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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 11-12-2013 APPROVED 3/6/2014 MINUTES BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS BUDGET WORK SESSION November 12, 2013 7:00 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a Work Session on Tuesday, November 12, 2013 at 7:00 p.m. at the Link Government Services Center in Hillsborough, N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Jacobs and Commissioners Mark Dorosin, Alice M. Gordon, Earl McKee, Bernadette Pelissier, Renee Price and Penny Rich COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: Interim County Manager Michael Talbert, Assistant County Managers Cheryl Young and Clarence Grier and Clerk to the Board Donna Baker (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below) 1. Cedar Grove Community Center Schematic Design Presentation Jeff Thompson introduced this item and noted that Chair Jacobs and Commissioner Price have worked alongside staff and the resident advisory workgroup. He thanked all of the team members who have participated in the process. Sue Florence spoke on behalf of the working group. She asked all residents to stand so they could be recognized for their work on this group. She thanked the Board for the professional knowledge and skill that was provided by staff and consultants throughout this project. Chair Jacobs said the Board appreciated all of the work that the residents and staff accomplished. John Thomas, with MBAJ Architecture, praised the advisory group for their efforts on this challenging task. He reviewed the following PowerPoint slides: Methodology Informal Resident Advisory Work Group - 7 Meetings over 3 Months • Perceptions and Dreams • Programming • Concept Development - 8 Concepts Explored Existing Conditions Survey - Through inventory of existing conditions - Code compliance review Existing Conditions (Aria) Photograph) Existing Conditions (Park Master Plan Map) Existing Conditions (blueprint) Existing Conditions (blueprint) Challenges • Septic Capacity — 1,400 gals/day • Limited Occupancy • No Commercial Kitchen Lot Coverage — 12% Impervious Surface Memorializing Community Significance • Historic Aesthetic Proposed Solutions-schematic designs for next 8 slides Occupancy • Septic Capacity — 1,400 gals/day • Full Day Use (8 hours) — 140 persons • Half Day Use (4 hours) — 220 persons Proposed Solution Preliminary Cost Estimate General Conditions $172,712 Selective Abatement & Deconstruction $294,881 Building Renovation $1,029,247 Site Work $253,255 Construction Subtotal $1,577,383 Contingency 8% $105,930 Professional Fees $173,500 Cultural & Archeology Study $5,000 Construction Testing & Inspections $15,774 Permits & Fees $2,000 Audio Visual Equipment $20,000 Signage $3,500 FF&E $94,643 Project Total $1,997,730 Mothballing of Classroom Wings (photo) Mothballing • Objective — Preservation of Existing Space • Minimum Scope — Window Replacement — Roof Replacement — HVAC — Fire Alarm — Smoke Detection Mothballing • Cost — Additional Cost: $358,700 • Mothball Cost: $579,900 • Mothball Design Fees:$28,800 • Less Deconstruction Budget: ($250,000) • Benefits — Preserves 21,000 s.f. for future use — Replacement Cost: $3-4 Million — 1,100 s.f. Classroom available as Multi-Media Room in Project — Preserves Historic Appearance John Thomas said the charge was the development of the center section of the existing building, which represents between 11,000 and 13,000 square feet. He said the simultaneous charge was to look at the effect of mothballing the areas noted in gray on the maps, in case of a need for future development. He said the proposal is to keep or mothball all wings of the facility, and convert the gravel lot to a paved lot, which will not change the impervious surface. He walked through the proposed site plan blueprint. He said the memorial site out front would put back the old flagpole along with information about the old school. John Thomas reviewed the floor plan and said the goal is to create a lobby out of the current outdoor walkway, and develop the cafeteria into three main spaces — a small group room, a large group space, and a recreation room. He said the kitchen would be divided into a church style kitchen with storage and two restrooms - one available to the kitchen and one to the exterior ball fields. He said the gym will be converted into a multipurpose room with some recreational capabilities. He said the old stage will be closed off with folding walls to allow for use as an exercise space. Commissioner McKee arrived at 7:18 pm. John Thomas said there will also be one additional room that was not in the original charge. He said this room will be developed into a multi-media room appropriate for computer use, tutoring, or classroom space. He said the proposal also includes a facility manager's office, as well as an open front entrance for an internet cafe. John Thomas said the overall look of the building will be maintained. He said the brick will be cleaned up, and new windows will be installed throughout the building. He reviewed black and white sketches of each room described above. He said the small group room, large group room and the recreation room can all be opened up into one large meeting space. He said the idea of the recreation room is to have a permanent pool and ping pong area for youth and/or seniors in the area. John Thomas reviewed the occupancy and use limitations for large groups. He said the building would be fine for the intended day to day uses. He said the objective of mothballing the other wings of the building is to preserve the 21,000 square feet of additional space for possible future use. He reviewed the minimum scope measures, as listed on the slide, to preserve the space. Commissioner Gordon asked how many people can be accommodated in the space if it is fully occupied. John Thomas said if the large middle room were filled, standing room only, according to code, it could fit 290 people. He said the recreational activity use number is more like 15 or 20 people. Commissioner Gordon asked what happens when someone wants to reserve the space. She asked if this means this reservation cannot exceed 290. John Thomas said that is correct. He said this is a limit that is put on as a result of the septic condition. Commissioner Gordon asked about the square footage of the project. John Thomas said the renovation is a little over 13,000 square feet, including the extra room, which is 1,100 square feet, plus the bathrooms. Commissioner Gordon asked for the total breakdown, including the bathrooms. John Thomas said it would be a little over 2,500 square feet. Commissioner Gordon clarified that bathrooms had to be done. John Thomas said if the wings came down at the natural break point, it would require the construction of new bathrooms. Commissioner