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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20070508APPROVED 6/26/2007 MINUTES Joint Meeting of The Orange County Board of Commissioners And Chatham County Board of Commissioners May 8, 2007 7:00 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a Joint Meeting with the Chatham County Board of Commissioners an Tuesday, May 8, 2007 at 7:00 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill. N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Moses Carey, Jr., and Commissioners Valerie Foushee, Alice M. Gordon, and Barry Jacobs COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Mike Nelson COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Brian Ferrell COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Laura Blackman, Assistant County Manager Gwen Harvey, and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below) CHATHAM COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Carl E. Thompson, Vice -Chair George Lucier and Commissioners Patrick Barnes, Mike Cross, and Tom Vanderbeck CHATHAM COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: CHATHAM COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Charlie Horne TOWN OF PITTSBORO MAYOR: Randolph Voller 1. Welcome and Introductions Chair Carey welcomed the Chatham County Commissioners and said that this is the first time they have had a Mayor from Pittsboro to meet with the Orange County Commissioners. He said that the purpose of this meeting is to explore opportunities to work collaboratively on certain issues that are on the agenda tonight. Chatham County Chair Carl Thompson said that this is a meeting that is long overdue. He said this is an important meeting and there are issues that affect both counties. He said he hopes they can build an what is done tonight and establish a working group. Introductions were made. Chair Carey said that were same items included on the agenda that had surfaced in a previous meeting with the Orange County Chair and Vice-Chair and same Chatham County officials. Other items were also added. 2. Park Facilities Planning and Use Environment and Resource Conservation Director Dave Stancil said that both of the counties have been engaged in conservation projects and Orange County has been aggressive in this effort. Tonight he will be talking about Southern Community Park. The Tawn of Chapel Hill purchased acreage for the park, which is south of Southern Village and very close to the Chatham County line. In 1997 and 2001, Orange County allocated monies toward this park project. A master plan was created in 2004, and there are three soccer fields that are to be a part of this park along with a dog park and other amenities. He said that this park has moved through the various phases and is now getting construction bids, but funds are not available to meet the projected casts for constructing the park as shown. Charlie Horne asked if this would be phased and Dave Stancil said that this is a question for the Chapel Hill Town Council. Chair Carey introduced Roger Stancil, Town Manager of Chapel Hill. Roger Stancil said that several phases of the park are planned and it is related to the resources available. He said the Town Council approved a bid last night for everything that the resources can fund. Commissioner Gordon asked about the PARTF grant and Roger Stancil said that he feels confident that Chapel Hill will receive this grant. Commissioner Jacobs said that Orange County has raised this issue with two previous Chatham County Chairs and Vice-Chairs, and some were more receptive than others about entering into some kind of partnership with Orange County or at least discussing it so that Chatham County residents could have access to this park. He said this is the third time this has been brought up and this park is situated so close to Chatham County. Chair Carey said that to build this park completely it will take more funds and that Chapel Hill has asked for more money to assist with this park, and the Orange County Board of County Commissioners will be considering this. He said that people will go where there are parks that are convenient. Carl Thompson asked about amulti-county agreement that the Chatham County Commissioners could look at and Commissioner Jacobs said that the Little River Park has this type of agreement with Orange and Durham Counties. He said that this park has won a lot of awards and grants because of the partnership. Mayor Voller asked about the traffic impact of this park because this intersection is already difficult sometimes. He said that the majority of people in Pittsboro work in Chapel Hill and the drives are increasing because of more development in this area. Commissioner Gordon addressed the question about development. She said that with respect to Smith Level Road, there are efforts to get alternative modes of transportation, and there are plans to try and get sidewalks. With respect to15-501, there is a proposed public park and ride lot in Chatham County, but the only one there now is the one that UNC built for its employees. There are proposed