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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 12-06-2012 APPROVED 2/5/2013 MINUTES ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL HILLSBOROUGH BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN December 6, 2012 ASSEMBLY OF GOVERNMENTS The Orange County Board of Commissioners met with the Towns of Chapel Hill, Carrboro and Hillsborough for an Assembly of Governments meeting on Thursday, December 6, 2012 at 7:00 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill. N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Barry Jacobs and Commissioners Mark Dorosin, Alice M. Gordon, Earl McKee, Bernadette Pelissier, Renee Price, and Penny Rich. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: Staff Attorney Jennifer Galassi COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Frank Clifton, Clerk to the Board, Assistant County Manager Michael Talbert, and Clerk to the Board Donna Baker (All other staff inembers will be identified appropriately below) CHAPEL HILL TOWN COUNCIL MEMBERS/STAFF PRESENT: Mayor Mark Kleinschmidt, Ed Harrison, Jim Ward, Lee Storrow, Gene Pease, and Town Manager Roger Stancil CHAPEL HILLTOWN COUNCIL MEMBERS ABSENT: Matt Czajkowski, Donna Bell, and Lauren Easthom CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEMBERS PRESENT/STAFF: Mayor Mark Chilton and Aldermen Randee Haven-O'Donnell, Lydia Lavelle, Michelle Johnson, Jacquelyn Gist, Sammy Slade, and Town Manager David Andrews. CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEMBERS ABSENT: Dan Coleman TOWN OF HILLSBOROUGH COMMISSIONERS/STAFF: Mayor Tom Stevens and Town Commissioners Eric Hallman, Frances Dancy, Brian Lowen, and Town Manager Eric Peterson TOWN OF HILLSBOROUGH COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Evelyn Lloyd and Michael Gering Call to Order/Introductions/Opening Comments Mayor Stevens and Mayor Kleinschmidt congratulated all new County Commissioners. Introductions were made. � Solid Waste Updates Michael Talbert said that the purpose of this update is to give the jurisdictions a chance to update everyone on their solid waste progress. The landfill will be closing June 30, 2013 and everyone is making plans to deal with this. • Town of Carrboro Mayor Chilton said that Carrboro enthusiastically wants to collaborate with Orange County in waste reduction. He said that they probably will be taking solid waste to one of the two transfer stations in Durham County. There are some modest savings in using the private transfer station on the south side of Durham. He said that, based on the discussions last Tuesday, the Board of Aldermen looks forward to having the community move forward with having roll-out recycling bins. He said that he is also excited about opportunities of organic waste and pay-as-you-throw, which would discourage the disposal of organic waste. • Town of Chapel Hill Mayor Kleinschmidt said that Chapel Hill has retained a consultant and received a report from them on a review of the solid waste options. The report has been shared with all parties. Chapel Hill is looking at moving waste to a transfer station in Durham. He said that Chapel Hill wants to renew its contract with recycling with Orange County. Chapel Hill Town Manager Roger Stancil said that Chapel Hill will be using a Waste Industries transfer station beginning in April. He said that they would like to enter into a new interlocal agreement. Council Member Pease arrived at 7:13PM. Council Member Ward said that he wanted to speak strongly that Chapel Hill is eager to give direction to Orange County so that Chapel Hill can proceed with an RFP for the purchase of the recycling carts to get this program up and running as soon as possible. He said that he hoped that they can do a new interlocal agreement that addresses this issue. Commissioner Jacobs made reference to page 4 of the abstract and said that Orange County was to purchase these last year. Commissioner Rich said that she does not want to forget about newer technology and they need to focus on the future and get ahead of the curve. She would like to consider different ways to handle their waste. She said that perhaps when the Solid Waste Advisory Board (SWAB) comes back to life that they could address this new technology. Chair Jacobs said that the SWAB did some investigation and decided that newer technology was beyond the capabilities without more resources. When the County decided not to site a transfer station 4 years ago, it has been the position to confirm the commitment to finding alternate technologies and creating more regional partnerships. Alderman Slade said that he would encourage the County to pursue a zero waste goal as a priority. Council Member Ward asked if the County feels comfortable with moving forward with the purchase of the recycling carts. Chair Jacobs said that hopefully by the end of this conversation, the County will be ready. • Town of Hillsborough Mayor Stevens called upon Hillsborough Town Manager Eric Peterson. Eric Peterson said that the Durham County transfer station is