Gordon asked if this is included in the estimate. John Thomas said this was not included, as the recommendation was to mothball the wings. However, he is confident that it could be done within the budget of$2 million. He said the other option is to take down the wing down at a different junction. Commissioner Dorosin asked about the sewer capacity. He questioned whether there is any possible solution to the issue. Jeff Thompson said in the mid 2000's the County acquired property across the street for the purpose of creating additional leach field area to increase the septic capacity. He said the estimated cost of this endeavor was about $800,000 to $1 million. He said there are new technologies coming out, but these are not yet vetted by environmental health. Commissioner Dorosin said he understands there is a goal to keep the aesthetics, but he wondered if solar panels or green roofs have been discussed, considering the large flat roof surface. John Thomas said green roofs are not a possibility due to the weight being incompatible with the current roof loading standard, but solar panels are a possibility. Jeff Thompson said the photo voltaic solar does not have a good enough cost payback benefit. He said these paybacks are still decades out. Chair Jacobs said the Board had this same conversation 10 years ago regarding solar, and the same objection was raised. Commissioner Rich asked if there has been discussion about what the wings would be used for in the future. Jeff Thompson said there has been nothing discussed in the short term for these wings, but there has been discussion of a possible future co-location of Emergency Services facilities. Commissioner Rich said her concern is that the septic issue limits any future use. Jeff Thompson said the current estimate is to save the space for possible use, without spending operating funds. He said if there is a point where there is a use for the space then there would be a significant cost required to upgrade the septic, but there would be not be a big cost in the building itself if it is maintained. Michael Talbert noted that there are 21,000 square feet of space to be mothballed. He asked how much it would cost in today's dollars to renovate the space and bring it back. Jeff Thompson said this would cost $75 to $100 per square foot. Michael Talbert said this would require some work now to mothball, but the cost five years from now to renovate at the current rate would be an additional $2 million, plus sewer, which would push it up to the $3 million range. Commissioner Pelissier said there was some discussion about having a park and ride lot across the street. She asked if there had been any discussion about having it on the same side of the street if the wings were not mothballed. She said people wanting to use the facilities would have to cross a busy street to get to the park and ride lot. Jeff Thompson said the board has had some conversation about this site being an endpoint for a circulator route into Hillsborough. He said there have been no specifics yet about how this would work. Commissioner Pelissier asked if there was any discussion of doing geo-thermal for this site. Jeff Thompson said there is interest in doing geo-thermal; however the only site for doing this is under the current septic field. Commissioner McKee said he would like the title of this facility to be the Northern Human Services Center, because he would like to see services moved back up into that community. He questioned whether it is more important to mothball space or to provide services to the community. He noted that the library was taken out of this community, and he feels it is critical to provide services, because this is an underserved area of the County. He said this is not just a $300,000 mothball project, as it would still cost $2-3 million to renovate in the future. He said this could provide a lot of services in the community that would go with the current schematic. Commissioner Price noted that the multi-media area is a library. Commissioner McKee said he is referencing the space below the bathrooms that could be used for additional space. Jeff Thompson said the use of this room for programs was not discussed. He acknowledged that the community center cost for programming would have to be addressed in future discussions. Chair Jacobs asked if there will there be a fire alarm in the wings. John Thomas said this was not discussed, but it could be provided, along with sensors on the doors. Chair Jacobs said if the space is climate controlled and has some security, a conversation could be had in the future about the potential use for storage. He said this would be a good investment, as it would free up space in other County buildings. He said this would make him more comfortable with this schematic design. Jeff Thompson said an intruder alarm is standard. Chair Jacobs said he feels that an internet cafe and a multi-purpose room seem redundant in some ways. He said a multi-media room will have internet, and if there is an interactive video screen in the cafe, it will probably have limited use. John Thomas said the interactive display wall was not meant to function the same as a laptop. He said this was to be more of a memorial to the history of the facility and the community. He said the internet cafe was intended to be like a Starbucks. He said it was intended to be more social, and the multi-media space would be more use based. He said these uses would be things like distance learning, tutoring, and special classes. He said this would be more of a dedicated use space. Chair Jacobs questioned whether a Zumba class could be held on stage without the noise bleeding into the internet cafe. John Thomas said the acoustics in this space have not been examined yet, but this can be mitigated later. He said the internet cafe is intended to be a lively and social space, not a quiet space. Chair Jacobs said the conference room may not be that quiet either. John Thomas said he is confident the good acoustic privacy could be achieved in that space. Chair Jacobs asked if the south facing wall in the kitchen is movable. John Thomas said no. Chair Jacobs asked if the other three sections could be one large section if the walls were moved. John Thomas said yes. He said the intent was to have a catering kitchen, according to health standards. Commissioner Price said the multi-media space should be a quiet space, like a library, for kids to do homework. Chair Jacobs asked if the county librarians had looked at this multi-media design. Jeff Thompson said yes. He said this facility would be on wireless access and there would be capability to stream content and link back to the main branch. Chair Jacobs noted that this is similar to the Cybrary. Commissioner Dorosin confirmed that property is owned across the street. He said if the wings were