 244 Items for next meeting: 245 Spreadsheet showing priorities 246 Handout with rail station parameters and criteria 247 Committees list 248 Map overlaying the long term commuter rail on the light rail map. 249 250 ____________________________________ Sam Lasris, Chair