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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 02-12-2013 APPROVED 3/19/2013 MINUTES BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS WORK SESSION February 12, 2013 7:00 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in a work session on Tuesday, February 12, 2013 at 7:00 p.m. at the Link Government Services Center in Hillsborough, N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Jacobs and Commissioners Mark Dorosin, Alice M. Gordon, Earl McKee, Bernadette Pelissier, Renee Price and Penny Rich COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Frank Clifton, Assistant County Managers Michael Talbert, Clarence Grier and Clerk to the Board Donna Baker (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below) NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE. 1. Recommendations and Report from Animal Services Advisory Board on Sterilization and Micro-chipping of Recovered Stray Animals Animal Services Director Bob Marotto introduced himself, Lyn White, Animal Services Advisory Board Vice Chair and Susan Elmore, Animal Services Advisory Board Chair. He said that the work being discussed this evening is an extension of the strategic plan on addressing pet overpopulation that was brought forward to the Board in early 2010. He said the overarching goals of that plan are, through a proactive program of spaying and neutering within the community, to 1) reduce the number of animals that are euthanized due to lack of homes and 2) reduce the number of animals that come to the county in need of shelter and care. This will control the costs of animal care and control services in the long run. He noted that Animal Services will be presenting to the Board on February 19th to present a request for resolution on Spay Day and to discuss a program of sterilization for pets in households dependent on public assistance or households who are economically challenged. He said that there are key components of the recommendations being presented at this meeting that seek to support those people in their efforts to obtain sterilization for their pets. He said the proactive approach in their strategic plan is part of a plan to reduce the number of animals that come into the shelter. He said that in 2000, the number of animals coming into the shelter was more than 6,000 per year, compared to 3,500 last year. The rate of reproduction or intake per capita in the county in 2000 was about 47, compared to 27 per thousand last year. He stressed the need to continue to drive that rate down, given that human population is continuing to grow. The spay and neuter program has been helpful in achieving their goal. . Dr. Lyn White said that the committee was tasked to look at animals that are repeatedly stray and recovered by an owner. She asked if there is a way to strengthen the legislation regarding people who repeatedly recover stray pets. She said a task force convened to ask if there is a way to enhance the recovery process and to limit the number of strays that are reproducing, thus reducing their euthanasia rate. She said the task force looked at literature regarding mandatory spaying/neutering of recovered animals in other areas, veterinary literature, recommendations of animal welfare organizations. After review of this information, the task form came up with a strategic plan that was then presented to the Animal Services Advisory Board. The board unanimously adopted it. Dr. White reviewed the executive summary. She said the first part of the plan is a strong recommendation for micro chipping, as micro chipped animals are much more readily returned to their owners. She said micro chipping used to be part of Orange County Animal Services until it was cut from the county budget during a time of fiscal difficulty. She said there is now a charge of$25 to place a micro-chip, and this is voluntary. She said that the new recommendation is, when a stray is brought to the shelter and an owner comes to recover the animal, the owner must pay for micro chipping in order for the animal to be returned. Dr. White said that part two addresses whether animals should be mandatorily spayed and neutered before being returning to their owner. She said that the committee was very interested in moving in that direction at first. However, after reviewing the information, the committee realized that this is not being locally enforced in North Carolina. She said that these mandatory spay and neuter programs are unusual in the US and most national organizations recommend against them. Concerns are that owners will go underground, avoiding vets and licensing, in fear of mandatory spay neuter laws. She said that the shelter cannot spay or neuter animals that don't belong to them. She said that this means if an owner comes to recover a pet, the shelter cannot enforce spaying or neutering in the shelter before returning the animal. Considering the research, it was decided that there were other ways to encourage spaying/neutering animals without legislating. The committee strongly recommended an education process and, as mentioned by Bob Marotto earlier, a very inexpensive or free spay and neuter program. Dr. White said there is need for help from the Board of County Commissioners on deciding whether or not to implement a tiered and differential recovery program. She referred to the tiered pay licensing system, which charges more for reproductive pets than spayed/neutered pets. She said the idea is to take that model and apply it to animals who are recovered. The first time an animal is recovered, it will cost a certain fee to get the animal back and the fee is different depending on whether the animal is spayed/neutered or not. She said that for the second recovery of the same animal, it would cost more for that animal to be recovered and there is again a differential based on the reproductive status. This increase continues with the third recovery, but with an added incentive to spay or neuter. For this third recovery, there will be a $100 deposit that will be returned if the owner returns within 90 days to show proof that the animal has been spayed or neutered. She said that with these fees and a healthy dose of education there is hope that the objective of reducing the number of reproductive animals will be reached. Commissioner Price asked for clarification about the $25 microchip fee and Dr. White said there is an impoundment fee, inoculation fee, possible licensing fee, as well as the micro chipping