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HomeMy WebLinkAboutAgenda - 10-03-2017 - 6-e - Board of Commissioners - Discussion of 2018 Meeting Calendar 1 ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS ACTION AGENDA ITEM ABSTRACT Meeting Date: October 3, 2017 Action Agenda Item No. 6-e SUBJECT: Board of Commissioners - Discussion of 2018 Meeting Calendar DEPARTMENT: Board of Commissioners ATTACHMENT(S): INFORMATION CONTACT: Attachment 1-Excerpt from September 7, Donna Baker, 919-245-2130 2017 Draft Work Session Minutes Attachment 2-Discussion/Decision Items Attachment 3-Draft Baseline 2018 Calendar Attachment 4-Draft Proposed Changes for 2018 Calendar PURPOSE: To discuss and potentially approve the proposed meeting schedule for the Board of County Commissioners for calendar year 2018. BACKGROUND: In accordance with 143.318.12 of the North Carolina General Statutes, a schedule of regular meetings shall be filed with the Clerk to the Board of County Commissioners. The schedule must show the date, time and place of each meeting. The Board initially discussed the draft 2018 meeting calendar at its September 7, 2017 Work Session, and this item is a follow up to that discussion. • Attachment 1-Draft Minutes from September 7, 2017 BOCC Work Session • Attachment 2-Discussion/Decision Items for Draft 2018 Calendar • Attachment 3-DRAFT Calendar 2018 - Baseline ➢ Four (4) Quarterly Public Hearings (QPH) removed ➢ Staff Evaluations scheduled before Budget work sessions: ■ Manager - May 24th starting at 5:30pm (with dinner) ■ Clerk/Attorney - June 7th starting at 5:30pm (with dinner) • Attachment 4 - DRAFT Calendar 2018 with draft changes: ➢ Four (4) Quarterly Public Hearings (QPH) removed ➢ Staff Evaluations before Budget work sessions as noted above ➢ Town Meetings/Regular Work Sessions - same day (Total of 5 **"half' Regular work sessions including the "half" Regular work session following the Fire Department meeting) ➢ All six (6) of the stand-alone Regular work sessions are removed ➢ Fire Department meeting kept as a stand-alone meeting with a "half" Regular work session to follow ➢ Legislative Breakfast - kept as a stand-alone meeting All meetings will begin at 7:00 p.m. unless otherwise noted. **Note: The use of the word "half" above is not intended to reference the amount of time for the Regular work session, but rather that the Regular work session would be the second half of the two meetings planned for the same respective night. 2 FINANCIAL IMPACT: There is not financial impact associated with discussion and potential approval of the draft 2018 BOCC meeting calendar. SOCIAL JUSTICE IMPACT: There are no Orange County Social Justice Goals applicable to this item. RECOMMENDATION(S): The Manager recommends that the Board discuss and provide direction to staff on the schedule of meetings for the year 2018, and potentially approve the 2018 meeting calendar. 3 Excerpt from the DRAFT BOCC MINUTES- September 7, 2017 Attachment 1 1. Board of Commissioners DRAFT Meeting Calendar for 2018 1. For the Board to consider and discuss a petition request by Commissioner Jacobs from the May 2, 2017 BOCC meeting about previous dinner meetings with Health, Social Services and other advisory boards that are no longer scheduled on the BOCC meeting calendar. Staff recollections on this issue were that these were removed during discussion in Chair/Vice Chair agenda reviews (about meeting calendar) because of: • Lack of agenda items from Advisory Boards/Departments • Insufficient agenda packets (sometimes only an agenda sheet) • Low attendance from BOCC members at some meetings or late arrivals • Reduction of BOCC meetings • Advisory board meetings could always be added to the meeting calendar on an "as needed" basis 2. For the Board to consider and discuss a petition by Chair Dorosin from the May 2, 2017 BOCC meeting that staff and the Board begin thinking about the Board's annual meeting calendar and potential opportunities to reduce the number of meetings. Attachment 4- Email from Chair Dorosin (8/10/17) Chair Dorosin said he would like to review the BOCC meeting calendar, noting there are over 50 meetings a year. The Clerk said the BOCC has nine public meetings between now and June 20th, and two closed sessions. Chair Dorosin encouraged the Board to be conscientious of the time it takes to