ever to be used, there would have to be an investment in accessing this, or in bringing water and sewer to this additional property. He questioned whether the septic capacity would be increased if one wing were taken down. Jeff Thompson said there would still be some critical watershed issues to address and there would not be a like for like return. Chair Jacobs said it would be beneficial to know the capacity of the septic field across the street, for a longer term view. Commissioner Dorosin suggested that there be a plan for this other septic site, possibly in the CIP. He suggested that the cost to bring septic to this parcel should be added in to the mix. He likes the idea of keeping the wings, with the idea of expanding services, but it is critical to keep the septic issue on the forefront. Commissioner Price asked about the issue with the parcel across the street. She had heard that the cost was high for the septic system because it was experimental. Jeff Thompson said the "living machine" was the technology that had been discussed, and this was very cutting edge. He said there were more services on site when this was discussed, but services were on the decline. He said a decision was made to purchase the land but not do the septic. Commissioner Price asked what the major cost to bring septic would be. Jeff Thompson said it would be the process of getting under the road and meeting regulatory requirements for the use of 21,000 feet. Chair Jacobs said it was not a productive conversation back then because it was uncertain whether the living machine would work or would be allowed Commissioner Rich said she hopes the septic options will be investigated, but her concern is that $359,000 will be spent to mothball the wings. She asked if this will be a onetime cost, and she questioned the amount for yearly upkeep on the wings. Jeff Thompson said this cost would serve to secure the wings and keep them minimally intact. He said when the facility was fully empty the operating cost was around $100,000 per year, so there will be some cost. He said there would be some additional cost to accommodate storage. John Thomas said some adjustments would need to be made to the fire alarm systems if this is used as storage space. Commissioner Rich said her concern is that these wings will be mothballed and then forgotten about while annual costs are paid on them. She is uncomfortable with the uncertainty of the use and she would like to come up with a solution for the wings. Commissioner Pelissier said the driving factor is not the septic, but it is the question of why this should be mothballed. She said the square footage of this site is more than the Southern Human Services Center, and she questioned why this would be needed in a rural area. She said this wing is not ideal for emergency services, and it would not be used for a park and ride. She likes the plan, but she is not keen on the mothballing part. Commissioner McKee said he would like to see this site developed and not continually pushed back on the CIP. He said there is a dual service model already in Orange County. He would like to see some of these services provided in this rural area of the County, and he would like to shift the funding to use for this. Commissioner Gordon agreed with Commissioner Pelissier about the uncertainty of what all this space would be used for. She said the layout is already beyond the septic capacity, and she does not feel it is a cost effective use to mothball these wings. She said the ideas about repurposing the main space are good, but she would have to think a long time before she would agree to mothball the other wings. Ms. Sue Florence spoke and said the perception in the northern end of the County is that the services were removed from this site. She said many residents were hoping for services here, especially Emergency Services. She noted that phase three of the park is the largest part of the park, and it would need more septic space. She said there needs to be a decision about this septic issue, and if septic cannot be expanded, then the third phase of the park would also have to be abandoned. Chair Jacobs said the Board wants to do more investigation on how to use the parcel across the street; what the options are for septic; and how big the park and ride lot would be. He said the Board is generally supportive of the design, but there are questions about the possible use of the internal space and the provision of services. He said the advisory board did a good job of staying within budget, with the exception of the open room, septic and across the street. He said the most disagreement is with the mothballing option. He said if staff thinks the mothball area could be used for storage, then the cost effectiveness is good. He suggested that this option be considered. Commissioner Price clarified that the mothball idea was not to have it sit there for 15 years. She said the concern was to preserve the integrity and history of the building, and there was also a hope that services would be brought back to the building. She said the preservation of these rooms was intended to prevent having to rebuild the space to provide services. Chair Jacobs said the flipside was that the Board of County Commissioners established a budget, and the mothball takes this into another area of expenditure. He said the Board needs more facts about the issues above, and this should be included as part of the CIP discussion. Commissioner Price asked how much was put into the preservation of the Whitted Building. Chair Jacobs said this amount was $1.7 million. Commissioner Price noted that this building sat for a period of time. Chair Jacobs said this will be scheduled for discussion at a regular meeting in future. 2. Lands Legacy Action Plan for FY 2014-17 Rich Shaw, Land Conservation Manager with the Department of Environment, Agriculture Parks and Recreation (DEAPR), presented the following overview and PowerPoint slides: November 12, 2013 Department of Environment, Agriculture, Parks & Recreation Lands Legacy Program Conserving high-priority natural & cultural resource lands ✓ Voluntary ✓ Partnerships ✓ Funding (including $5 M grants) ✓ 1,001 acres for parks & preserves ✓ 2,030 acres private farms & natural areas • Changing conditions ➢ Improving regional economy ➢ NC Conservation Tax Credit eliminated ➢ Reduced funding from the State ➢ County parks & recreation master plan ➢ County funds for conservation easements Draft Lands Legacy Action Plan Objectives for 2014-17 • Continue current scaled-back approach • Complete projects already underway • Conserve significant natural areas • Establish/extend trails to link public places • Stewardship of existing properties Draft Lands Legacy Action Plan Priority Projects • Bingham Township Park • Upper Eno Preserve/Mtns-to-Sea Trail • Farmland easements • Jordan