bus routes, but there is no funding. Tam Vanderbeck asked if this land was donated or purchased, and what Orange County's costs are as it relates to this facility. He said that they need these figures to make some kind of determination about a contribution. Chair Carey said that Orange County does not expect Chatham County to give money tonight but to open up discussions on these issues. Roger Stancil said that he proposes to get all of this information to Chatham County. He said that Chapel Hill purchased the land before he was employed here. Chair Carey said that if they move forward on this, it will be important to bring Chapel Hill to the table, since it will be Chapel Hill's facility to operate with a tremendous interest by Orange County. George Lucier asked how Orange County and Chapel Hill pay for parkland and Planning Director Craig Benedict explained the park payment-in-lieu fee. Chapel Hill has something similar. Commissioner Gordon said that Orange County does buy land through the Lands Legacy program, and one purpose is far recreation and parks. 3. Open Space Preservation Efforts Dave Stancil said that the next two items are related. In 2000, Orange County created a Lands Legacy program, which was one of the first of its type in North Carolina to try and fund the acquisition of important natural and cultural resource lands within the County. A copy of the brochure was in the agenda packet. He said that, to date, they have protected 1,800 acres and have helped fund another 800 acres. Orange County has been fortunate to have bonds approved by voters and also funds of $3.7 million in grant funds. There are five areas of focus of the program: • Park land purchases • Natural areas and wildlife habitat • Riparian watersheds • Farmland conservation easements • Historic and cultural sites He said that partnerships are critical to Orange County. The program functions by having two-year action plans that are approved by the Board. He said that the conservation efforts do not stop at county lines. Dave Stancil answered several clarifying questions about the Lands Legacy Program from Chatham County Commissioners. George Lucier asked about a map and Dave Stancil said that he does have a conservation map and can make it available at a later date. Chair Carey said that Carl Thompson just asked him about Transfer of Development Rights and if Orange County has considered this. He asked Craig Benedict to explain this. Planning Director Craig Benedict said that Orange County hired a consultant to help with this endeavor and it has been in three phases. The first and second phases were research, data collection, and case studies of other attempts in North Carolina and the United States. There was then a feasibility stage. In June of last year, it was decided that it is feasible in Orange County just transferring development rights from rural Orange County to urbanizing Orange County, using existing development authority that is given by existing legislation. The next phase is implementation. In the fall there will be public hearings before this goes into the ordinance phase. Craig Benedict answered clarifying questions of the Chatham County Commissioners. Commissioner Jacobs said that this will be driven by the market and not the government. He said that the notion of transferring residential density to commercial square footage is almost unheard of. He said that this part will be more unique because usually it goes from residential density to residential density, and this is not what Orange County wants in the EDD. Mayor Voller said that this is a good idea, but he understands that the county cannot transfer from county to municipality without enabling legislation. He said that the problem is that if they had been able to drive more people into Pittsboro from the northwest corridor, they could get transportation a lot quicker because there would be density. Right now, there is a lot of farmland being chewed up. He does not see a way to stop it without a mechanism like this. Commissioner Jacobs said that Orange County did a joint plan with the Town of Hillsborough, and as part of the joint plan, the Town will be able to expand its extraterritorial jurisdiction. TDR could be used here and it would become a part of Hillsborough. Craig Benedict said that Orange County is treading new ground on this proposal. 