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Home My WebLink AboutOUTBoard minutes 081507 1 1 MINUTES ORANGE UNIFIED TRANSPORTATION BOARD MEETING AUGUST 15, 2007 MEMBERS PRESENT: Commissioner Alice Gordon Jan Grossman; Randy Marshall; Robert Peterson; Pascale Mittendorf; Sandra Quinn, Nancy Cole Baker, Bryn Smith MEMBERS ABSENT: Elisabeth Lake (Resigned); Al Terry; James Ray; Sam Lasris; Eric Tillman; STAFF PRESENT: Karen Lincoln, Transportation Planner; Donna Davenport, Administrative Assistant Others Present: Pat Strong, Triangle J Council of Governments, Mike Stanley, NCDOT I. Call to order and roll call II. Consideration of additions to the agenda Karen Lincoln: On the August 21 meeting of the Board of County Commissioners there will be an item for appointments to the OUTBoard. We will still have vacancies for a Cheeks Township member and a Little River Township member. Also, about Mount Carmel Church Road, a citizen contacted Commissioner Carey asking for some help in working with DOT. Commissioner Cary wrote a letter to DOT to reiterate some of the problems you’ve talked about on Mt. Carmel Church Road, and he received a response from Mike Mills. Robert Peterson: I would like to see the letter from that person. Karen Lincoln: I can get a copy of the email and the letter to you. Nancy Baker: Can we talk about Orange Grove Road? Karen Lincoln: We were told that with resurfacing the road, NCDOT would widen the shoulders to make it consistent with the previous work. I spoke with Chuck Edwards and he said that there had been a communication problem at NCDOT. The project manager was on vacation when Orange Grove Road was resurfaced and apparently no one else working on the resurfacing program that week knew that the addition of 2-ft. shoulders had been approved with the resurfacing. It should be done next year with resurfacing of the next section of Orange Grove Road. Robert Peterson: On the agenda, I am not sure how far we need to go with Agenda Item #6. We may be able to shrink that down. 2 2 III. Board Comments IV. Approval of Minutes of June 20, 2007 meeting Jan Grossman: On page 5, line 240, there should be two sentences (not one) and it should read, “Is there any way we can get DOT to let us know if that plan was correct. Could the transportation system….” MOTION made by Randy Marshall accept the minutes with corrections. Seconded by Nancy Baker: V. Presentation on Transportation Funding Sources and Agencies Mike Stanley: I would like to talk about the TIP (Transportation Improvement Program), which is a Seven Year Program. I would like to talk about where the money goes, where the money comes from and specifically what some of the constraints are. We work with the MPOs and RPOs to solicit projects and we also receive requests from citizens. We establish a priority list. The TIP that comes out does not necessarily match what we started with. I would like to talk about why that works that way. Robert Peterson: When you say “us”, you mean NCDOT. How does the process work? Mike Stanley: I have a process chart to share with you. I work with TIP Unit, which is in the Project Development Branch of the State Budget and Finance Division. Our branch deals primarily in the funding program realm. We have two major functions; one is the preparation and development of the Transportation Improvement Program as well as ancillary activities that relate to funding a project. The other major function is a project management group that is responsible for funding authorization as well and maintaining and monitoring the schedule for the TIP. I work with divisions 5, 7, 8 and 9. I would like to go through the attached set of slides. The DOT budget comes from three sources: the State Highway Fund; the State Highway Trust Fund; and Federal Aid. The Highway Fund cannot be used for TIP projects. It is used for maintenance based on system needs, contract resurfacing, small projects and capital and operating costs for the ferry system, public transit, NC Rail Road and the Department of Motor Vehicles. Alice Gordon: What are the small amounts? Mike Stanley: The budget recently passed and the small construction was 28 million dollars. There is ¼ million dollar cap per project. Spot safety was about 9 million dollars. Public Industrial Access was about 2 million dollars. Those are projects like funding road access to industrial sites. Alice Gordon: What is small urban? 