fee. Commissioner Dorosin asked about the state veterinary rules regarding spaying and neutering an animal that does not belong to the shelter. He asked how long it takes for the animal to become a shelter animal. Bob Marotto said the shelter holds the animal for a minimum of 5 calendar days, 3 of those days the shelter must be open to the public. If it is a legally surrendered animal, the shelter could decide to adopt out the animal immediately. Commissioner Dorosin asked, if five days pass and the dog is reproductive, how quickly would they move forward to spay it. Bob Marotto said that if they think the animal is highly adoptable they may schedule it for sterilization on the 6th day; otherwise, they would have someone to adopt the animal and then schedule the sterilization. This avoids the cost of sterilizing an animal who is then not adopted. Commissioner Dorosin asked, if the animal is not adoptable, then is it not on the spay/neuter list. Bob Marotto said it would not be on a spay and neuter list but on another list. Commissioner McKee noted that, in the abstract, very few animals are recovered three or more times. He asked what seems to be the reason given for these repeat recovered animals, and he also noted that the fees seem oppressively high. Bob Marotto said, to his first question, there is a lack of pet ownership responsibility and the animal not being suitably confined. Dr. White said the fee is high so as to affect the owner enough to get the animal spayed or neutered or confined. She said, in some cases, the owner chooses to give up the animal rather than pay the fee and in those cases, it is usually the best for the animal. Bob Marotto said every time a person recovers an animal, a multi-lingual document will be given and a phone call will be made to inform the person about low cost or free spay or neuter services available for qualifying incomes. He said that the education and the incentives should help motivate people. Commissioner Pelissier said she appreciated the thoroughness of the research and information. She said that even though they plan to give information on spay/neuter to those who recover pets, she wonders if there is a way to know why people don't spay or neuter. Dr. White said there are so many pros for neutering or spaying an animal. However, many people fear weight gain, personality change, etc. She said that education may change some of these attitudes. Bob Marotto said those who have been involved with spay and neuter over the last 15 years will tell you that there has been a shift from education to affordable spay and neuter programs. He said a number of organizations found that advertising was generating interest in sterilization; however the target audience couldn't access it because of limited means. He said this led to the organization of subsidized programs to make it accessible. This is the model that has been followed. He said, in the last 2 years, the shelter has done more than 500 spays and neuters of pets belonging to families receiving public assistance, or with limited house household income. He stressed that the availability is a central issue and should be combined with education and incentives. Commissioner Price asked if they had a goal of a number or percentage of animals to spay and neuter. Bob Marotto said the hope is to get up to 650 targeted sterilizations each year, which is calculated on the basis of experience other communities have had. He said experience has shown that with six or seven targeted spays or neuters per thousand, the reproduction rate and the shelter intake numbers decline. He said that targeted sterilization means reaching out to people who would not otherwise sterilize their pets. Frank Clifton recognized Bob Marotto and the Animal Services Advisory Board for all of their proactive programs for animal welfare in Orange County. Chair Jacobs noted that there was a surgical suite built in the shelter. He said there are also photos on the web for people looking for animals. He asked if a recovered animal can only stay up to 5 days before it is decided it is expendable and if the shelter factors in how well cared for the animals appear to be. Bob Marotto said if they have an animal that has been subject to neglect and is a stray, the animal would be sustained and observed for any physical and temperamental improvements. He said, if they feel that this animal may become adoptable later, attempts would be made to do that at the shelter or to reach out to partnering organizations for fostering opportunities. He gave examples of the ways in which social media and other avenues are used to place the adoptable animals. The only exceptions are cruelty cases and other animals involved in investigations. He said there is a discretionary process used to prevent euthanizing adoptable animals. Commissioner McKee noted that this agency has always tried to work with residents to come to equitable solutions. Commissioner Rich asked how most animals come to the shelter. Bob Marotto said that in 2012, 60-70% of the animals were brought to the shelter by a member of the public who found them and the rest are found by their animal control officers. Chair Jacobs asked about the next steps. Bob Marotto said the desired plan is to bring forward amendments to their ordinance during this upcoming budget process. 2. Conceptual Facilities Use Analysis & Presentation Chair Jacobs again referred to information at their places: Pink sheet- Breakdown of Attachments Yellow sheet- Draft Minutes from 11/13 work session Blue sheet—Information from Commissioner Gordon Frank Clifton gave some background on this process and he said the county has built new facilities over the past few years, moved different county departments around with consolidation, moved away from facilities with higher operating costs and offset long range costs where they can. He said at one time the county contemplated purchasing the Wal-Mart shopping center for county operations but ended up with just a portion of it for Department of Social Service offices. He noted that the Board of Elections has been moved and he reviewed the departments in the Revere Road facility and noted the significant maintenance needs of this building. He said that the building next door has housed several different departments, but parts of the building are in a flood plain and it has several issues with HVAC and electrical. He noted that the area being used for this meeting was at one time conceived to be a future meeting room for the County Commissioners. He