4. Jordan Lake Macrosite Natural Heritage Area Dave Stancil said that this is a natural area that spans three counties (Orange, Durham, and Chatham}, and there are a number of animal and plant species and opportunities for collaboration among a variety of partners in this area -the counties and land trusts. George Lucier asked about buffers on the Jordan Lake watershed in Orange County and Chapel Hill. He said that the Chatham Board of County Commissioners is very interested in this. Dave Stancil said that there are new rules coming into effect. He said that Chapel Hill does have some fairly extensive buffer requirements in the resource conservation areas. Orange County's jurisdiction, within the Jordan Lake watershed, is primarily the southern triangle part of the County. The New Hope Basin is also a part of the Jordan Lake watershed. Generally, Orange County's buffers are calculated within the watershed based an a formula that looks at the slope of the land and some base buffer areas from the stream bank. Craig Benedict said that it is roughly 65-80 feet wide, and in some cases, on steeper slopes, it can be 160 feet total or 80 feet on either side. There are different requirements based on different watersheds within the County. University and Jordan Lakes have more strict buffer requirements. George Lucier said that Chatham County is working on this now and the Jordan Lake issue is massive. Craig Benedict said that Orange County has a department that has been given authority by the State for stream identification. This is the Erosion Sedimentation Control Department. He said that Orange County staff would be willing to assist Chatham County staff with knowledge and expertise about stream buffers and storm water regulations. Commissioner Jacobs said that there is a partnership on the DurhamlOrange County line with the City of Durham, Durham County, the Town of Chapel Hill, and Orange County to preserve natural areas. He said that the Little River Regional Park is a partnership between the Ena River Association, Triangle Land Conservancy, Durham County, and Orange County. He said that both of those fit better in the open space preservation category. He said that the southeastern portion of Orange County is a fruitful area in which to do collaboration that would positively impact Jordan Lake water quality. Mayor Voller asked what information Orange County has about the New Hope watershed. He said that it seems that Orange County is trying to buffer that area, but it directly affects anything Chatham County tries to do. Craig Benedict said that Orange County has had some land use decisions to decrease density and decrease imperviousness, besides having a buffer. He said that they have used a combination of their storm water ordinance and low impact design. Dave Stanch said that, from a land conservation standpoint, Orange County is looking at the Lands Legacy program to try and focus on confluences, places where streams came together. Mayor Voller said that they are all facing the same development pressures. He asked what happens when Carolina North is developed and there is a tremendous amount of impervious surface. Commissioner Jacobs said that Chapel Hill expects that there will be zero runoff an its sites. He said that Orange County has been doing watershed protection for a long time because it is the headwaters far sa many watersheds. He hopes that there will be more of a relationship between municipalities and helping to preserve by bringing some money to the table to do some of the conservation easements and make sure that there is not development in the watershed that adversely affects water. Commissioner Gordon mentioned one other multi-jurisdictional agreement -the Joint Planning Agreement from 1987. This is between Orange County, Chapel Hill, and Carrboro. 5. Transportation Planning/Public Transportation -OPT and CTN coordination Craig Benedict said that this has to do with the MPO and RPO coordination. He showed an area map of all of the counties in the RPO. There have been meetings on a regular basis for urban planning. There are ongoing extensive efforts to coordinate this MPO and an urban style transportation network. He made reference to population and employment projections. He said that they received new numbers last Friday from the DurhamlChapel Hill/Orange CountylChatham MPO. He then showed a chart on the screen related to growth that occurs with employment. He said that major growth is expected to occur and there needs to be a plan for public transportation. George Lucier said that he understands that these numbers are for the eastern third of Chatham County only. Tom Vanderbeck said that in this northeastern area, if you are in anon-attainment area as far as air quality, unless it is addressed, there will be no funding. He said that there are lots of reasons to adapt a more aggressive and proactive public transportation model. Charlie Horne asked how TTA fit into this process. Craig Benedict said that their regional efforts are becoming more and more widespread. AI Terry with Orange Public Transportation said that the State is very much in favor of looking at any type of regional effort for public transportation in any area of the State. The State is also funding a survey with Durham, Wake, and Orange Counties to look at the community transit systems (rural areas) and combining the services. He said that this same consulting firm is open to including other counties, and Chatham County has been mentioned because of the natural corridors that come back to Chapel Hill. He said that Orange County has partnered with TTA to provide a public route between Hillsborough and Chapel Hill. Orange County operates the route and TTA funds 75% of it. It has been a very viable partnership. Also, Orange County partners with the Town of Chapel Hill and Alamance and Caswell Counties on occasion. He