hold a meeting, including the amount of prep work. After discussion/discussion by the Board, and any proposed changes made, this item will be on the consent agenda at an October/November BOCC meeting for approval. In an effort to have a thorough discussion about the number of meetings we have, the following ideas are offered for your consideration: 0 Move the 4 quarterly public hearings from separate meetings into regular meetings each quarter. According to John R., this is a perfectly legitimate alternative and can be done without any changes to the UDO. (If we wanted to go further and change the UDO however, we would have even more flexibility and planning items requiring a public hearing could be considered at a public hearing during any of the 20 or so regular board meetings annually. o Reduction: 4 meetings O Move the joint town meetings (Hillsborough/Mebane/Chapel Hill/Carrboro) to the first portion of a BoCC work session. Following the joint meeting portion, our colleagues could leave, with the rest of the work session dedicated to BoCC issues. We may also want to discuss whether we still need to have all of these joint sessions. o Reduction: 4 meetings 1 4 Excerpt from the DRAFT BOCC MINUTES- September 7, 2017 Attachment 1 0 Move the 2 meetings for personnel evaluations (clerk/attorney, manager) to closed sessions at the end of regular meetings. We did this with the manager's evaluation this year and I think it worked fine. o Reduction: 2 meetings 0 Move the legislative breakfast to a regular meeting or work session. It might be ideal to do this at the regular meeting where we discuss/vote on our legislative goals and agenda. o Reduction: 1 meeting Of course, if we determine during the course of the year that we need to add a meeting back, we always have the option to do so. END OF EMAIL-Discussion begins Chair Dorosin said there are two versions of the proposed 2018 Board of County Commissioners (BOCC) meeting calendar at the Commissioners' places. He said the Board has been discussing the option of reducing the number of meetings. He said the BOCC currently meets 48 times per year. He said the number would reduce by 25%, if all proposed changes are accepted, to 37 meetings. He said the meetings that are prosed for removal include: quarterly public hearings (QPH); Fire Department meetings; Legislative Delegation Breakfast meeting; meetings with Towns, Schools, etc. Commissioner Price asked if these meetings would be made up in any way, or rolled into other meetings. Chair Dorosin reviewed the changes he suggested in his email from May 2nd. He said a meeting can always be added to a calendar, if needed. Commissioner Burroughs asked if the Board can be more disciplined, and keep conversation at the policy level, as opposed to micro managing. Commissioner Burroughs said she asked Steve Brantley, Economic Development Director, if he could identify the percentage of the community that is self-employed, and he told her 7%. She said more than half of the Commission is self-employed. She said the more meetings that occur; the more difficult it is to have a broad range of people on the Board. She said if the number of meetings is not going to be reduced, then the pay must be increased in order to attract a more diverse pool of Commissioners. Commissioner Price said the Legislative Breakfast is still on both proposed calendars as a separate meeting in March. She asked if this would be put with another meeting. Chair Dorosin said it is the pleasure of the Board, and his only consideration is that it would not be a separate meeting. Commissioner Price said she agreed about the QPH and meeting with the Towns, but she is hesitant to do staff evaluations after meetings as that seems unfair to staff. She said some meetings run very long. Chair Dorosin said the goal would be have evaluations after very short meetings. He agreed with Commissioner Burroughs that there would need to be a level of discipline. Commissioner Jacobs said he is receptive to change, but he does not think a more public Legislative Breakfast will be productive. Commissioner Jacobs said the Board is not taking advantage of meetings that start at dinnertime, and he does not want to give up time in work sessions to meetings with other boards. He said work sessions are the most flexible space, and allow for in depth conversation. 