just as close to Eubanks Road so Hillsborough will partner with Orange County to take their waste to Durham County. He said that, from a staff perspective, they are interested in participating in a recycling program. • Orange County (including update on the Solid Waste Advisory Board (SWAB) Michael Talbert said that the County is making progress. The landfill is closing in June. The management of the landfill was transferred to Orange County in 1999. This interlocal agreement created the SWAB. The SWAB continues to be active and is an important function of solid waste. Originally the SWAB had eight members with two from each jurisdiction, and this can be considered as things move forward. With the closing of the landfill in June, the interlocal agreement terminates and so does the SWAB. Orange County will continue to do recycling, construction and demolition, yard waste, storm debris management, and countywide and statewide planning and reporting will still be in place. The five convenience centers will continue to stay in place. The County is considering an agreement with the City of Durham for solid waste at$42.50 a ton. This could be a five-year agreement. Attachment A summarizes this. The County generates about 200 tons per day of solid waste. If all of this went to the City of Durham, it would make up less than 20% of their total capacity. If there is an agreement or solution at some point, Durham would make an excellent partner for waste to energy or other new technologies. This would give a five-year window to continue. The Board of County Commissioners will consider this on December 11 th. Orange County will continue the recycling effort. In July, the County went to single-stream recycling. The convenience center at Walnut Grove is being remodeled. The plan is to remodel all five of the convenience centers. Walnut Grove should be complete in the next 3-4 weeks. There will also be district centers, which will operate longer hours and will take more recycling components. The neighborhood centers are smaller and take fewer items. Orange County is ready to move forward with a new interlocal agreement and staffs are already working on this. A component of the interlocal agreement could be the creation of the new SWAB along with the charge. Aldermen Michelle Johnson and Jacqueline Gist arrived at 7:23PM. Chair Jacobs asked Solid Waste Director Gayle Wilson to update them on the waste reduction goal. Solid Waste Director Gayle Wilson said that since the state required reporting and for local governments to set goals, Orange County has steadily increased its per capita waste reduction and the goal of 61% when it was set was the highest in the state. He said that Orange County is still moving forward and is at a 56% waste reduction rate. He said that one of the contributing factors is collaboration with partners. Mayor Chilton said that since one of the state representatives from Orange County is retiring soon, Joe Hackney, who wrote the bill for the first state-mandated waste reduction bill. He wanted to publicly recognize Joe Hackney. He said that following upon Joe Hackney's leadership, Orange County has been at the forefront statewide and a role model as far as adopting the aggressive waste reduction goals that Gayle Wilson mentioned. He thanked all of the staff that works for solid waste management in Orange County for making these pioneering ideas of the elected officials. He said that the staff is demonstrating a model for our state and our country. Mayor Chilton asked for clarification of the five convenience centers. Gayle Wilson said that the concept is to modernize all five existing centers, but dedicate two of these to be full-service with longer hours and a full array of services. Chair Jacobs said that Orange County was one of the first counties to do electronics recycling and an ordinance for construction and demolition waste, and that is because of the partnership with the municipalities. He said that one of the offerings at these larger sites is food waste recycling. Commissioner Jacobs made reference to reconstituting the SWAB and said that he would like the University to have an option to be at the table. Mayor Kleinschmidt said that UNC is doing its own solid waste disposal. Mayor Chilton said that it is important for UNC to at least be a part of this discussion. Frank Clifton said that there have been ongoing discussions. The attorneys have been talking about the new agreement that will clarify the recycling roles and the roles of the County, as well as the agreement with Durham and Orange County. He said that any of the towns can join the discussion. Mayor Kleinschmidt said that the interlocal agreement needs to describe the mission and short-term goals of each entity. Chair Jacobs said that as part of a new SWAB, he would like to see a more aggressive effort of pursuing alternative technologies for solid waste disposal. � Review of the Draft Interim Recommendations from the Historic Roqers Road Neiqhborhood Task Force Commissioner Jacobs made reference to the yellow sheet, which was for this item. Michael