Lake Headwaters Preserve • Local Historic Landmarks (4 easements) Lands Legacy Program Protecting special places in Orange County Rich Shaw said he would like to emphasize the importance of partnerships, especially as funding has lessened. He said partnerships with OWASA, universities and local government have allowed for the accomplishment of a lot of projects. Referring to the slide on Priority Projects, he said Bingham Township is still on the radar screen, though there have been some stops and starts. He said the goal with Mountains to the Sea is to connect the Seven Mile Creek area into Hillsborough and the Riverwalk and Occoneechee State Park. Commissioner Rich asked how much has been invested in the Mountains to Sea Trail. Rich Shaw said no land has been acquired specifically for the Mountains to Sea Trail, though the state has used parts of their property. Commissioner Gordon said the partnerships are important. She commended staff on this effort, and said they have done a good job of making use of their funds. Dave Stancil said the reason there is still $1.3 million in funding left is because of the many partnerships. Commissioner Price asked if the summary list of projects is in priority order. Rich Shaw answered no. Commissioner Pelissier said she is supportive of the plan. She questioned whether all of the goals would be able to be addressed, given the limited monies. She asked about the prioritization of projects. Rich Shaw said a lot of this work is opportunity. He said some projects have been set aside due to lack of interest, and it is important to go with the flow. Commissioner Dorosin said he is so impressed with this project, and he would like to do the same type of land acquisition for affordable housing. He said that same aggressive mind set is needed. Chair Jacobs expressed his appreciation for this program. Chair Jacobs said he understands that OWASA has approached the County regarding the possibility of taking over recreation at Cane Creek. He questioned whether Cane Creek ought to be looked at as Bingham Township Park, with consideration of what uses can be made available to the public without compromising water quality. Stancil said staff is meeting with OWASA tomorrow. Chair Jacobs asked about payment-in-lieu projects. Dave Stancil said there are some payment lieu funds available for acquisition of land for open space and for construction. He said the new master plan speaks about payment in lieu. Chair Jacobs asked if there will be funds available that have not been budgeted. Dave Stancil said yes. He said the Bingham project in particular has funds available. Chair Jacobs said OWASA is no longer participating in conservation easement acquisition in its watersheds. He questioned whether this should be posed to the AOG to see if the governments would like to participate in protecting their own water supplies. He said the other option is to ask the OWASA board to re-consider participating. Chair Jacobs said the County has met twice with the Mayor of Durham to recommend that the city participate in easements in Little River and other parts of Orange County. He said the County is protecting Durham's water supply but the city is contributing nothing to preserve it. Chair Jacobs said there is a new city manager and new council members who may be more amenable to this concept. Chair Jacobs suggested a formal proposal to the City of Durham's staff to meet with County staff to talk about the inter-relation of storm water credits and whether the state is going to actively protect Jordan Lake. He said Durham may want to work with the County to do more to protect the water supply. Dave Stancil said farmland conservation is a priority, and there may be opportunities in the Little River watershed. Chair Jacobs asked if anyone had any objections to writing a letter to Mayor Bell and a similar letter to OWASA. There were no objections. Chair Jacobs asked if there will be money available to provide signs for historic landmarks. Dave Stancil said this has been talked about over the years. He said this could be part of the mix. Commissioner McKee said the Board just got through pinching pennies on the Northern Human Services Center project. He said the Board needs to keep priorities in mind, and the priority for him is serving residents. He said the signage takes a second seat by comparison. Commissioner Price said if prioritization needs to occur, there should be more emphasis on water quality. She said this is more important than trails. Chair Jacobs asked that when this item comes back to the Board, it includes the waiting list for agricultural easements, as well as an estimate on how much additional funding would be available for payments in lieu. 3. Space Study Update Jeff Thompson reviewed the background information as listed in the abstract. He presented the following PowerPoint slides: Space Study Update November 12, 2013 Work Session • Purpose: — To update the BOCC on the Space Study according to the BOCC adopted space study framework); — To receive and discuss the space study update and provide guidance to the Interim County Manager and staff in anticipation of the FY2014-15 goals, planning, and budget processes. Space Study Framework BOCC Adopted 6-18-13 • Characteristics: — Tool for Analysis, Recommendations, and Resource Discussion — Criteria and model for iterative and continuous space study — Annual Budget Process Input — Inform Board goals, planning and priorities Guiding Principles • Co-Location • Consolidation • Owning • Building and Maintaining According to Sustainable Practices • Evaluating and managing facilities based upon relative cost and benefit analysis Referring to the Guiding Principles slide, Jeff Thompson said the cost and benefit analysis was done by staff, along with consultant ECS Carolinas. He said Wayne Fenton, Assistant Manager of Asset Management Services, has led this effort. Wayne Fenton reviewed the following slides: Basis of Study • Space use & needs assessment — Observation — Management & staff Input, interview, questionnaire • Physical assessment & inventory — Thorough inspection & evaluation — Maintenance and utility data/experience — Identification of stressed and/or under-utilized assets Scope of Study • Basis of study information analysis — Short term assessment — Longer Term assessment — Consideration of BOCC goals, planning initiatives, and goals • Study suggestions and recommendations framed by: — Guiding principles — Defensible courses of action for stressed and under-utilized assets — Providing exceptional facilities for County service delivery — Recognizing, anticipating and planning for growth/contraction trends Pete Dominico, with ECS Carolinas presented the following slides: ECS Carolinas, LLP Work with AMS staff to provide: • Space use assessment • Space use efficiencies, trends, needs • Physical