2 5 Excerpt from the DRAFT BOCC MINUTES- September 7, 2017 Attachment 1 He said if meetings are going to be combined into work sessions, then the work sessions should begin earlier. Commissioner Jacobs said the Board has a policy of automatic adjournment at 10:30 p.m., which has been ignored for years; and if one Commissioner declines to extend a meeting, it is supposed to end. He said the addition of a QPH to a regular meeting runs the risk of a very long meeting. He said he wants to be sensitive to staff being able to leave. Commissioner Jacobs said he would prefer to stick with a 10:30 p.m. end time at meetings. Commissioner Rich said moving QPH to regular meetings could work, but agrees that the agenda review would have to attempt to schedule items with timeliness in mind whenever possible. She said the meetings with the Towns could be attached to a work session, and begin a bit earlier. Commissioner Rich suggested moving personnel closed sessions prior to a meeting instead of at the end of a meeting, and that it could be a dinner meeting. She said staff deserves the Board to be fresh and engaged. She said she is unsure about the Legislative Breakfast, and agrees that the conversation may not be as full if it occurs during a BOCC meeting. She understands that the Board setting goals prior to the Legislative Breakfast seems a bit backwards. Commissioner McKee said the QPH slows down the whole process for those submitting paperwork, and he agrees with moving QPH items into regular meetings, as evenly spaced as possible. Commissioner McKee said the Board needs to set legislative goals, and encourage the legislature to support them when possible. He said he does not want to eliminate the Legislative Breakfast, and does not want to combine it into another meeting either. Commissioner McKee said he was not satisfied with having the Manager's evaluation at the end of a meeting, such as occurred on June 20th. He said he was tired and unfocused. He said he is amenable to conducting evaluations at the beginning of a meeting. Commissioner McKee referred to the Fire Department meetings, and said these meetings keep communication open with the Fire Departments, and maintains good relations. He said the removal of these meetings would be insulting to the Fire Departments. He said to keep these meetings attached to a work session. Commissioner McKee said he is unsure he can be any more disciplined, as he feels he must always speak his mind. He said the Board needs to focus on policy and not micromanagement, but if he sees an item of concern, he will speak up. He said he would like to reduce the overall number of meetings, but thinks the Board must be very careful not to cut into the quality of the product. John Roberts said the QPH can be designated into a regular meeting on a quarterly basis, and the Planning Department would need to know ahead of time. He said a problem may arise when there are a large number of items, such as this November, and the meeting will run very long. John Roberts said he looked at the Unified Development Ordinance (UDO), and the Board can amend the text to delete the word "quarterly", and have public hearings held at any regular Board meeting. He said this would allow items to be spread out over several regular meetings. He said this change could be made this year. Commissioner Marcoplos said this is a great suggestion for the QPH. He said he would support staff evaluations being at the beginning of a meeting, and he would like to keep the Legislative Breakfast meeting on the meeting calendar. He said he hates to put a cap on the one interaction a year that the BOCC has with the Towns. Commissioner Marcoplos said he would like work sessions to be stand alone meetings. He said discipline sounds like a code word, and he wonders who would meter out the discipline. He thinks self-discipline is a good idea. 3 6 Excerpt from the DRAFT BOCC MINUTES- September 7, 2017 Attachment 1 Commissioner Jacobs said he has served on this board for many years, and has never heard complaint that the BOCC micromanages. He said he does not want to be hurried through meetings. Commissioner Jacobs suggested moving the Manager's annual review ahead of the Clerk and Attorney, in order to get any input from the Manager. Commissioner Jacobs said he hopes that the Planning Board will be