said that financial requirements of adapting the space put this on hold. He reviewed some of the facilities that were toured earlier in the day: Link Government Services Center, Annex, Agricultural Building and the Whitted Building. He said, with Whitted, the Cultural Arts organization approached the county for sharing use of the vacated library space in that building. He said there was question of cost of renovations and the issue of continued operations of other county facilities in the building and the need to be compatible with that. Frank Clifton said currently the Board of County Commissioners move around to various meeting facilities, especially in the northern part of the county. He said that there is a need to have a permanent meeting facility, not for the staff, but for the public and for the sake of technology and presentation issues. He said that even if it's an interim step, there needs to be a permanent place to locate the County Commissioners. He said the goal is not to make a decision tonight but to give a thorough analysis of these buildings and their potential and to gather feedback. Jeff Thompson, Asset Management Services director introduced himself and Ken Redfoot, architect. Frank Clifton noted the fact that much of the discussion would reference the maps and drawings included in attachments of Item 2. Jeff Thompson said there are three scenarios with Whitted. He said that the first is the meeting room and he referenced the space study, which resolves several issues, but what remains unsolved is the permanent meeting facility. Attachment C: Ken Redfoot noted the current setup of the Whitted Center on the blueprints. He said the ground level is the medical clinic of the Health Dept. The mid/first level is the former library with large open spaces that are very accommodating for meeting room and theater type venues. He said that the site and the parking are adequate for the use. Margaret Hauth, Planning Director from Hillsborough said that depends on the event. Ken Redfoot said that if there is a joint space use with the theater, the theater will require more seating than permanent seating arrangement. Ken Redfoot said they can add parking to accommodate. Ken Redfoot said with relatively light modification to the floor plan, it was possible to accommodate a Board of County Commissioners meeting room with a large double volume space. He said there would be additional toilets to accommodate assembly occupancy requirements. He said there would also be a pre-function room and a Board of County Commissioners function room, flanking the overall space. He said there would be a storage room with a freight elevator, another pre-function and office area. He said they would need to add a ramp in the back and support areas. He said that for the theater arrangement plan, there is an expanded seating arrangement, additional portable stage, along with flexible space. Commissioner Gordon referenced her tour of the facility earlier in the day. She said the Board of County Commissioners did walk through it previously and have discussed this previously. She said there are some concerns, one of which is parking and another is the impact on the residential neighborhood by both parking and noise. She said another concern is the portable stage being moved in and out. She said that the arts group needs a permanent stage and space that cultural arts groups have permanent access to. She said it seems that the competing uses would have schedule conflicts. Ken Redfoot said the project was looked at as a large theater that could then serve as a BOCC meeting room; or just make it a permanent meeting space for Board of County Commissioners only and use extra space for administrative offices. He said that the space could provide approximately 20 offices, including a large flexible meeting and closed session room; and there would still be space for enough restrooms to accommodate the number of people using the space. He then reviewed the two options: 1) Large volume theater/BOCC combination; and 2) BOCC Meeting space only with additional office space. Commissioner Dorosin asked if the first option was also a meeting room only. Ken Redford said that the first option would have fewer chairs for BOCC, but would have an additional section for theater seating, making it a much larger space. He said this was to accommodate adding a stage and a 300 seat venue. Commissioner McKee said the third alternative would also be for Board of County Commissioners and for Town of Hillsborough and the school board to use the meeting room, with no theater. Commissioner Dorosin asked if one and two are the same but with different uses and Ken Redford said yes. Frank Clifton said that the first option provided another use besides just local government, while the third option is strictly for local government use if the decision was not to support the arts group. . Commissioner McKee noted that with the third option the Board of County Commissioners, the town and the school board would all use the space. Jeff Thompson said that the two illustrations are estimated at$1.2-$1.4 million including improvements outside of the facility with additional parking and paving. Frank Clifton said neighborhood feedback was in favor of paving the parking lots and that it makes sense to do landscaping along with paving. Jeff Thompson said this is a sprinkled building and max capacity is 300 with 292 parking spaces, according to the Fire Marshal. Commissioner Price asked if the Town of Hillsborough said they wanted to have their meetings there and Chair Jacobs said he did talk with mayor and they are interested. Chair Jacobs said they are open to the idea of paying a fee for room usage when available, although there is no hard and fast commitment yet. Commissioner Price asked if there was another space for soccer fields if area five playfields are paved. Ken Redfoot said they backed off of that parking plan as they learned the parking requirements. Jeff Thompson said the third plan for meeting space with admin space is up to $1.3-1.5 million. He said this is because of the upgrade to office use and addition of wall space. Frank Clifton said the upfits that the arts group would require on soundproofing, curtains, additional chairs and stages would be paid for by the arts group with separate funding. Commissioner Gordon said when this was talked about before, she had two thoughts. These were put in writing and they are outlined in the blue attachment sheet quoted here: Commissioner Gordon's memo: All, The purpose of this email is to provide comments concerning item 2 on the February 12 work session agenda, "Conceptual Facilities Use Analysis and Presentation." 