Talbert said that the Historic Rogers Road Neighborhood Task Force last met on November 14th. This was supposed to be the last meeting and this was supposed to be the final report. He reviewed the charge of the task force: - Investigate and make recommendations to the Board of County Commissioners, the Chapel Hill Town Council, and the Carrboro Board of Aldermen for neighborhood improvements, including funding sources, financial impact to the County and the Towns for the following: o Sewer Service to the Historic Rogers Road Neighborhood as defined by the previously approved public water connections in the area o A Neighborhood Community Center - The Task Force is also directed to: o Submit an Interim Report back to the County and the Towns by the end of August 2012; and o Submit a Final Report to the Assembly of Governments on December 6, 2012. Attachment B includes the recommendations in draft form because the Task Force has not seen them or approved them yet. There are five primary recommendations: 1. That the costs of both a New Community Center and Sewer Improvements be shared by the local governments, at the same costs sharing percentages as outlined in the 1972 Landfill Agreement, 43% for Orange County, 43% for the Town of Chapel Hill and 14% for the Town of Carrboro. 2. That the Managers and Attorneys originate a Memorandum of Understanding between Habitat, Orange County, the Town of Carrboro, and the Town of Chapel Hill for the construction of a new Rogers Road Community Center. The budget will not exceed $700,000 and the project will be bid in compliance with North Carolina public bidding requirements. Orange County will finance the project with reimbursement from the Towns as outlined in (1) above. 3. That the governing boards continue to appropriate funds, as previously budgeted to reimburse the Solid Waste fund for the purchase of the Greene Tract, for both a New Community Center and Sewer Improvements. Funds budgeted in Fiscal Year 2012/2013 for the Greene Tract are as follows; $90,549 for Orange County, $90,549 for the Town of Chapel Hill and $29,524 for the Town of Carrboro. The governing boards are also encouraged to locate other funding sources for a New Community Center and Sewer Improvements. 4. That the Hogan-Rogers House no longer be considered as an option for a Neighborhood Community Center. The St. Paul's AME Church is working with the Chapel Hill Preservation Society to save the structure. 5. That the Task Force continue to meet to address the Charge of the Task Force, for an additional six months with the original composition of the Task Force. The composition of the Task Force originally included two members appointed by each Town (Chapel Hill and Carrboro); two members appointed from the County; and two members appointed from Rogers Eubanks Neighborhood Association (RENA). There are several recommendations that have not been finalized and that is why the Task Force wants to continue to meet. The first is the community center. There needs to be a memorandum of understanding of how the center is going to operate, who will pay for it, who will construct it, who will occupy it, and what type of interlocal agreement or memorandum of understanding would be between the Towns, Habitat and the Rogers Road Neighborhood Association for the operation and the program/activities to be provided. The second item is the sewer district. The managers suggested that there be a Rogers Road County Sewer District. There are a lot of details to be worked out with that. The recommendation is that the managers continue to work on this issue and participate with the Towns and OWASA to study this idea. The managers could work with the attorneys to create criteria that would enable homeowners that have lived in the Historic Rogers Road Neighborhood before 1972 to connect from the sewer system free of charge and recommend a sliding scale fee structure for homeowners that moved to the neighborhood between 1972 and 2012. Attachments D and E have attorney opinions. There are many legal issues yet to be worked out over multi-jurisdictional lines. Chair of the Task Force Pam Hemminger said that the task force was determined to finish its work as soon as possible. She hopes that the County will approve starting the drafting of the Memorandum of Understanding between the County, the Towns, and Habitat. There are lots of different options still to be considered and lots of information still to be pulled together. This is why the task force wants to continue to meet. Aldermen Gist said that there have been several memos from their attorney in the past couple of weeks. She asked if he would be willing to share about the latest memo. Town of Carrboro Attorney Mike Brough said that, with respect to the community center, the issues that he raised had to do with the role of Habitat. He said that there would have to be a bidding process and it was not clear to him how there would be a bidding process. Habitat is not going to be constructing the center and it is his understanding that the County would continue to own the center. He said that