facilities assessment • Facilities asset methodology & model • Groundwork for further analysis, staff& Board discussions Space Use Assessment • Observation • Orange County generally follows proper use of space • General administrative office baseline: • 250 usable square feet per employee; • Orange County is within reasonable variance of baseline • Use of office space as storage is the largest component of baseline difference Physical Facilities Assessment • Observation, Operations Cost Inputs, Capital Needs, Relative Market Value • All Orange County general administrative office facilities are considered "Class B" or "Class C" Facilities Physical Assessment • Public asset "model conversion"to accepted commercial real estate valuation standards • Cost > Relative Market Value = "Stressed Asset" • (Dep Value + Cap Need) > Replacement Cost= "Stressed Asset" General Findings • Orange County has a reasonably efficient portfolio in both areas of study • Building program over the past several years has yielded results in line with BOCC space goals • Adequate expansion spaces available • Some inefficient areas for discussion • More organized and programmed storage may address immediate space concerns from the Department Directors • Southern Campus programming discussion needed in preparation for future budget discussions Jeff Thompson presented the following slides: General Administrative Office Space - Whitted Building - Link Government Services Center - Govt. Services Annex Storage Assets - 510 Meadowlands -AMS North Campus - Revere Road Campus • EAC Records storage • Former Car Wash facility - Department Controlled Areas Suggestions for Discussion and Feedback • Emphasize Department and County storage organization and policy (AMS can drive this) • Consider uses for Whitted 2nd floor programmable space (potential Elections uses, DEAPR uses, etc.) FY14-15 CIP • Consider more efficient uses for GSA, Link Suggestions for Discussion and Feedback • Growth of Aging Programs to serve aging population • Embrace electronic records storage and management • Continue programming discussions for Southern Campus (SUP-modification request of Chapel Hill expected in late Spring- early Summer) Pete Dominico said this model will allow the County to plug in numbers to see how it affects possible financial stressors and space use. He said this model does not take into account the very specific entities that are contained in the CIP. Pete Dominico said the County as a whole is not far off in efficiency, though there are a few individual buildings that are off. He said there were repeated requests for break rooms and group space, and there are some areas that have inefficient storage use He said the general administrative office facilities would be considered class B and class C offices. He said these are all very nice spaces that are classified as class B because they lack marble, granite and extravagant bathrooms. He said there are some assets that do not have good commercially available rates, such as the courthouse, jails, and maintenance facilities. He said a different analysis was done on these instead of a square foot rental rate. He said this was done to determine a more accurate book value. Wayne Fenton reviewed a circle graphic slide on stressed assets and resource priorities. He said the goal was to see where uses can be improved to create the highest and best value. He said the overlapping circles indicate areas where there is stress from a physical assessment standpoint as well as the appropriateness of use. Wayne Fenton reviewed the market value numbers from the table on page 43 of the abstract. He said the Environmental and Agricultural Center (EAC) was the most stressed. He said the original design of the building did not allow for much natural daylight, and the HVAC system was not designed to heat and cool the building as it is currently laid out. Jeff Thompson pointed out the market rental cost column on the chart, as related to the square foot rate. He said the only building that falls into the stress category is the EAC. He said this building is costing the County $11 per square foot, and the rental market value is only $7-10 per square foot. Wayne Fenton said there are assumptions, which are needed for taxes. He said if an assessment is erroneous, it does not make the model more or less valid. The individual assessments can be modified if necessary. Commissioner McKee asked for an explanation of the annual costs per square foot. Pete Dominico said this is the maintenance cost and the estimated depreciation. Commissioner McKee asked what the cost of the rental space would include. Pete Dominico said this is full service and would be all inclusive. He said this is why some were estimated, in order to provide an apples to apples comparison. Commissioner Gordon asked for clarification of stressed assets on page 43. Pete Dominico said there were none in that category. Commissioner Gordon referred to bullet 6 on page 5. She asked what this means and if there will be an adopted intent. Jeff Thompson said the intent is to inform the discussion in preparation for the CIP process. He said the CIP is being submitted to finance in December, and the Board's discussion and recommendations will help focus the staff's work in the CIP Process. Commissioner Gordon questioned the adoption of projects prior to the annual CIP process. However she said if this is just a definition of priorities, then that would be helpful. She referred to the bottom of page 6 and asked if the areas that were not part of the space study have been listed. Jeff Thompson said no. Commissioner Gordon referred to table 4 on page 23 and said asked for an explanation of the meanings of the columns. Pete Dominico said this table is the least defined item in all of commercial real estate. He said an enormous amount of time was spent on this. He said there are guidelines to classify space to lease out a building. He said that is what these numbers represent. Jeff Thompson referred to page 13 of the abstract. Commissioner Gordon asked for a more detailed explanation. Jeff Thompson walked through an explanation of each column as it relates to the Environmental and Agricultural Building. Commissioner Gordon asked about page 26-27 and the Eurosport Soccer Center parking lot repair. She asked if this large dollar amount for the cost is correct. Staff could not answer that question at this time. Commissioner Gordon questioned why buildings that are not very old would need to have their HVAC systems replaced. Pete Dominico said HVAC units are shown to have an expectant life of 15 years. He said this is a 10 year capital plan, so any building that is greater than 5 years old will have a replacement in this plan. Pete Dominico said there are varying levels of definition in a capital plan. He said the information in front of