3 3 Mike Stanley: What is now called small construction. Alice Gordon: How are these allocated; is it to the board members around the state, are they discretionary? Mike Stanley: It is $2 million per division and it is an application process. Karen Lincoln: Where does the Economic Development funding fall in this diagram? Mike Stanley: There are actually three different parts. There is a senate bill, the Public Industrial Act and a TIP set aside for economic development. Karen Lincoln: Could you talk about that when it is appropriate? Mike Stanley: The State programs $10 million for urban and $10 million for rural economic development projects in the TIP over a seven year period. Randy Marshall: What is the source of the Highway Fund? Mike Stanley: Motor fuels tax, license and other fees. One-half cent of the motor fuels tax goes to cleanup of leaking underground storage tanks. Of the remaining revenues, 75% goes to the Highway Fund and 25% goes to the Highway Trust Fund. Let’s look at the Highway Trust Fund (HTF), which was established in 1989. The HTF is less than one third of our budget. It was constructed with specific purposes so the money can only be used for those purposes. The bulk of the trust fund, minus a supplement for secondary road construction and State Aid to Municipalities (the Powell Bill funds), goes into two programs: the Urban Loop Program and the Intra-State Program. The Intra-State Program is a 3,600-mile multi-lane road network specifically named in the legislation. Nancy Baker: What roads are included? Mike Stanley: The only project in Orange County is the I-85 widening project. The closest project that is not complete is the NC 158 Corridor in Oxford. Randy Marshall: Would the widening of Hwy 54 be one of these projects? Mike Stanley: No. Pascale Mittendorf: How much of the 3,600 miles is complete? Mike Stanley: Over 70% complete. The last mileage figure was about 940 miles remaining to be completed. 4 4 Robert Peterson: You are talking about making all two-lane highways into four-lane highways? Mike Stanley: Only on this system. Robert Peterson: How many total miles of roads are there in North Carolina? Mike Stanley: Just under 80,000. Pascale Mittendorf: Regarding the 3,600 miles; the General Assembly would not be in a position to allocate that money? Mike Stanley: There is a provision to change the formula. Jan Grossman: Does the road have to be in this list to be eligible? Mike Stanley: Yes. Finally, we have Federal Aid money from Washington that has to be matched. Typically federal aid would provide 80 percent (for a project) the State provides 20 percent. The State’s match would come from the Highway Trust Fund. Jan Grossman: You can do that even though it is not going toward one of those roads. Mike Stanley: Because it is in the statute. The statute allows for a fund transfer, an administrative take down primarily for NCDOT to manage the program and the Federal aid match. Federal money comes in various core programs. There are also small miscellaneous programs, which make up one percent of our budget. Money is also earmarked for some high priority projects. Nancy Baker: Can you give an example? Mike Stanley: The American Tobacco Trail. Nancy Baker: I don’t see anything about pedestrian or bike trails. Mike Stanley: CMAQ (Congestion Mitigation and Air Quality) is used for sidewalks and bike lanes or anything that would have an established benefit for improving air quality. Jan Grossman: Are you showing how the State is dividing it? How do they know what is earmarked? Mike Stanley: When Congress designates earmarks, it works out to six percent and Congress decides what to do with it. 5 5 Robert Peterson: When you hear about a 250 million dollar bridge in Alaska, do they have a billion dollar portion and 250 million dollars had to go to that project? Mike Stanley: Earmarks can be referred to as below the line or above the line. They (Congress) start with a gross revenue number, and set aside money for administration and other purposes. Then they may take money off the top for what is earmarked. We treat that as new money because we have no way of knowing how much we could get. Then they apportion money to the states. Interstate maintenance money, 12% of the Federal Surface Transportation Program, can only be used for pavement repairs but you cannot add capacity. Randy Marshall: Why is that federal money not used for funding the widening of Highway I-85 in Orange County? Mike Stanley: We have a source of federal aid money for that, which is based on the functional classification of a road, and we have federal money for other projects. Mike noted the slide of System Eligibility by Funding Source and pointed out that of the 80,000 miles of the State Maintained System, about 60,000 miles are not eligible for Trust Fund or federal aid funds. Nancy Baker: What would be an example of a road that is not eligible for Trust Fund dollars or federal aid dollars? Mike Stanley: Rogers Road. I think Homestead would be eligible. Jan Grossman: Eubanks would not be eligible? Mike Stanley: I am not sure; I would need to look at the map. Weaver Diary would be a minor arterial. Pascale Mittendorf: Do you have NC routes that are not federally owned? Mike Stanley: A number of secondary roads such as Estes, Homestead and Weaver Diary are numbered as State secondary roads but are still classified in the federal functional classification. Now that we have our TIP budget, the state law says the funding should be distributed geographically across the state and they established a formula to do that. The state is divided into funding regions. Orange County is located in Region B. Whether you are talking about regions or divisions 50% of the money is distributed proportionally to the percentage of the State population in that division or region. 