said that if there is a consolidated effort with the three counties, Triangle Transit Authority will most likely be the host agency. George Lucier asked how Chatham County would get started with this. The northeastern portion is of mast interest now. There have been 15,000 units in this area approved but not yet built. AI Terry said that the process now is at the implementation stage with the consulting firm. If the plan is favorable to the governing bodies, it will have to be approved by two contiguous counties. He said that Chatham County and Caswell County need to be involved in this. He said that the only way he knows for them to get involved is to talk with North Carolina PTD Director Marion Perry since it is so close to the end of the process. Mayor Voller said that he has had conversations with Mr. King from TTA. He said that it has been his dream to bring buses to Pittsboro running on bio-diesel. Commissioner Gordon said that as Chair of both TTA and Durham-Chapel Hill-Carrboro MPO, she would like to say something. She said that the Special Transit Advisory Commission started its work on May 2"d. Dianne Reid will be the representative from Chatham County. This special group has representatives from CAMPO, DCHC, and people from all over Wake, Orange, and Durham Counties as well as other areas. The charge is coming up with the special new vision for transit. The TTA service area is Wake, Durham, and Orange Counties, plus the ten-mile buffer that touches Pittsboro. She urged Chatham County to get involved in this. She said that everything is open in terms of creativity. AI Terry said that this year DOT awarded additional ROAP funds to those who applied far it. The additional funds were to expand services or to start new services. If it is offered again this next year, this could be one way to fund something in Chatham County. Commissioner Gordon suggested trying an MPO/RP0 collaboration on a park and ride lot or a bus route, and try to get funds from both entities. She said that she would like to work with Chatham County and Pittsboro to make this a reality. Mayor Voller said that the Town of Pittsboro and the RPO recently passed a resolution for the four counties for public transportation, indicating that you cannot pave your way out of the problem. The resolution was sent to DOT. He said that it is also a security issue because they are concerned about having a network to move thousands of people in case of an emergency. He said that they could use Orange County's help. Commissioner Gordon said that she had heard that there were only 10,000 units coming online, and now it is 15,000 units. George Lucier said that this does not include the property of Mr. Goodnight, which is 5,000 acres. He said that 15,000 units would be roughly 40,000 people in an area that now has only 30,000 people. These will be highly mobile people and 15-501 will be tremendously affected. Commissioner Jacobs said that Orange County met with representatives from Alamance County about a year ago and they have a similar interest in public transportation. Also, he and Commissioner Foushee served on the Carolina North Leadership Commission. The University is acutely aware that more and more of its employees live outside of Orange County. He thinks that the next phase of the discussions might be bringing the University to the table, because they want to look at transportation options to bring their employees in ways that will not make Chapel Hill unhappy with Carolina North. In order for Carolina North to be approved, there will have to be a heavy reliance on public transportation. Carl Thompson said that he agrees with Mayor Voller that there are a number of people from the western part of Chatham County that work at UNC. He said that he has not been as involved in this planning process about public transportation. He said that the one key is cost. He asked if Chatham County was involved enough in this planning process to be able to plan financially. Commissioner Gordon said that the information she is getting from staff for Chatham County should have these figures. AI Terry said that the way they look at the financial end is that NCDOT requires them to prepare on a yearly basis an Operational Stat report that breaks it down to the point of what it costs per hour to move a bus. This is the figure used to tell the County what it costs to add a route. Charlie Horne said that there have to be riders to make it worthwhile. AI Terry said that OPT was running a similar route five times a day, Monday-Friday from 8:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m. This did not work very well since most people that work at UNC do not arrive at 8:30 or leave at 4:30. He said that they have looked at the traditional hours of work and now they run from 6:00 a.m. to 6:00 p.m. This increased the ridership from 31 to 78 almost immediately. He said that he makes it very personal and he sometimes sits an the bus and talks to the passengers to see what they want. It is not an urban transit. 