clearly informed about what the BOCC is considering, and if there were public hearing items at a regular meeting. Commissioner Jacobs said he had mixed feelings on the Town meetings because elected officials need to maintain relationships. Commissioner Jacobs said he regretted that the Town of Mebane was allowed to cancel the September 14th meeting. He said Steve Brantley told him that Mebane is shifting all its residential development to Orange County and all its commercial development to Alamance County. He said he does not like this, and he wants to be able to tell the Town as much. Commissioner Price said the more development there is, the more the Board needs to meet with the Towns. She also agreed with Commissioner McKee about the Fire Departments. Commissioner Price said the comment about meeting with the legislative delegation without cameras present seems irrelevant, as the breakfast is an open meeting, and the public is welcome to attend. Commissioner Marcoplos said the fewer meetings that occur, the greater the chance for longer meetings. Commissioner McKee said the entire Board knew the expectations when running for public office, and should acknowledge that responsibility. He said the Board all spent a lot of time begging for votes, and it is not acceptable to complain about spending time now. He said he appreciates Chair Dorosin's intent, but sometimes the meetings just have to be frequent and long. Chair Dorosin said there seems to be consensus on amending the UDO to include QPHs into regular meetings. He directed staff to make these changes and return to the Board. Chair Dorosin said the decision about the Legislative Breakfast is still open. He said it would allow for greater transparency to have this meeting at a time when more of the public can attend. He said he would be happy to seek input from the legislators. Chair Dorosin said the idea of automatic adjournment sounds appealing, but sometimes extending the meeting in order to complete an item is appropriate. He said he does not think the Board needs to meet 49 times to efficiently run the County, and more items can be moved to the consent agenda. Chair Dorosin agreed with having staff evaluations before a work session or meeting. Chair Dorosin said the best element of the meetings with the Towns is the back and forth dialogue, not just getting a report or update. He said he would like to facilitate such dialogue. Chair Dorosin said if the Board feels he is rushing at meetings, to please let him know. Chair Dorosin said meetings are a tremendous strain on staff, and he agreed with the suggestion of moving the Manager's evaluation prior to the Clerk and Attorney's evaluations. Commissioner Jacobs said in reference to the Consent Agenda, the public does not always know what is going on with items that are placed on that agenda. He said this is an invisible part of government, and that needs to be fixed, despite the fact that most items on the consent agenda are very routine things. Commissioner Jacobs said if the BOCC does not plan to follow the 10:30 p.m. rule of stopping a meeting at that time to ask the full Board if they want to continue or adjourn the meeting, then this rule should be removed from the rules of procedure. Commissioner Jacobs said he would like time to think about all of the comments made tonight, before making any decisions. 4 7 Excerpt from the DRAFT BOCC MINUTES- September 7, 2017 Attachment 1 Commissioner Marcoplos said he supports keeping meetings with the Towns and work sessions as separate meetings in order to have the highest quality meetings. Commissioner McKee referred to the meeting with Towns, and said he gets more information from watching the body language of all attendees. Chair Dorosin said there should be more agenda details when meeting with the Towns. Chair Dorosin said to move forward with removing the four QPH meetings from the draft 2018 calendar; he will follow up with the legislators regarding the breakfast; and the Board can think some more about the "proposed" changes. Commissioner Rich said there are seven items on the November QPH, and the flood insurance item needs to be moved into a regular meeting, as it must be voted on prior to November 20th. She asked if there is any procedure that needs to be followed to move this into the November 14th meeting. John Roberts