1. REVIEW OF FACILITY NEEDS The county has previously done studies concerning the space necessary to address long term county operational needs. The resulting reports included principles to guide the development of county facilities, a description of departmental space requirements, and recommendations concerning the types of facilities needed to address those departmental requirements. I believe we should review the county's current overall space needs in that same systematic way before we spend any money to renovate older facilities, construct new facilities, or decide to deconstruct or sell older facilities. This review, whether or not it is a "study," would provide a context for making an informed decision. 2. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS' MEETING ROOM The location for a new meeting room is something the commissioners have discussed previously. It is my opinion that if we add a meeting room in Hillsborough, it should be as close to the center of other county operations in the town as possible. To me, that would mean locating it downtown at or near the east or west county campus. The parking deck is under- utilized, so there should be enough parking available downtown. Therefore I have suggested that we should consider an addition to the Link Center, if and when we could afford it. This addition could be a new 5000 square foot meeting room, located where the adjacent parking lot is located now. If the cost was $300 to $400 per square foot (as indicated in the November 13, 2012 work session), then the cost of a new meeting room would be about $1.5 million to $2.0 million. The statement attributed to me about requesting an analysis of placing a meeting facility at the Government Services Center Annex (GSA) site must have been a misunderstanding. I did not suggest that we should put a new 9800 square foot meeting facility at the GSA site. Instead, my recommendation related to the GSA was made in the context of another suggestion that we should deconstruct the GSA to make room for more parking. I stated that we should not deconstruct the GSA until we had an overall plan for county facilities, and then we could make a decision. I also stated that if we wanted to build a new meeting room at the Link Center, we would need to meet the Town of Hillsborough's zoning and other requirements, including parking. My statements about the GSA were made in the context of satisfying Hillsborough's parking requirements for new meeting space constructed as an addition to the Link Center. Alice Gordon In addition to the other concerns, Commissioner Gordon said that after seeing the proposed joint usage configuration, she was concerned about the impact on the neighborhood and the difficulties with parking. She said that the arts group would need permanent space as would the Board of County Commissioners. She said that external concerns aside, the shared use design doesn't seem to satisfy either need. She said that, with the idea of consolidating several services to one location, the meeting facility should be downtown. She noted that there is an underutilized parking deck, many facilities already downtown and a county campus. She said she feels there should be a meeting room on the campus. She suggested adding to the Link Government Services Center. She acknowledged that there may be planning and HVAC issues, but the concept is that their core facilities are at Link Government Services Center and that is where the meeting room should be. She feels the meeting space should be downtown and that there will be scheduling and other issues with sharing meeting space with performance space. She said there has been excellent analysis done of the facilities, but no analysis of the needs. Commissioner McKee said Commissioner Gordon touched on many of his concerns about space needs and the scheduling of a joint facility or a shared facility with other towns and schools. He said if three entities plus an arts center are using it, he does not know how they could all use it in a logical manner. He said he does not see this as a two purpose facility. Commissioner Rich said, just coming off the Chapel Hill Town Council, she has seen their meeting room used for many purposes, and it was scheduled for every night. She said it would be a good idea to know who meets when. She is not as concerned about the other governmental bodies using it but can see the concern with a performance group. She noted that the Town Council chambers are not used on the weekends, so she thinks that part could work out. She said she would like to hear from Board of County Commissioners about the impact on and the feedback from the neighborhood. Chair Jacobs said the Board of County Commissioners has not met with the neighborhood, but he has talked with the Mayor who has met with the neighbors. Frank Clifton said there is a reason things are moving in the order they are. He said Commissioner Gordon is correct in that they do want to know the uses that are going to be in a facility; however they pay for maintenance, heating, lights on Whitted every day and wanted to see what the facility could be used for. The request for joint usage came from the arts group and the town and the arts group would prefer the Board not be in the building at all, but that didn't make sense from a cost standpoint. He said with the Board of County Commissioners' rotating meeting schedule, they would not be using this facility on a daily basis. He said they did tell the arts group that there will be times when events cannot be scheduled; however in the summer time the facility would be available every night. He said talking with the neighborhood was left to the Town of Hillsborough. He was told that the government uses are all appropriate for the area, as the building has always been for government use. Margaret Hauth, Planning Director from the Town of Hillsborough, said money given to the arts center came from their tourism board not the town or the Town's Board of Commissioners. She said that this fact does not lessen the town support of the cultural center. The concept has not come before the town yet for a vote. She said they have advised the cultural center to talk with neighborhood to find out the issues, since they know the intensity of their usage. She noted that comparison will need to be done regarding old use, with new use. The