25% of the money is distributed evenly to every. The remaining 25% of the funds are distributed based on the number of miles remaining in State Highway Trust Fund Urban Loop projects in that 6 6 Region. Orange County would get credit for the number of miles in the I-85 widening project. Nancy Baker: Do you get the credit if the project is complete? Mike Stanley: You get the money for the project to be completed but the fact is that you get the money if you complete it or not. Alice Gordon: I am not quite sure how the equity funds work over time. Mike Stanley: Basically it is tied into 7 year TIP. We have to apply this formula for each TIP. Each division has to be within a target they have configured and you can be within 10% of that number. That rarely happens in the real world. There is provision in the law that adjusts it. Each TIP cycle, you look back at the previous allocations and what the NCDOT actually authorized and you see where the imbalance is and you adjust the current TIP distribution by that equity factor. Alice Gordon: Sometimes it takes people by surprise. Orange County has not gotten its equitable share. Mike Stanley: It is a regional or divisional allocation. The 10 urban loops and CMAQ are not counted against the equity. The federal transit funds are typically awarded on an application grants basis. There is no set allocation. Discretionary money tends to be above the line or money off the top. Alice Gordon: In terms of grants, how does North Carolina fair with that money and how does that work? Mike Stanley: The federal funding process is convoluted. North Carolina has been known as a donor state. The share of money you get back from Washington is a percentage of all the money that goes to Washington form the Federal excise tax and truck taxes. If you are a donor state, the percentage of money that comes back is smaller than the amount you send to Washington, as a proportion of all the money sent to Washington. What was the total revenue and expenditure that came into the Trust Fund? What is the relevant share? Typically we get back 70% of what we send. TEA21 established the minimum guarantee, which says that each state should get back 90% minimum. It was theoretically raised to 92% in 2009. The rumor is the trust fund will go broke in 2009. Nancy Baker: How can it go broke? Mike Stanley: Washington is appropriating more out that it is taking in. Jan Grossman: What has made NC that kind of state? 7 7 Mike Stanley: Historically, NC has been absent on committee that deals with that until now. Howard Coble is a member of an appropriating committee. That is slowly changing. Alice Gordon: There is not much you can do unless the elected officials change the local impact. Robert Peterson: What about the bill in the House to allow counties to levy a registration fee? Karen Lincoln: That was for public transportation. Alice Gordon: This was not a good year for transportation. Robert Peterson: Can you institute a tax? Alice Gordon: They have to be passed by referendums. That doesn’t apply this year. The county is not in the transportation business in a way the other states are. Robert Peterson: I have seen counties have lower sales tax. Alice Gordon: I haven’t gotten the scoop. It looks like we won’t benefit this year. The transportation process is what we need to deal with. Robert Peterson: It sounds like for the long term TIP, the federal funding has gone further down. Mike Stanley: It depends on what happens. The gas tax goes toward the maintenance. Alice Gordon: It is easier if the market raises the gas tax. When DOT is doing forecasts, they end up with a different forecast later. What happened? Mike Stanley: They use a model. They look at the markets and trends on the state side. On the federal side, we don’t have many tools to work with to get a solid projection. Alice Gordon: This group was working on a priority list and the money went down. Mike Stanley: The MPOs have to have a long range plan that is financially constrained. We don’t get good numbers for projected future costs of projects. Alice Gordon: There were two conferences; they are saying that there will be less money coming from the federal side for transportation and other local needs. Nancy Baker: When you are speaking, I think of pots of money. How much money should we keep in mind when we think of prioritizing? 