there are a lot of details that remain unclear to him. The other issue that he expressed to the Carrboro Board of Aldermen is the ongoing operation and maintenance of the center. He understands that the intent of the County is that whatever funds are distributed are not considered to be ongoing. He suggested that some consideration be given to this. His recommendation is that the Board considers whether the planning should be directed solely to the sewer project as opposed to the community center. If all three bodies are operating the community center there are issues about the programs, etc. The memo is shown below: Memorandum to: Carrboro Mayor and Board of Aldermen From: Mike Brough Subject: Rogers Road Proposals Date: November 7, 2012 "County Attorney John Roberts, Chapel Hill Attorney Ralph Karpinos, and I met November 6th to discuss the managers' October 16, 2012 recommendations for constructing a Community Center to service the Rogers road area and to extend sewer lines into this area. We also discussed Mark Dorosin's October 23, 2012 letter recommending that, not only should sewer lines be extended into this area, but that homes should be connected to the sewer lines at public expense. We agreed on the conclusions set forth below in paragraphs 1-5. The thoughts set forth in paragraph 6 did not occur to me until after our meeting, and therefore have not been endorsed by the other attorneys: 1. Statutory authority exists for the towns and the county to cooperate in operating funding a community center located in the Rogers Road area, and there are a number of ways in which this could be accomplished. However, as we understand it, the current proposal is that the county and/or the towns would pay Habitat$500,000 to construct the facility, on land provided by habitat, and then Habitat would lease the center to RENA, who would operate it, presumably in accordance with RENA Neighborhood Center Business Plan (Attachment B to the Agenda Item). The attorneys do not believe it is legally permissible for the county or the towns to expend public funds to fund the construction of a building on land the county does not own, under circumstances where the building would then be leased to a private organization that would use the facility to run programs of its choosing. The county could, of course, construct a community center on land it owned or leased, but it would have to put the project out for bids in accordance with applicable statutes. The operation of a community center would require annual appropriations. The county could provide staffing through its own employees or it could contract with an organization such as RENA to run programs, but these would have to be open to the general public. In short, there are many options for legally accomplishing the objective of providing a community center that would benefit the residents of Rogers Road, but the current proposal is not one of them. 2. Orange County, Carrboro, and Chapel Hill, as owners of the Greene Tract, and the County, as owner of other property used for solid waste disposal, could petition Chapel Hill to annex any properties owned by these governmental entities within the portion of the Rogers Road area that is located in Chapel Hill's ETJ of Joint Planning Area, and Chapel Hill could do so (subject to the possible exception that, if the area to be annexed was not contiguous to the existing town limits, than no lots within a subdivision could be annexed unless the entire subdivision was annexed). However, this would enable Chapel Hill to extend sewer lines only to those areas so annexed. 3. The $900,000 that Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and Orange County agreed to pay to the Landfill Fund for the 100+ acres of the Greene Tract that were not conveyed to Orange County cannot be used to pay for either the construction of a community center or the extension of sewer lines to the Rogers Road area. The Greene Tract was acquired using landfill funds, and the $900,000 is being paid back to this enterprise fund. Such funds can only be expended to cover the costs associated with the operation and maintenance of the landfill. 4. Proceeds from the sale of the 100+ acre portion of the Greene Tract now owned jointly by Orange County, CB, and CH can be used in the same manner as other unrestricted general funds. Thus, Carrboro could use these funds to extend sewer lines to unserved areas within Carrboro's corporate limits. 5. The towns and the county could appropriate funds to subsidize the cost of actually connecting homes to a sewer line, once that line has been constructed. In order to be able to point to specific statutory authority to provide such subsidies, it would be preferable to limit the availability of such subsidies to low and moderate income property owners. The attorneys do not recommend that the contractor engaged by the county and/or the towns to extend the lines be directed to construct lines connecting individuals' properties to the public lines because this work involves actually getting into the plumbing systems within individuals homes and poses significant risks of unexpected complications and claims of damages. 