recreation center is a nighttime peak use and a cultural arts event would most likely be a nighttime peak use, where normal peak use is during the day. She said she did not attend any of these neighborhood meetings but feedback was concern for noise, traffic, how often would facility be used, etc. She said they all need a joint meeting to discuss this in more detail. She said that the County has a role as building owner; the town has a role as regulator; the cultural center has a role as potential user; and the neighborhood has a role. She said that each government user needs to communicate their usage needs and then the remaining time shown to the arts group to determine if it is enough and how much of it they will use. Once this is established, the usage can be presented to the neighborhood. Chair Jacobs said at some point there will need to be an open house to give all an opportunity to speak on the pros and cons of this proposal. He said Hillsborough's regulations also must be accounted for as well as an awareness of the space that each department needs. Commissioner Pelissier said she does not want to close the door to the cultural center or presume what will or won't meet their needs. She said they need to have meeting space there too, and since it is a unique space and it would be a shame to turn it all into office space. She said they do need more information on some of the other buildings, and there is a need for an assessment on the use of the offices. Commissioner Dorosin said it appears there is available space to make use of: Whitted and Link Government Services Center; with the Annex, is there a deadline to get out of it or invest in it. Frank Clifton said there is no deadline but if one of the HVAC systems failed, that would be costly to replace. He said it is a very large building being used by a small group and has an operational cost of$25,000 per year. Commissioner Dorosin asked about the Revere Road facility and its short anticipated life span. Frank Clifton said that building is 60 years old, needs a replacement of roof and it is energy inefficient due to additions made over time. Commissioner Dorosin said whatever happens with a meeting space, the idea is that they will still meet at Southern Human Services Center and northern Orange County. He said initially he liked the idea of co-locating the meeting room with the arts center since governmental buildings are underutilized, especially on weekends. He said the idea of having a viable art/performance space similar to the successful arts space in Carrboro. He said that perhaps the space could serve as an incubator for the arts group, who could find another space elsewhere if their needs increased. He said he feels they can make it work and there is a nitch to be filled. He would like to know the alternative ideas for Link Government Services Center too. Commissioner Price said the cultural community was instrumental in trying to save the Whitted space years ago. She said the arts business plan in their packet is an old plan and they need an updated business plan that accurately portrays how they would use it. She said there has been an investment from the community too. Chair Jacobs said there will be a meeting with the Town of Hillsborough on 2/21 and then a joint meeting with all interested parties could be suggested. He said they are going to have a CIP work session in March and a work session in April, so they need to schedule a meeting with the public soon. He said they need to discuss where this project fits in the que of capital projects with the county. Chair Jacobs said he was part of the last space needs study work group and they decided not to put all of their facilities in one area, because it was too much traffic impact for downtown Hillsborough. Chair Jacobs said the majority of Board of County Commissioners are interested in continuing to look at this as a possibility for joint usage and he said the next step is to see how this fits into the neighborhood and town ordinances. Commissioner Price said they need to get more updated information from the cultural center to make sure they will fit. Commissioner Pelissier said one of the uses would be for work sessions, and would they have noise from other events. Frank Clifton said many of these issues would need to be resolved, such as soundproofing, windows, etc. Frank Clifton said the next item is about Link Government Services Center and the Annex. Jeff Thompson said the space study has been updated several times and the last one was in 2009 and the agricultural functions were included in the Revere Road property. He said the study did not take into consideration the aged building and the $1-1.5 million dollar repair costs. He said the building costs about$50,000 a year to operate. He said the people in the building are operating harmoniously and it meets the space study needs. Architect Ken Redfoot referenced the Annex and showed the floor plans. He said the Board of Elections is presently in the lower level. He said a simple study was done regarding how to accommodate as many offices as possible within this foot print. He showed layout of the offices, conference room, shared reception, and possible kitchen space. He said in the attic space, with appropriate updates, there is usable space to accommodate five people. He said that in this plan there are a total of 26 office areas in the lower level as well as the 5 in the upper level. Ken Redfoot said the total square footage on first floor is about 6900 sq. ft. Jeff Thompson said that as comparison, the existing facility, has 10,926 usable square feet within the current EAC facility. Chair Jacobs asked if there would be changes to any of the cinderblock wall configurations. Ken Redfoot said most of the cinder blocks are non-load bearing and could be demolished. He said the building is very well built and structurally sound. Jeff Thompson said there are about $250,000 in HVAC concerns, including equipment that is below water level in the event of a 100 year flood. He said that if the envelope of the building is breached, this will trigger flood regulations and town historic regulations; however if changes are kept within the envelope of the building, it keeps expenses much lower. Chair Jacobs asked how much parking is associated with building. Frank Clifton said it is for the full use of this building. Chair Jacobs asked if there would actually be sufficient parking, even on court days. Frank Clifton said there are crowded times from on Wednesday morning, but more