them is actuarial, and it takes everything into account. He said this plan did not get down to designer specifics or what originally went into the buildings. He said this is a general, apples to apples comparison of each building in order to allow for a cost analysis. He said ECS does not say that the CIP should be based on this. He said there might have been an error in the Eurosport Parking lot number, or this could be the correct number to completely replace the parking lot. He said the option of doing maintenance or spot repairs is not accounted for in these tables. He said these numbers are a very broad guide to determine which buildings are stressed. Commissioner Gordon said there are a lot of old buildings in the County which needed renovations, but she did not expect to see such high dollar requirements for the newer buildings. Pete Dominico clarified that the costs listed are to replace items, and there is no consideration of a simple repair cost. Commissioner Gordon said she wants to underscore the fact that the programming at the Southern Human Services Center needs to be examined, and then the appropriate construction to provide more services there needs to be completed. Commissioner Pelissier asked if there is a policy for storage that will encourage staff and will save on the costs of buildings. Wayne Fenton said this has not been developed yet, but it is one of the items being discussed, and there is movement in that direction. Jeff Thompson said there is a converging basket of record retention requirements and different departments have different time frames. He said this makes it difficult. He said electronic record retention is supposed to solve some of this, but that also has different regulations. Commissioner Pelissier said this was a very useful report, and the analysis was very helpful for her to see. Commissioner Pelissier said aging space needs is an area that has not been addressed. She asked if there are methods to estimate what kind of increased space may be needed for the aging population. Jeff Thompson said information was gathered from every department regarding regular service delivery to the aging population as time goes on. He said this is affecting everyone. He said conversations have taken place about how to use this expertise to make long range space plans for the general older population. Chair Jacobs asked if there is a formula or mechanism for recording all of the different types of storage needs in order to gain an idea of short and long term needs in each department. Jeff Thompson said that mechanism does not exist now, but things are moving in that direction. Chair Jacobs asked about the next steps for the Board. Jeff Thompson said the next step for the Board is to provide guidance and prioritization, since this feeds the CIP Process. Chair Jacobs said the impetus for this study related to a building that was said to be past its usefulness. He said one conclusion that needs to be made is the lifespan of that building, as well as the alternatives for uses. He asked if this will come back for discussion. Jeff Thompson said the prioritization of a facility depends on the direction of the Board of County Commissioners. 4. County Fair Working Group Report Commissioner Dorosin introduced this item. He said the County fair idea was raised at the retreat in 2013, and in June the Board authorized a preliminary work group. This group, which included Commissioner Dorosin, Commissioner Price and many staff members, began to look at costs, feasibility, and other factors. He said the group met several times over the summer and moved forward according to their charge. He said they brought together a lot of research and resources, visited a couple of sites, and held a public information session and an online survey. He said over 400 people filled out the survey, and the overall responses were positive. He said the feedback from the community meeting and the survey is included in the materials. Commissioner Dorosin said there was talk in June about attempting to make this project a revenue neutral or revenue positive project. He said the committee believes there are opportunities to reach that goal. He said this may not happen in the first year, but it would be more realistic for this to happen within the first three or four years. Dave Stancil reviewed the following PowerPoint presentation: Orange County Fair Working Group Report— November 12, 2013 Background (-,q Charged June 18 — Commissioners Dorosin and Price, Interim Manager and staff (-,q Met July 10-November 6 (-,q Examined sites, other fairs, budgets, spoke to event representatives and NCDA County Fairs coordinator (-,q Invited interested parties and public to Oct 30 Information-Sharing Session Recommended Fair (-,q Spring 2015 - late-April (-,q Friday-Saturday ("soft" Thursday night?) (-,q Friday— schools? (-,q Blackwood Farm Park (-,q Evaluate after first run whether spring or fall (-,q Themes: c�3 Agriculture, local foods and restaurants c�3 Arts and local artists c�3 County's diverse history c�3 Education and youth c�3 Live music c�3 (Games) Revenue/Costs (-,q Premature to come up with hard revenues/costs (-,q Range shown reflects variety of options (-,q Both costs and revenues tied to the scale of the event (-,q Scale (costs) and revenues linked together (-,q Large contingency due to first time / uncertainty Cost/ Revenue Estimates (Chart) Conceptual Budget (-,q Use as a planning tool (-,q "Living" document c�3 study, editing, project planning, cost validation, funding (-,q Should establish expectation of$185-200K minimum cost (-,q Multiple potential revenue sources (-,q Large cost drivers: c�3 Site access, environmental impact, site infrastructure, portable infrastructure Goal (-,q Be Cost/Revenue-neutral by year 3 (2017) (-,q By year 1 if possible Blackwood Farm (map) Aerial Map Festival Map Strategic Plan Committee (-,q Create "Coordinating Committee for County Fair" (-,q Core group of organizations, interested parties and persons with expertise (-,q Allow flexibility for others to join as identified (-,q Should develop strategic plan for 2015 Fair c�3 Initial plan and budget expectations for FY 14-15 (March 2014) c�3 Detailed plan and management structure with three-year financial plan Important Notes (-,q Important to coordinate with other events, livestock owners etc. (-,q Visitor's Bureau funding assistance (-,q Blackwood Farm — move up part of CIP? (-,q Need strong volunteer base Recommendations (-,q Receive and discuss the report (-,q Identify any needed further information (-,q Consider whether to appoint Strategic Plan group (Coordinating Committee) in January (-,q If yes, ask Working Group to develop draft charge, scope of work and timeframe? (-,q Instruct Clerk to the Board on solicitation of potential appointments Dave Stancil said Blackwood Farm was chosen