6. The managers propose that a "County Sewer District" be created for the Rogers Road area as well as adjoining areas that do not have sewer, and that the district use the special assessment process to recoup some of the costs of extending sewer service to these areas. Presumably, the proposal is referring to a County Water and Sewer District created pursuant to Article 6 of G. S. Chapter 162A. Such a district would be a legally separate municipal corporation, but the governing body of the district would be the Orange County Board of Commissioners. Such a district could issue its own bonds to raise the capital to cover the cost of extending the lines. Assessments could be based on various criteria listed in G.S. 153A-186 including "the area of land served...at an equal rate per unit of area," which would mean that properties with greater development or redevelopment potential would pay more than small properties, but the statute does not provide a way to exempt from the assessments specific properties based on criteria not listed in the statute. Thus, if the objective is to extend sewer lines at little or no cost to the longstanding owners of properties in the Rogers Road area, but to recapture some of the cost of extending the lines when properties in this area are developed or redeveloped, the special assessment process appears to be a useful tool. An alternative might be to establish the District and have the District issue its bonds to raise the cost of extending the lines. Carrboro could contract with the District to pay for the cost of extending the lines to serve properties that are within the town. The District would contract with OWASA to operate and maintain the lines and to bill the customers in the same manner as other OWASA customers. (An amendment to the WSMPBA would probably be needed). Then the District could establish a fee— call it a service line extension fee —that would be designed to recoup some of the costs incurred by the District in extending the lines. (OWASA has an "availability fee" that is designed to recoup the cost of the treatment plant and major outfalls, but this fee does not cover the service lines because those are typically installed at the developer's expense). This fee would be paid at the same time as OWASA's availability fee—when a connection is made. The District's policy could provide that the service line extension fee would be waived for the first connection made to any property existing as of a specified date." Aldermen Slade said that the proposal does not mean that they would not be providing their portion of the costs for the community center and the sewer. He said that$900,000 represents 14% of those two costs aggregated. It is more of a way to facilitate technically the management of the two projects. Aldermen Gist said that she appreciated the memo today because it pointed out potential "alligators" that could damage the whole project and the whole effort. She thinks that these are very serious, pragmatic, legal issues that have to be dealt with. She wants to invite the task force to address these issues. Commissioner Rich suggested that the task force hand this over to the managers, attorneys, and planning departments. She thinks that the issues coming up from the attorney are things that managers and attorneys have to make everyone aware of. She thinks that the task force has met the charge and has identified the monies. She also thinks that they have identified their commitment to sewer and the community center. She does not want to keep discussing this without making sure that all of the managers have discussed this. She does not want to hold any of this back. Mayor Chilton said that Carrboro elected officials are in an unusual position in that a huge portion of the sewer component and the costs of serving the entire area happens to fall within the town limits of Carrboro. However, the number of homeowners and renters to be served who live in the Carrboro town limits is very small. He said that Carrboro is very happy to participate to the tune of$900,000. He likes what the attorney suggested regarding focusing on the sewer lines. Commissioner McKee thanked the members of the task force. He said that he does not see anything that cannot be worked out. He thinks that the sewer issue and the community center issue be disengaged. He said that one should not depend on the other, nor should any recommendation depend on another recommendation for the community center to move forward. He will continue to push that the community center be moved forward one way or the other. He said that he is determined that the County will build this center. Commissioner Jacobs asked Pam Hemminger to answer the question about Habitat's participation. Pam Hemminger said that Habitat owns the property where the community center is supposed to be located and is dedicating property. There had to be a special use permit process for this to happen. This is one of the reasons that Habitat is involved. Habitat does not want to