people are using the parking deck now that it is free. Commissioner Price said what is the reason for suggesting 26 office spaces in the annex. Ken Redfoot said this number came from a combination of the way people might move between the facilities being discussed and determine if there was an adequate amount of offices between Whitted, the Annex and the Link building, to accommodate these moves. Commissioner Price asked why specifically 26 offices were needed in this building and if they know what departments would move there. Frank Clifton said they looked at Revere Road and who might move and how consolidation could be done and how many offices could you have. He said they then work backward to see if this accommodates everyone. The number given was just the maximum number of offices. Commissioner Price asked why re-locate the Board of Elections out of the annex since they are using all the space. She noted that there are few employees but high number of volunteers. Frank Clifton said most of the space is used for storage. He said that they are paying utilities in two facilities and under-using both. He said the attempt was made to come up with alternative uses that made sense. Chair of Board of Elections Jim White said that most of their board is here and they are enraged that they would consider moving the Board of Elections. He said there may be only four employees but there were 12,000 voters in that building in November. He compared this to the idea that the Commissioners' new meeting room is underutilized because there is no office space in it. He said this is not a storage space but a voting space, and early voting site. He said there are multiple uses for it and setting up cubicles there does not seem like a good use for it. He expressed concern about voter parking and space in the plans and the need for analysis of use studies before moving forward. Chair Jacobs said there will be no decisions tonight and the point has been made that more engagement needs to be made with the constituents, including the Board of Elections and other cooperative extensions. Commissioner Gordon said this underscores her point that unless you do the space need studies she cannot make an informed decision. She said these decisions need to be grounded in more data. She said it is helpful to have an analysis of the buildings; but there is no data on departmental space requirements, usage, co-location, or chance for occupants to make their case and these things are needed. Chair Jacobs asked if it is more feasible to move folks from Revere Road to another space better suited to their needs, rather than continuing to put money into that facility. He said maybe the board should see the master plan for Blackwood Farm at New Hope because that group envisioned an agriculture related park with demonstration plots and programming that cannot be done at Revere Road, either. He said that, to Commissioner Gordon's point about determining space needs and co-location questions, that might go far in determining whether to continue investing in Revere Road; or recognize its limited life expectancy and put money aside for a facility to be brought online at a future date when Revere will be for sale or deconstructed. Frank Clifton said that of all the buildings the county owns, Revere Road is the biggest liability. He said it's a great space for its use today but the roof is going to fail. He recommends spending the barest amount possible on it if it is kept. He said the goal is to upgrade all county facilities to a consistent level. He said the other discussion is to show properties that are, through prior decisions of the board, now available and to determine best potential uses for them. He said with Revere Road, they have simply made use of it. Farm Service Agency pays rent in other counties, but the space here has been given to them in Orange County because it was not being used for anything else. He said both interim and long term steps are being looked at. It is a dilemma to consider spending money to replace air conditioning on a building that's Iifespan may only extend 2 more years. He noted that plans were designed for this building two years ago and the decision was made not to move forward. Chair Jacobs clarified that part of that decision was financial rather than design. Commissioner Gordon said she did ask for an addition to the Link Government Services Center and it could be made more high tech with better acoustics. She said does not know what it will cost to add on this building, but she would like to put it on the table. Frank Clifton said they have put geothermal wells, power, and air conditioning at the end of the building and this was seen as a fairly extensive expense that would shut the building down while those things were moved. Commissioner Gordon said there was a lack of long term planning because those wells were just put in and if a plan had been in place regarding a meeting room this wouldn't have been done. She said she is getting more determined that a long term plan needs to be done. Commissioner McKee said he does not believe any engagement was made with services in the agri-building and their constituents. He said some of the wording in the abstract regarding the deconstruction bothered him. He said this is a 50 year old building, the same age as Orange High. He said he is aware of problems with the roof leaking in place but he referenced the abstracts statement that the building has poor appearance and condition. He has not heard of any of these complaints from the users and he is not sure where the statements in the packet are coming from. He said the building is well kept and maintained. He is concerned about moving the agencies in this facility is because all the extensions in this building use a common federal server and must be in the same facility to use this. He said they also interact on a daily basis with each other and the idea of cramming those agencies, not even including the Department of Environment, Agriculture, Parks and Recreation (DEAPR). He said he is bothered by the idea of cramming them into cubicles because planning was just moved out of that building to get rid of cubicles. He said there has been talk for 25 years of building an agriculture building and it is no closer to being done. He said the current space is not adequate and now the proposal would put them in an even smaller space. He said that FSA will not allow employees to be in a building in a flood plain, thus a move would break the organizations up