as it is near the population center of the County and it is between Chapel Hill and Hillsborough. Dave Stancil said the idea was not to have a full fledged midway, but there is interest in having a landmark ride, such as a Ferris wheel. Dave Stancil referred to the cost/revenue estimates slide and said there is a big range. He said a $60,000 event will be minimal and small scale. He said the other end of the range, at $185,000, will bring in more activities, more equipment rental and more revenue potential. He discussed the Blackwood Farm Map and the aerial photo, as well as the site map from a past festival. He noted that Blackwood Farm does not have a lot of existing infrastructure and it might be necessary to look at a new entry road and consider moving these items up in the CIP. Commissioner McKee asked for the number of hours staff have put into this planning process. Dave Stancil said this number is 100-105 hours collectively, and this does not include individual time on side projects. Commissioner McKee said, based on the hourly rate of the employees, there has already been $2200 spent on staff planning time so far. He said with every other Board issue there is an upfront working budget, and with this project that is reversed. He said he does not think this fair can be done for $60,000 and possibly not even for $184,000. He said he has spoken to several groups recently and he finishes by asking for opinions on the County Fair. He said residents commonly ask why this would not be sponsored by a civic organization; what the cost would be; and what impact this would have on Hogg Day or the livestock show. He said he is not hearing the same responses Commissioner Dorosin mentioned from the survey. He has some severe reservations about the County doing this and how this will affect other organizations. Commissioner Pelissier said she has some of the same concerns. She still wants to know the costs of the infrastructure. She asked if the projected cost range includes the time of current staff or only additional staff. She is unclear about what this cost includes and whether this would take staff away from current projects. She questioned the dependence on a strong volunteer base and whether not having volunteers would add to the costs. Jeff Thompson said the opportunity costs of staff are not in. He said the volunteer contributions are called out as a revenue line item. He said figures just came in from the Efland Rodeo, which has a solid volunteer staff. He said this event ticketed $33,000 and their costs were $25,000, which did not include staff time or volunteer time. He said all of these costs were matched by corporate sponsorships. He said this means that the profit was $33,000, though the staff and volunteers are not factored in. Jeff Thompson said there was an attempt to budget for an event planner, but this does not count the other workers. Jeff Thompson said the rodeo has been in business for 25 years. Commissioner Pelissier shared some comments she has received from the public. She said those people who come to a meeting about the fair are typically the people who want a fair. She said she has gotten phone calls from people who say they will not attend an event like this. She said people have said they like the idea of a fair, but then they ask about the cost to the County and the taxpayers, and this changes their opinion. She said others simply say the County should be spending money on other things. Commissioner Rich asked who finds corporate sponsors for the rodeo. Jeff Thompson said he did not know. Commissioner Rich asked if this would be the job of one staff person or the event planner. Dave Stancil said there are event planners that are able to handle both fund raising and event planning. Commissioner Rich said she spoke with staff at the Visitor's Bureau (VB). She said the VB board has not discussed this yet, but the $10,000 certainly fits into what they do. She said the goal was to put this money toward someone coordinating the event. She noted that there are about 31 fairs or festivals every year, and the Visitors Bureau is not offering money to every fair or event in the County. She said she hopes to get some feedback after the meeting this month. Commissioner Rich asked if there has been any discussion about combining this fair with another established event. Commissioner Dorosin said this had been discussed. He said one of the goals is for this fair to be a countywide event. He said most of the County events are much more discrete in their appeal and outreach, and they are not countywide. He said this can be discussed, and the group is happy to try and do this. Commissioner Rich said everyone had received an email from Margaret Cannell who has been working on Hogg Day for years. She said it would not be a good idea to have something in the spring that would be too close to Hogg Day. She does not want to invade on this event or stress the amount of people that would attend either event. Commissioner Gordon said her concern has to do with the venue. She said Blackwood Farm is not in the CIP until years 6-10, and there have already been discussions about current debt capacity. She is concerned that this venue does not have any infrastructure at this point. Commissioner Price said she has gotten feedback, and residents are excited about the opportunity to bring people together around one countywide event. She said it would be great for people in the northern part of the County. She said there were people who came to the meetings feeling very skeptical about the fair who were contributing ideas by the end of the meeting. She said the community building aspect is central. She said one of the positive aspects of having it at Blackwood Farm is the opportunity to put the farm to use and to show off one of their County assets. Chair Jacobs summarized that there is some support for moving ahead, but the following questions and issues need to be addressed: • Hear feedback from Visitors Bureau • Explore the opportunity to partner with another event • Use of an event planner needs to be nailed down ( He feels this position is underestimated) • Address the venue issue and how to invest in Blackwood Farm • Costs need to be made clearer • Timing He suggested that it is not yet time to appoint a working group, since the majority of the Board is not committed yet. He said the next step would be to get more details on the finances and timing. Commissioner Dorosin said the reason the information was not more detailed was because the group wanted the Board of County Commissioners' input before moving ahead too far. Chair Jacobs said the Board needs more information before providing direction. He said the group should go back and respond to the Board's concerns and then a decision can be made about whether to move forward. Michael Talbert asked if there are