8 8 Mike Stanley: The reality check is the timeline of projects. We get priority lists and have a hard time because they don’t fit the money we get. When you send the priority list, prioritize it they way you want it done. It is partly recognizing the reality that if all your priority needs are eligible for STP dollars, you are competing with all the projects from all other parts of the state. Alice Gordon: Should Orange County focus on CMAQ and STP? Mike Stanley: Because of funding constraints, a lot of the priority project requests are only eligible for those. Robert Peterson: We might ask for a project that costs too much to be funded by CMAQ. Mike Stanley: A long standing project in Carrboro is widening Estes Drive for bicycle lanes. The problem is from a planning and environmental standpoint,. Much of the STP funding is geared toward the planning and environmental process. We eat up much of our STP project money on projects that have been in the mill a long time It is the sheer dollar size of the project that matters. Jan Grossman: Is it possible to see where Orange County’s top three priority projects fell? Jan Grossman: I think this group would be thrilled if we got one or two projects. Mike Stanley: That would be one or two per division. Karen Lincoln: Are the feasibility studies funded through the TIP? Mike Stanley: Basically, before we establish a TIP budget, we take 10% off the top as an allowance for feasibility studies. Robert Peterson: Our number one project is the pedestrian bridge, what funding pot would that come from? Mike Stanley: It is listed as an enhancement project in the TIP but in terms of eligibility it would be STP or CMAQ funds. Robert Peterson: Does anyone remember how much it cost? Karen Lincoln: I don’t think we have a project cost. That would be estimated in the feasibility study. Robert Peterson: If we don’t know how much it costs, how do we know if we are asking for too much? My next question would be how much do CMAQ projects get funded for 9 9 Mike Stanley: The Transportation Planning branch manages CMAQ. There are issues now with 100 projects on line. They had intended to have another CMAQ call for this cycle. Nancy Baker: What do you mean by “call”? Mike Stanley: A call to submit applications. Nancy Baker: What about the list we gave you? Mike Stanley: I am not sure of their process. Robert Peterson: We haven’t submitted anything to CMAQ? Mike Stanley: It may have been submitted and not selected. Karen Lincoln: They haven’t had a call recently. We received a CMAQ grant approval with funding split between the MPO and RPO CMAQ funds to build a park and ride lot, 2 transit shelters, purchase 4 bicycle racks for buses and to provide operating assistance for three years to start a new transit route. It requires a 20% local match for the capital expenditures and a 50% local match for operating assistance. That was three years ago. Robert Peterson: In reality, our transportation is limited to STP. Mike Stanley: I am not sure. Federal funds come with a shelf life. Contract funds have to be used in a certain period of time. Robert Peterson: How much STP funds have been allocated for projects in Orange County? Mike Stanley: Weaver Diary is $17 million; South Columbia is $4.5 million and the upgrade of the computerized signal system in Chapel Hill, slated for April 2009. Nancy Baker: STP funds can only be used for a certain type of road? Mike Stanley: Thet could be used for a project like Estes (bicycle lanes). Robert Peterson: Or a small project. Mike Stanley: For safety improvements we could use the State Highway Fund money. Alice Gordon: What would you advise this group to do as far as prioritizing? 10 10 Mike Stanley: One thing in this TIP Cycle is the DA (demand attributable) funds that DCHC (the Durham-Chapel Hill-Carrboro Metropolitan Planning Organization) has. One option would be to work through the MPO and tap some of those monies. Karen Lincoln: The County, would be required to provide a match to use DA funds. We have to have a matching source of funds. It would be 80% STP-DA funds with a 20% local match. Jan Grossman: If we want to take a road that is being repaved by the State but we want to add a one-foot paved shoulder, where would that money come from? Mike Stanley: It depends on the magnitude and length of that project. Nancy Baker: Who comes up with the (funding) ideas? Mike Stanley: The regional office. Generally they look at matching sources of money. Nancy Baker: Like Safe Routes to School programs. Mike Stanley: That is a separate program. Nancy Baker: We may need to look at that. Karen Lincoln: For some bicycle projects that we have requested in the TIP, some OUTBoard members have noted that improvements to the road to enhance safety for bicyclists would be sufficient. How could you ask for TIP project money for types of improvements like wider paved shoulders or improving sight distance in blind curves using the spiral curve? Robert Peterson: Is there some way to sit down with someone and explain situations, i.e. making roads safer, etc? Mike Stanley: It depends on the source. If we have a project that is funded, it would be a matter of coordination. Robert Peterson: Is it possible on the larger projects also? Mike Stanley: Yes. Alice Gordon: What percentage of the 30% (of the federal transportation funds) STP Program, is the DA? Mike Stanley: DA funds are 20-25% of the STP budget. Alice Gordon: Who decides where to spend the STP money? 