6. Haw River Access Point Development for Paddlers-(Chicken Bridge Access Point) Charlie Horne said that Chatham County is working on several different access areas or the Haw River. He does not know the status of this access point. George Lucier said that it is an access point. Charlie Horne said that Chatham County is also part of the Haw Trail System development. George Lucier said that now there is a state park that runs up the Haw River from Jordan Lake to Bynum. Dave Stancil said that Orange County is also part of the Haw River development. The plan is to take it upstream to Greensboro, and also to have an access area in Orange County in the Old Greensboro Road crossing area. 7. Other Chair Carey asked about next steps and whether to schedule another meeting. Tom Vanderbeck said that another possibility of collaboration would be cooperation on water intake and pursuing an allocation. George Lucier said that Orange County has land in Chatham County on Jordan Lake. Chair Carey said that this is owned by OWASA. He said that Orange County plans to engage OWASA in future discussions with Chatham County. Carl Thompson asked about the joint planning group (Chatham- Orange Work Group). Commissioner Gordon said that it has not met for same quite some time. Carl Thompson would like to bring this group back together. Commissioner Gordon said that the first meeting would be to get people up to date and that it could meet as often as people wanted. She said that she would like to form the group and then see if people wished to continue. All of the Chatham County Commissioners have changed since the last time this group met. Carl Thompson said that he would endorse this idea to reconstitute this group. Commissioner Jacobs suggested two topics for the next time the two boards meet - waterintake and land use planning. He said that, before they break into the smaller group, they need to get the University to the table to talk about Carolina North regarding public transportation. He made reference to the joint planning issue and said that he knows the Mayor of Chapel Hill is interested in talking about this. Part of the Joint Planning Agreement is an annexation agreement that Chapel Hill and Carrbora do not annex into certain areas. It is planned and then becomes part of the towns' jurisdictions. It is agreed in advance where the towns can annex and where they cannot. This is part of why the relations have been stable and pleasant for 20 years. He made reference to the major development project near the county harder that affects traffic modeling, and the whole notion of developments of regional impact. He said that there was no mechanism for having a conversation with Chatham elected officials about what was going on there before a decision was made. He suggested talking about some of these things and then breaking into a smaller group that could be empowered by the elected boards to work on some of these issues. He suggested looking at a cooperative arrangement and getting Chapel Hill, Carrboro, and the University to the table. George Lucier said that Chatham County has a Major Corridor Ordinance Task Force that is working on a major corridor ordinance. There are representatives from Pittsboro, Siler City, Goldston, Chapel Hill, and Cary. The whole idea is to develop a framework to guide residential and economic development along the corridor that has gotten out of hand an 15-501. He said that they could invite more people to the table. The goal is to be able to identify commercial nodes. Chair Carey suggested that the Chairs/Vice-ChairslMayars/Managers get together to develop a proposal that includes all of these elements in the next couple of weeks. Mayor Voller said that he supports getting UNC involved and having everyone at the table. Commissioner Jacobs said that Triangle J Council of Governments is trying to do an infrastructure initiative and bring the universities into it. UNC, Duke, and NCCU have agreed to participate for at least three years. He said that this fits right into that. Commissioner Gordon said that, as Chair of DCHC, she will fallow through with the initiative that she already started with the staff, to get a transportation meeting together. Chair Carey said that there are many parallel efforts going on and those will continue. Commissioner Gordon made reference to the real estate transfer tax and said that some representatives from the schools (PTAs, etc.) are starting to send letters to the legislators to try and push for this. She encouraged Chatham County to do the same. Patrick Barnes said that he thinks the House will probably support the one percent but the Senate may be a battle. He said that Mike Crass has worked tirelessly on this effort. He thinks that everybody needs to take an optimistic attitude and contact every Senator possible. With no further items to address, the meeting was adjourned at 9:29 PM. Moses Carey, Jr., Chair Donna S. Baker Clerk to the Board The primary objective of this meeting was to provide updates on current efforts/plans in each of the above areas and to identify other areas in which the counties, towns and other stakeholders may work together for the benefit of the residents of bath counties.