any more questions that need to be answered. He said he did not hear any consensus on whether the Board really wanted to have a fair. Chair Jacobs said he would like to know more about the survey results. He asked what would be done with this information and how it could be incorporated into the decision making process. Commissioner Price said the group decided not to present this as a done deal. She said various ideas have been fleshed out, including the idea a fair should run for at least three days. She said this would especially be required to attract midway rides. She said these types of discussions have been had, but the group did not want to dictate these decisions to the Board, without feedback first. Chair Jacobs said he feels the Board has given responses and posed some questions and concerns that need to be addressed. Commissioner Pelissier said if infrastructure is put in for a fair at Blackwood Farm she is concerned about how this would affect the park in the long run. Commissioner Price said this was discussed, and the thought was that the infrastructure needed for the fair would go toward what was needed for the park. She said one example is the entry road, which would serve both the park and the fair. Commissioner Dorosin said the idea was just to move the park plan up. Commissioner Pelissier said she would like staff to tell exactly how this fits into the park plans. Commissioner McKee said he attended the information session. He agreed that there were some enthusiastic recommendations, but there were also some concerns about this fair affecting the existing events in the county. He said there are concerns about conflicts with Hogg Day, as well as the 4-H livestock show that has been held in April for the past 60 years. He said this livestock show requires a high number of volunteers, as will the fair. He said his concern is that this will take a lot of paid county staff. Commissioner McKee questioned what would be moved back for the CIP dollars, and what will not be provided that is being provided now. He asked if the idea is to have a tax increase in order to accomplish the additional spending. He said this would only apply if a large amount of money is spent, but there is no framework to know how much money this will be. He is concerned about just the cost of the road being put in. He can foresee the infrastructure price going as high as a million dollars. Chair Jacobs said it is not realistic that this will ready in 18 months, because this is County government, and the wheels move slowly. He said a realistic schedule needs to be set. He said the group did a great job of getting to the point of the hard questions being asked. Michael Talbert said the group can meet again, and the information will probably come back in to the Board in January. He said a timeline will happen. He said there will be capital improvements to the site and the amount depends on the size and scope. He said the entire scope of the fair has not been defined. He asked if this is what the Board wants to see. Chair Jacobs said yes. Michael Talbert said the group can come back with size and scope and complexity in January. He agreed that 18 months is not realistic. Chair Jacobs said this is not meant to discourage the group, but now the questions are getting more serious. Commissioner Dorosin said all of the concerns raised by the Board have already been discussed in the committee meetings. He said there is an event almost every weekend in Orange County, so there is always a conflict. He noted that a successful event was held at Blackwood Farm two years ago with no additional infrastructure. He said this event could start off small scale and grow. He said he does not agree that the County shouldn't put money into the event. He feels this event is important and is of value to the community 5. Redesigned County Logo Michael Talbert said there was a recommendation by the Board to get a review committee together to look at the logo. He said the committee included Commissioner Price and Commissioner Rich, and logo options were reviewed. He noted the preferred option, as well as the other options being put before the Board. Commissioner Price said the point was to have something clean and simple that conveyed something about Orange County. She said the committee looked at what parks and recreation had used and then made some modifications. She said this logo depicts the Eno River that runs through Orange County, as well as the County's concern for agriculture, green space, and walking. She discussed the other logo options. Commissioner Rich said she prefers the darker orange color. She said this shows the sky, the river, and the mountains. She said the committee did discuss the comments about the last logo and tried to consider these in the process. Carla Banks said the goal was to create one unified symbol for Orange County that would give everyone an identifiable connection by focusing on the landscape. Commissioner Gordon asked where the logos originated. Commissioner Rich said there were some logos from the design team, and then things were cut and pasted together. She said aspects were pulled from what Carla Banks used last time and free lancing was done. Commissioner McKee asked if the logo is always done in color or if it is ever printed in black and white. Carla Banks said once a logo is approved, there will be a black and white and a color option. Commissioner McKee said he printed it in black and white, and it fades out. Commissioner Rich said the official black and white version will be done in grayscale. Chair Jacobs said it looks like a 1920's woman's hat. He said it does have a nice sense of flow and the colors are interesting. Commissioner Rich said most of the county logos have a free flowing design now instead of the seals. Commissioner Gordon said it would be better to just have Orange County and the line with the darker colors. She said she did not know what this logo meant. Commissioner Pelissier said she liked what was proposed. Chair Jacobs thanked the committee for working on this. He said this will be added to a future agenda for a decision. There was some discussion about the different options and the removal of the line. Chair Jacobs said all of the options can be put on the agenda for a vote. 6. Planning for January 31, 2014 Board Retreat (No Abstract or Other Materials Provided) Chair Jacobs solicited volunteers and said he would like for this committee to meet twice before December 10tH Commissioner McKee, Commissioner Pelissier, Commissioner Gordon and Chair Jacobs volunteered. Chair Jacobs said the chair would narrow it down to three Board members by the end of the week. A motion was made by Commissioner Rich seconded by Commissioner Pelissier to adjourn the meeting at 10:37 pm. VOTE: UNANIMOUS Barry Jacobs, Chair Donna Baker, CMC Clerk to the Board