assume responsibility for long-term care and maintenance of the building. Habitat did offer to be the construction engineer/contractor for this building. This will be a lot less cost. She knows that there are legal issues to be worked out and these can be worked out. Chapel Hill Town Councilmember Ward voiced support for continuation of the task force. He asked that the charge be revised and updated to address the upcoming questions related to the remaining issues. He said that the task force is really good at having representatives of all elected bodies coming to meetings so that as the staff work through the issues, there is a venue where there can be updates, etc. Without the task force in place, it is cumbersome to get the approval information to the three elected boards. Chair Pelissier said that she is struggling with the extension of the task force, especially when it comes to the community center. She does not want to hold things up. She would like to hear from staff about whether these things can be worked out. Commissioner Jacobs said that the County Commissioners have made no explicit vote on whether or not to continue the task force. The Board implicitly agreed with its two representatives that it was worth continuing, but the Board no longer has any representatives on the task force (Pam Hemminger and Valerie Foushee are no longer on the Board). It is on the January 24th agenda for discussion on whether or not to appoint two new people or whether or not the task force has finished its work. Commissioner porosin made reference to the sewer issues. He said that these are fundamental policy issues that should be resolved and not by staff. He said that he remains committed to the idea that every resident in the Rogers Road Historic Neighborhood gets connected to the water and sewer at no cost. He said that he would like to decide now or soon that the boards are committed to funding the infrastructure mains and the connections from the mains to the meters at the very least at no cost to existing residents. He is concerned about the language about special assessments, loans, and sliding scales. He said that if they go down any of these paths, then it is a betrayal of the commitment made to this community. Commissioner Price said that she agreed with Commissioner porosin and she is committed to seeing the community center. She thinks that the task force needs to continue to meet. She thinks that the legal issues can be worked out. She agreed with separating the two issues so that the community center can be built as soon as possible. Alderman Johnson said the task force voted at their last meeting to continue the task force for six months. She said that one of the recommendations was for managers to meet and report back to them and they are waiting on that. She said that there are two community members on the task force, and if the task force no longer meets, then the community members are left out of the conversation. Council Member Pease said that they need to disentangle the two issues and say that the task force has finished phase I, whatever that is, and let the attorneys and managers work out the legal issues for the community center. He said that his fear of continuing the task force with its current process is that it is going to be somewhat of a new makeup. He would be afraid that it might be slowed down or there may be other agendas with new members joining it. He suggested getting to the end of the conversation on the community center and then starting a phase 2 with new members and tackling the sewer issues. Council Member Storrow said that none of these ideas are in opposition to each other. He said that it seems like if the task force is stopped, the community center would probably still get built. Regardless of the structure, he thinks that the community center is finished. There are more structural questions than philosophical. He said that there should be some mechanism to continue a conversation. He said that if the task force is totally dismantled then some of the sewer questions may not be answered. Council Member Ward said that if Council Member Pease agreed with Commissioner Rich then now he does also. He said that this task force has been very effective and the membership will be changed, and it is appropriate to rehash. He said that the Board of County Commissioners is in control of setting the agenda for the task force. He said that the community center is now checked off the list and is now in the hands of staff. He feels confident to take the center off the list and then let the task force tackle these other issues and keep the community members on it, whichever form it may take. Alderman Slade said that the task force should be kept intact. He said that the community center is a done deal. He said that there is a lot of work to be done with the sewer. He strongly supports continuing with this effective task force. Commissioner Rich said that at the beginning of the task force for the first two months, they were read the charge. She thinks that the task force has fulfilled the charge and if