11 11 Mike Stanley: That is handled in our office. Mike Stanley: We basically take input from public meetings, etc. We make decisions internally for some programs like those funded with NHS money or the federal interstate maintenance money. The I-85 project and the interstate maintenance program are two examples. Jan Grossman: How was Millhouse Road funded? Mike Stanley: I am not sure but I am guessing that it was small construction money. Robert Peterson: We would like to thank Mike for coming. Nancy Baker: Can we have your contact information? Mike Stanley: Address: 1534 Mail Service Center, Raleigh, NC 27699. Phone (919) 733-2039. Email: mtstanley@dot.state.nc.us. Robert Peterson: I would like to skip over Agenda Item VI and move to VII. Do we have a motion to accept the Orange County Goals and Profile? Karen Lincoln: There is a comment regarding the County Profile Element, and that is to include the socioeconomic data for the DHCH 2035 Long Range Transportation Plan (LRTP). That is the demographic data that will be used in the Triangle Regional Model and regional transportation planning. The reason that data was not included originally was because the SE data had not been approved by the MPO but by the time the County Profile is approved, the Transportation Advisory Committee (TAC) will have approved the SE data for the LRTP. I spoke with Karen Markovics and she agreed we should use these numbers maybe in place of one of the projections they have in there now. Robert Peterson: We don’t need to take anything out because we don’t have much data to begin with. Karen Lincoln: This is the population data. We can just add it. We do have two Planning Board members that will be at the Public Hearing. Robert Peterson: Sam may be there. Alice Gordon: What are you trying to add? Karen Lincoln: When the DCHC TAC approves the SE data for the LRTP, to add that data as one of the population projections in the County Profile for our update of the comprehensive plan. 12 12 Robert Peterson: Due to the shortness of time, is there a way, since there is a County Commissioner here, to get that in there. Jan Grossman: The population data is generated from the developers. Karen Lincoln: The population data for the LRTP comes from the local jurisdictions. Jan Grossman: With the housing market going down, I think we are overestimating. Robert Peterson: This is a rough projection. Alice Gordon: It should come from the planning jurisdiction. There are always problems with these projections. Karen Lincoln: These are still in progress. MOTION made by Jan Grossman to appoint someone to present the comment to add the DCHC MPO data by a person unnamed. Seconded by Bryn Smith. VI. Orange County Comprehensive Plan Goals and County Profile VII. Policy for Potential BOCC Action Regarding Petitions for Addition Robert Peterson: We can make this really short because our action is to discuss this and appoint a subcommittee. I ask Randy if he would solicit a subcommittee. Do we have other volunteers? Randy Marshall, Jan Grossman and Sandra Quinn will be the subcommittee. At the next meeting, we will discuss Phase II. Karen Lincoln: I emailed the board the attachment at the back of the agenda packet. There is a workshop at the Chapel Hill public library on August 30 from 4:00-8:00 p.m. to allow citizens to discuss/ask questions regarding the Goals and Objectives for the DCHC 2035 LRTP. Jan Grossman: It comes down to money again. Karen Lincoln: Read an email from Sam Lasris regarding the Planning Board meeting in June at which the Planning Board approved a preliminary plan for development contingent on dedication of land for a public walking trail but did not recommend the street stubout that staff had recommended. The board needs to think about developing a comprehensive transportation plan. This ties in with the way the way subdivisions roads would be connected as well as recommendations for road improvements. Sandra Quinn: Something else we need to keep in mind is that there are quite a few developers coming in to Orange County. We have been looking at several subdivisions. When we have asked who is controlling the walking trails, it is the homeowners 13 13 association. People want the state to maintain the road but don’t want people to walk on them. Alice Gordon: How can you keep them off the trail? Robert Peterson: The big path in Raleigh was a huge deal. Now when you look at it, it is a feature. Jan Grossman: Does Orange County have any right to say that if someone is building a subdivision, they can’t build a state maintained road? Alice Gordon: We require them; we want them. Robert Peterson: And that is something for the meeting with Dave Stancil. Sandra Quinn: The reason is that the County has some reason for accepting the trails into the system. Karen Lincoln: We need a plan to make sure that public trails connect and go somewhere and can be obtained through the subdivision or easement agreement process. VIII. Road Improvement List IX. Future Agenda Items X. Adjournment MOTION made by Randy Marshall to adjourn and seconded by Jan Grossman. Tina L. Owen, Minutes Preparer