that need to stay together. He said that the number of farmers is higher in Orange and he is very concerned about losing this agency. He said that the cost and all of the things he has mentioned are a major concern to the agriculture community. He said he does not feel the building is about to fall down and the agriculture community has been blindsided by this because they were not included in the planning upfront. Commissioner Price said she would support keeping these agencies together. Chair Jacobs summarized the following points: - Joint neighborhood meeting with town of Hillsborough regarding Whitted is needed - Need an updated cultural center business plan - Want more formalized conversation with the Board of Elections - Need to engage users of agriculture and environment building Chair Jacobs said regarding the last point, looking at the life expectancy of the building, is there a window where another facility could be built to meet the same needs before investing so much money that it is not cost effective to stay there. He questioned whether there is a window to meet these needs of agri building and noted that it would be good to see Adopted plan for Blackwood property which included possible accommodations of the facility. Chair Jacobs said there is a need for analysis of overarching space needs. He noted movements of many departments with varying levels of constituents, and some in buildings that aren't optimal. He said they do need more outreach and conceptualization to address concerns raised. He said that part of the push for new space is to accommodate growth in the different departments. He questioned the feasibility of any decisions being made this fiscal year. Commissioner Gordon said they need a description of departmental space requirements as well as the type of facilities needed to accommodate that. She referenced the 2012 Facilities Inventory and noted the need to add the Solid Waste Administration building. Frank Clifton said that the intention was to wait until the board had given its input before doing the community outreach. He said that, with regard to CIP, at this point it would simply be matter of setting aside money for design work. Commissioner McKee said the main point with his previous comment is that anything done by the board gets out into the public very quickly and rumors start. He said there is a need to involve the affected agencies and noted that there are several of those people in attendance at this meeting. Chair Jacobs said the request was to provide feedback to staff, and this has been done. He said that there was no plan to move forward without input, only to discuss options. He said that there will be plans to engage constituents in the future. Commissioner Gordon asked that her memo be inserted in the minutes 3. Discussion on Evaluation Process for Three Staff Members Appointed by the Board Chair Jacobs said this item is related to the Board's business itself. He said they have talked for years about developing a process and an instrument for reviewing the staff they appoint (clerk, attorney and manager). He said in the past an instrument was developed with a former city manager who worked at the School of Government and two Commissioners; but the manager's predecessor did not want to use it and it went by the wayside. He also noted that Commissioner Gordon had developed a process but no instrument. He referred to the draft evaluation process on page 3. Chair Jacobs said the Commissioners discussed at a closed session in 2011 the possibility of clustering the reviews of the three staff members and two ( Clerk and Attorney) were put on the same night in March. He said that the manager would fit in the spring category. He said that if there will be a review of two of the employees on March 26, and a work plan is required for review then the time frame is too short to review of the work plan and for adoption of a review instrument. Commissioner Gordon referred to page 3 and said that this outlines a potential process for the Board to evaluate the three positions. She said the Board would need to approve this process and develop an instrument as well as the requirement of a work plan. She said that if they approve of this process, three instruments would need to be developed and a decision made about how to set the process in motion. She said that, even with the short time frame she feels that a work plan could still be requested and some kind of formal evaluation done. She said that this plan could be adopted, instruments developed and the process used. John Roberts said he prepared an evaluation document similar to other local government evaluation documents and he has provided this every year and gotten decent feedback. Donna Baker said that she has used the SOG instrument for many years, and also used one similar to the County Attorney's for the past two years. Commissioner Price asked if each commissioner gets one of these forms individually and sends it back in and Chair Jacobs, said that each one has been different the last couple of years. Commissioner Price asked, for example, in the case of John (Roberts), they would get a form and each do it individually at home and send it in. Donna Baker said that it has not been done this way in the past but that this appears to be the way the proposed process leans toward. Commissioner Gordon said that this process is a process where someone compiles the information, the Clerk in two cases and the Chair in the case of the Clerk. In this way the information is not attributed to any one commissioner and the instruments are under lock and key. She said she is uncomfortable with having each employee developing his or her own instrument and then returning it back to the employee with all the signatures. She feels it is better if someone compiles it then the output is done after the board has discussed it. Commissioner Rich said that while on the Chapel Hill Town Council, their evaluation process for the manager was goal driven, what you have accomplished, what hasn't been accomplished, why and where to go from here. She gave examples of recent reviews of the manager and attorney. In the case of the manager, a meeting was held with the manager, led by an outside person who compiled the information; this was followed by individual meetings and a final group meeting with the manager. Donna Baker asked about the selection of the outside person compiling the information and Commissioner Rich said this person was chosen by the Mayor and was the keeper of the