the task force is asked to continue, the charge must be changed. Commissioner McKee said that the task force should continue with the current members. There are three members whose situations have changed, but the community has not changed. He said that the charge of the task force was not to make sure that any governmental entity came out on the better end of the deal. The charge was to ensure that the community came out on the better end. The members of the task force as it is currently constructed have spent almost a year working on this. He suggested leaving this task force constructed as it is with the current members as they are unless they have other obligations to prevent them from being able to attend. Alderman Gist said that she supported continuing with the task force because it gives the staff and elected bodies someone to talk to about the issues. She would like the task force to continue to address the community center issue and the continuing costs of operating the center and other unknowns. Mayor Chilton said that he agreed with Aldermen Gist. He said that this task force was created by the Board of County Commissioners and the reality is that the County Commissioners need to decide how it moves forward. Chair Jacobs said that it has been helpful to hear everything. He said that he has brought up the issue of gentrification several times, but it was not discussed in detail and was not part of the charge of the task force. If the task force goes forward, the charge should be revised. � Greene Tract Historical Information and Options Michael Talbert said that the Greene Tract was purchased in 1984 and it was 164 acres. As it transitioned from Chapel Hill to Orange County, the interlocal agreement gave 60 acres to remain as an asset of solid waste and 104 acres would be conveyed to Orange County, the Town of Chapel Hill, and the Town of Carrboro, based on the percentages of 43%, 43%, and 14%. There was a condition that the entities will pay back the solid waste fund so that there would be adequate funds for the future for landfill closure costs. All of this transpired between 2001-2008. In 2001, there was a Greene Tract work group that came back with recommendations. Over the years there have been many potential discussions of uses of the Greene Tract and there have been no decisions made. One would be open space to be protected by conservation easement. Another option is affordable housing, with acreage to be placed in a land trust. Another option is for a future elementary school site for CHCCS. There are two attachments with detail of the history of the property. After everything has been repaid, there will be a little over$1 million that has been repaid back to the Solid Waste Fund. Mayor Chilton asked how much land the CHCCS needs for a school site here. Michael Talbert said that eight years ago the CHCCS discussed needing 10-12 acres. Mayor Chilton asked about the acreage for affordable housing. Michael Talbert said that it was about 18 acres. Commissioner Gordon said that OCS and CHCCS projections are in the packets. For CHCCS, the needs projected over the next 10 years are for an elementary school in 2012-13, a middle school in 2017-18, and a high school in 2020-21. She said that there are not a lot of school sites identified. CHCCS staff inember Bill Mullin, Executive Director of School Facilities, said that there is also another elementary school needed in 2017. Alderman Gist said that just because there is land does not mean that it has to be used. There will be future generations that might need it. Chair Jacobs pointed out the possible school construction schedules on page 2. He said that he has never heard any particular opposition to the school site at the Greene Tract. He said that a lot of decisions were not closed and it would be good to see if everyone is still generally on the same page. Mayor Kleinschmidt said that Chapel Hill, after having invited Carrboro and Orange County to the table, did go through a three-year small area planning process with the Rogers Road neighborhood, including the Greene Tract. He said that there is a plan that is adopted in the Chapel Hill comprehensive plan, but it is not in this document. He suggested that everyone look at the Chapel Hill Comprehensive Plan and Small Area Plan for Rogers Road. He said that people that live next to the Greene Tract have already talked about what they would like to see and Chapel Hill adopted it. Commissioner Gordon said that she wanted to emphasize that there are not very many school sites. In terms of the Chapel Hill Comprehensive Plan, she would like to look it over in more detail. She also agreed with Alderman Gist in that it would be good to have some preserved land. Mayor Chilton said that one of the practical issues years ago is that the road access to this property is poor. He said that it sounds really great to say that all these things will be built here, but the reality is that there would be some significant investment with infrastructure to even make it possible to develop. Mayor Kleinschmidt said that they should have