said this item needs to be at a QPH because of the language of the UDO. He said the QPH could be moved up a week to November 13th, or move the QPH to the 14th; open the public hearing; handle that issue only; and continue the rest of the public hearing until November 20th John Roberts said at least one member of the Planning staff preferred handling everything on November 13th, but the other option is available. He said the Planning Department does need to know the Board's pleasure so that appropriate notice can be given. Commissioner Price said Hurricane Irma may be in the area as early as Monday, September 11th, and asked if it is wise to have a meeting on that Monday. Chair Dorosin said that decision can be made closer to the time. 5 8 Attachment 2 Please see the two attached draft calendars. The first calendar (Baseline) - Attachment 3 is a starting point, similar to 2017 (with the following changes that seemed to be the consensus of Board from previous calendar discussions). 1 . Four (4) Quarterly Public Hearings removed 2. The Manager, Attorney and Clerk evaluations have been scheduled prior to Budget work sessions. The two evaluation meetings will start at 5:30 p.m. (Manager on Thursday, May 24 and both the Clerk and Attorney on Thursday, June 7) (Note: Back to back meetings are considered separate meetings, each with its own agenda, for the recommended calendars.) (Note: The Joint Meeting with the City of Mebane starts at 7:00 p.m. instead of 6:00 p.m. to line up the joint meetings with the other towns.) The second calendar (Suggested Changes) - Attachment 4 details additional calendar changes as suggested by some Board members. It includes scheduling four "half" Regular work sessions after the Joint town meetings. It also includes a "half" Regular work session after the Fire Department meeting. All six (6) Regular work sessions as depicted on Attachment 3 have been removed. This results in five "half" Regular work sessions (non-Budget work sessions) during the year that will occur on the same night with another meeting. The "half" Regular work sessions would be in February, March, September and two in October. Decision Items: 1 . Does the Board agree with the baseline or first calendar (Attachment 3) as a starting point for the discussion? 2. Should town meetings and **"half" Regular work sessions be held on the same evening? a. If yes, should the meetings that night start at 5:30 p.m. or b. Start at 7:00 p.m.? 3. In conjunction with the proposed "half" Regular work sessions, all of the stand- alone Regular work sessions on February 16, March 27, April 26, May 3 September 6 and November 8 are proposed for deletion as depicted on Attachment 4. Does this work? 9 Attachment 2 4. The second calendar (Attachment 4) includes a separate "half" Regular work session after the Fire Department's meeting. An option would be to have the fire departments present as an agenda item at a regular meeting and eliminate the separate meeting. What is the Board's interest in this? (Please note that eliminating the separate Fire Department meeting would presumably also eliminate the "half" Regular work session after it. This would result in a total of four (4) "half" Regular work sessions for the year. 5. Should the legislative breakfast be deleted from the calendar as a stand-alone morning meeting? (This meeting has been proposed as an agenda item at a regular meeting.) **Note: The use of the word "half" above is not intended to reference the amount of time for the Regular work session, but rather that the Regular work session would be the second half of the two meetings planned for the same respective night. Revised 9/25/2017 BOCC 2018 Meeting Calendar DRAFT Baseline Attachment 3 January February March S M T W T F S S M T W T F S ©©0©00© 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 ------- 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 4 5 W6 7 8 9 10 4© 6 Ma W8 9 10 14 16 17 18 19 20 11 12® 14 16 17 =®® 14® 16.11 21 22 W23 24 25 26 27 18 19 S20 21 23 24 18 19 S20 ®S22 ® 24 28 29 30 31 25 26 27 28 ® 28 29 ME ======= 31-2 Managers Winter Conference 3-7 NACo Legislative Conf.Wash.D.C. 26th 9:00 am-4:00 pm Retrt @ TBD 22nd 7:00 pm Town of Hillsboroug• 26th 8:30 am Legislative Breakfast©SW 27th 7:00 pm Work Session April May June S M T W I F S ©©EM©EM Q© S M TIM S 1 2 W3 4 5 6 7 --W1 © 4© 1 2 8 9 S10 11 12 13 14 6-EIct8 9 W10 -- 3 4 W5 6 S7 8 9 15 16 S17 18 19 20 21 - 14 S15 1613101 18 19 10 11® 13 14 15 16 22 23 S24 25 27 28 20®®®W24 - 26 17 18 S19 20 21 22 23 29 30 - 29 30®-- 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 ======= 10th 7:00 pm Budget Work Session-CIP 10th 7:00 pm Budget Public Hearing 7th 5:30 pm Staff Eval/Bdgt Wk Sess 24th 7:00 pm Schools 17th 7:00 pm Budget Public Hearing 12th 7:00 pm Budget Work Session 26th 7:00 Work Sessi 24th 5:30 pm Mgr.Eval/Bdgt Wk Sess 31st 7:00 pm Budget Work Session 21st-23rd Manager's Summer Seminar July August September S M T W T F S S M T I N T F S ©©0©00© 1 2 3 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 ======MI 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 © W4 © — 8 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 9 10 ME=W13 14- 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16-S18 19 20-- 29 30 31 26 27 28 29 30 31 - 24- 26® 28 29 30----_- 13- 16 NACo Conf-Nashville,TN 23- 25 NCACC Conf.Catawba Co. 1 13th 7:00 pm City of Mebane 27th 7:00 pm Schools October November December S M T W T F S ©©Q©Q Q© ©©Q©QQ© 1 3 W4 5 6 --_-W1 ©© ------- 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 4©EIct6 - 9 10 ©W3 4© 6 W 8 14 15 17 18 19 20 En®S13 14 W15 16- 9 10 S11 -- 14- 21 22 23 24 S25 26 27 18 19 20- 24 16- 18 19 20-- 28 29 30 31 - 26- 28 29 30- ® ® 28 29 ------- 30------ 4th 7:00 pm Fire Depts 25th 7:00 pm Town of Carrboro 15th 7:00 pm AOG Days Mtg Jan 2 2 Regular BOCC Meetings 19 Feb 4 4 Work Sessions Mar 5 5 Dinner Meetings 0 Apr 5 5 May 7 8 Budget Public Hearings 2 Jun 4 5 Jul 0 0 MI Aug 0 0 School Boards 2 Sep 5 5 Closed Sessions 2 Oct 4 5 Towns 4 42 Meeting days Nov 4 4 Legislative Breakfast 3 Two meetings same day Dec 2 2 Retreat 1 45 Total Meetings Tot 42 45 Fire Departments Work Session 1 Total Meetings 45 Revised 9/25/2017-3:15 PM Revised 9/25/2017 BOCC 2018 Meeting Calendar DRAFT Suggested Changes Attachment 4 January February March S M T W T F S S M T W T F S S M T W T F S 2 3 4 5 6 1 2 3 1 2 3 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 4 5 W6 7 8 9 10 4 5 6 7 W8 9 10 14 16 17 18 19 20 11 12- 14 15 16 17 11 12 13 14- 16 17 21 22 W23 24 25 26 27 18 19 S20 21® 23 24 18 19 S20 21 S22 23 24 28 29 30 31 25 26 27 28 25 27 28 29 31 31-2 Managers Winter Conference 3-7 NACo Legislative Conf.Wash.D.C. 26th 9:00 am-4:00 pm Retrt @ TBD 22nd 7:00 pm Town of Chapel • - 22nd 7:00 pm Town of Hillsborough/WS ive Breakfast @ SW April May June S M T W T F S S M T W T F S S M T W T F S 1 2 W3 4 5 6 7 W1 2 3 4 5 1 2 8 9 S10 11 12 13 14 6 7 Elct8 9 W10 11 12 3 4 W5 6 S7 8 9 15 16 S17 18 19 20 21 13 14 S15 16 S17 18 19 10 11® 13 14 15 16 22 23 S24 25 26 27 28 20 21 22 23 W24 25 26 17 18 S19 20 21 22 23 29 30 27 29 30 S31 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 10th 7:00 pm Budget Work Session-CIP 10th 7:00 pm Budget Public Hearing 7th 5:30 pm Staff Eval/Bdgt Wk Sess 24th 7:00 pm Schools 17th 7:00 pm Budget Public Hearing 12th 7:00 pm Budget Work Session 24th 5:30 pm Mgr.Eval/Bdgt Wk Sess 31st 7:00 pm Budget Work Session 21st-23rd Manager's Summer Seminar July August September S M T W T F S S M T W T F S S M T W T F S 1 2 3 5 6 7 1 2 3 4 1 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 2 W4 5 6 7 8 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 9 10 11 12® 14 15 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 16 17111 19 20 21 22 29 30 31 26 27 28 29 30 31 23 24 25 26 W27 28 29 30 13- 16 NACo Conf-Nashville,TN 23- 25 NCACC Conf.Catawba Co. 13th 7:00 pm City of Mebane/WS 27th 7:00 pm Schools October November December ©©0©00© S M T W T F S ©©0pppp --W2 —■ 4 — 6 W1 2 3 =======1 Ma 8 9 10 ®® 4 5 Elct6 7 8 9 10 ©W3 4© 6 8 14®S16 - 18 19 20 11 12® 14 W15 16 17 9 10 S11 -- 14- --- 24 S25 26® 18 19 20 21 24 16- 18 19 20-® 28 29 30®--- 25 26 27 28 29 30 - ® 28 29 ------- 30------ 4th 7:00 pm Fire Depts 25th 7:00 pm Town of Carrboro/WS 15th 7:00 pm AOG Days Mtg Jan 2 2 Regular BOCC Meetings 19 Feb 3 4 Work Sessions Mar 4 5 Dinner Meetings 0 Apr 4 4 May 6 7 Budget Public Hearings 2 Jun 4 5 Jul 0 0 MI Aug 0 0 School Boards 2 Sep 4 5 Closed Sessions 2 Oct 4 6 Towns 4 36 Meeting days Nov 3 3 Legislative Breakfast 7 Two meetings same day Dec 2 2 Retreat 1 43 Total Meetings Tot 36 43 Fire Departments Work Session 1 Total Meetings 43 Revised 9/25/2017-3:17 PM