information, which is important since she outside of the situation and is not judging, only gathering. Donna Baker spoke about a course developed by someone from the School of Government that teaches elected officials how to evaluate appointed employees. Donna Baker has spoken to the SOG about presenting to the Board regarding development of an evaluation process but has not been given direction yet by the Board. Commissioner Dorosin said, he would like to see, for the manager, some input from the staff, because the Board has a limited view. He agreed with a goal oriented evaluation but disagreed with having an outside person to collect the information. He suggested that a board member or a chair could perform this task and said that he is wary of making this more process heavy. He does think a tool is needed and a sub-committee could be charged with this task. He also questioned what happens to those evaluations. Donna Baker said they are part of a closed session that is in a secure file case unless opened up per the county attorney. Commissioner Dorosin asked if they are given to the people. Frank Clifton said that you get a summary and he noted that the laws have changed. Commissioner Dorosin said he believes that every employee should be given a copy of the actual evaluation. Commissioner Pelissier said when there has been an instrument, ratings, summary and the comments have been given to the employee. Commissioner Price asked if Commissioner Gordon had created an instrument. Commissioner Gordon said they presented this process a while ago and had an idea for an instrument but wanted to have this approved before developing an instrument. Commissioner Rich said the reason why the facilitator worked well is that, in Chapel Hill. some council members did not feel comfortable talking among themselves and they talked with the facilitator separately. There was more freedom to speak without reservation. Commissioner McKee said the reason for this discussion is because they don't have a process or an instrument and this needs to be a more structured and uniform process. He expressed his discomfort at the way things have been done and his desire that it be more structured. Frank Clifton said there is a lot that goes into an evaluation process and goals are good but there are other priorities that should be taken into consideration with performance measures outside of goals. He noted that the priorities of the Board constantly shift and change. He said he did find instruments when he first came here but there was no consensus on them. He said that a manager generally gets evaluated, whether right or wrong, on the most recent task or last few months. He does not believe a perfect instrument will be found. He noted that the three years he's been here, there has never been a question of salary and benefits of a comparison of competitive organizations. This does not affect him, but it will be important when a new manager is hired. He noted that with regard to goals, where the money is, is also where the focus and goals are. He said that even with an instrument, fluidity is necessary. He agrees that an outside person is necessary to help with the process. Chair Jacobs said he does not believe people have read page three as though ready to act on it. He said people should read it and then come back to a meeting and adopt it as a consent item or make suggestions for changes before taking the positive step of moving toward a process. Commissioner Gordon recommended that they adopt this. Commissioner Price asked if there was an evaluation instrument and Commissioner Gordon said no, but that a sub-committee or someone else could work on that aspect. Commissioner Rich asked if this plan had worked in governmental situations and Commissioner Gordon said yes, at Triangle Transit. Chair Jacobs summarized the following points of consensus: -Agreement on use of an instrument - Give people summaries of their evaluation - Bring in an outside facilitator (Details of how to select this- to be determined) Chair Jacobs noted that the attorney and clerk evaluations are scheduled for March 26. He suggested a blank instrument be obtained from the attorney and clerk and see if this is satisfactory, move forward with those two evaluations, working toward a different instrument for next year. He said that he feels the manager's evaluation should be done separately at a later time. Chair Jacobs asked if the Board was comfortable bringing page 3 and 4 to a consent agenda. He asked for volunteers to work with the Clerk to look at evaluation instruments. Commissioner Rich said she would work with the Clerk. Donna Baker asked if the desire was to have a sub-committee. Commissioner Price said she would like to see some uniformity and commonality in the forms. She said she doesn't mind working with the Clerk and Commissioner Rich. Commissioner Rich said she feels it is important to understand the competitive salaries in the community. She said that looking forward when there is need to hire a new manager, it will be necessary to be competitive. Chair Jacobs summarized that there are two people on the sub-committee, something to go on the agenda and the attorney will be asked to give a blank copy of the evaluation document. He asked Donna Baker to also provide a blank copy of her evaluation and the sub- committee will evaluate these and present suggestions. This will need to be done very quickly. Commissioner McKee said that if the draft is to be put on a consent agenda, could it be put on the agenda for the meeting on the 19tH Commissioner Rich said she has an objection to this when the sub-committee has not yet evaluated the instruments. Chair Jacobs said that another discussion of this topic will have to be scheduled and he deferred to the subcommittee and noted that they will review the blank documents. 4. Closed Session A motion was made by Commissioner Price seconded by Commissioner McKee to go into closed session at 10:11 PM for the purpose of: "Pursuant to G.S. § 143-318.11(a)(3) "to consult with an attorney retained by the Board in order to preserve the attorney-client privilege between the attorney and the Board." VOTE: UNANIMOUS RECONVENE INTO OPEN SESSION A motion was made by Commissioner Gordon seconded by Commissioner Rich to reconvene into open session at 11:05pm. VOTE: UNANIMOUS ADJOURNMENT A motion was made by Commissioner McKee seconded by Commissioner Rich to adjourn the meeting at 11:05pm. VOTE: UNANIMOUS Barry Jacobs, Chair Donna S. Baker, CIVIC Clerk to the Board'n