the Chapel Hill SAP in front of them while they are discussing this. Michael Talbert said that page 26 of the abstract has a map of the Rogers Road existing and proposed sewer. Alderman Gist said that everyone has spent lots of time on committees wondering what would happen to their work. She apologized to everyone that worked on the small area plan. She hopes that this will be fixed. Council Member Harrison said that he has done a lot of work on small area plans in the past. He said that there was a huge investment of time and expertise from elected officials in this small area plan. Alderman Lavelle said that this is a good example of the importance of institutional history. Chair Jacobs said that everyone should incorporate the SAP into their thinking of the Greene Tract, and they can have this discussion in their individual joint meetings with the towns. He said that most of the work has been done. Mayor Chilton said that Carrboro is only a 14% stakeholder from a real estate point of view and it is in Chapel Hill's planning jurisdiction. He said that he is optimistic that the conversations in March between Orange County and Chapel Hill will be fruitful. He said that the call from 10 years ago when this was last under discussion was that the affordable housing component of all of this was of particular concern of the Board of Aldermen. He does not see why this would be different today than it was then. He said that the Board of Aldermen remains keenly interested in this. � County Update on the Capital Investment Needs for Schools and School Sites Based on the School Districts Student Enrollment Proiections and Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance Chair Jacobs said that Superintendent Rhodes from OCS was in attendance. Paul Laughton from Finance and Administrative Services said that Clarence Grier is under the weather tonight, so he was filling in. He said that the County has several capital needs— Emergency Services, expansion of Southern Human Services Center, construction of new jail, and future park development. This item is focused on school capital needs for both systems based on student enrollment projections and the Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance (SAPFO). He made reference to Attachment B, which has a summary of the CIP for schools (blue sheet). Council Member Harrison left at 9:09 PM. Planning Director Craig Benedict summarized Attachment A (School Level of Service (LOS), Capacity, Membership, and Membership Increases). He explained the level of service figures. Chair Jacobs noted that when the State mandated reduced class sizes it also took away school construction money from the County. He commended Commissioner Gordon for working so hard on SAPFO. Commissioner Gordon said that Attachment A is a snapshot and it gives information showing when schools are needed. She said that if you look at 2012-13 for CHCCS, there is a school needed because the school capacity went over 105%. Council Member Pease said that Chapel Hill Town Council has been shown plans for growth in Chapel Hill. He asked if there was any commonality between all the different bodies that are doing growth projections and if there is any agreement about what growth is going to look like. Craig Benedict said that there have been similar questions about the growth that will occur countywide. The projections are based on history. Mayor Chilton asked when an elementary school would be needed in OCS, based on the model. Craig Benedict said that it would be 2020-21. However, there is a substantial amount of growth occurring on the Orange County side of Mebane. If these children begin showing up in the schools, this will affect the future projections. Mayor Chilton said that there is a constant demand for new schools in CHCCS and there is a much slower pace of demand for additional schools in OCS. He said that there is a lot of unused space at the middle school level in OCS. Council Member Ward asked about legal challenges to SAPFO and whether there is anything on the horizon from the legislature. Chair Jacobs said that the County has never invoked the CAPS that would prevent development from continuing under SAPFO. Orange County Staff Attorney Jennifer Galassi said that this is something County Attorney John Roberts has spoken to the Board of County Commissioners about. There is a petition from outside the county where Cabarrus County's SAPFO was struck down. This might be an issue in the future and the SAPFO may have to be amended. Commissioner Pelissier said that Orange County really needs the assistance from all towns to help work with the school systems to find sites for new schools. If all of these schools were built, the County would have to allocate $100 million in debt before 2018. � Information Items (No Presentations) • Southern Orange County Government Services Campus Master Plan • Proposed New Jail Facility in Hillsborough • Steps to Implement New Transit Sales Tax and Vehicle Tag Fees Update � Adiournment The meeting adjourned at 9:42 PM. Barry Jacobs, Chair Donna S. Baker, CMC Clerk to the Board