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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20050822APPROVED 1/24/2006 ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS and ORANGE COUNTY PLANNING BOARD JOINT 1NORK SESSION August 22, 2005 7:30 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners and the Orange County Planning Board met for a Joint Work Session on Monday, August 22, 2005 at 7:30 p.m. in the F. Gordon Battle Courtroom in Hillsborough, N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Moses Carey, Barry Jacobs, Valerie Foushee, Alice M. Gordon, and Stephen H. Halkiatis COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoff Gledhill COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Jahn M. Link, Jr., and Deputy Clerk to the Board David Hunt (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below} PLANNING BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Vice Chair Ted Triebel and Members Craufurd Goodwin, Sam Lasris, Brian Dobyns, and Renee Price PLANNING BOARD MEMBER5 ABSENT: Chair Jay Bryan, and Members Jeffrey Schmitt, Sandra Quinn, and Timothy Webb NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE A. OPENING REMARKS FROM THE CHAIR: Chair Carey welcomed all the members of the Planning Board and the public. He pointed out that there is a replacement chart for Item 2 at their places. B. PUBLIC CHARGE: The Board of Commissioners pledges to the citizens of Orange County its respect. The Board asks its citizens to conduct themselves in a respectful, courteous manner, both with the Board and with fellow citizens. At any time should any member of the Board or any citizen fail to observe this public charge, the Chair will ask the offending member to leave the meeting until that individual regains personal control. Should decorum fail to be restored, the Chair will recess the meeting until such time that a genuine commitment to this public charge is observed. All electronic devices such as cell phones, pagers, and computers should please be turned off or set to silent/vibrate. C. UPDATE ITEMS: 1. Zanin a. Status Report on Zoning Enforcement Challenges - To update the Board on the current status of zoning enforcement in the county. Craig Benedict said that staff wanted to identify a lot of issues that came up during the year and to give the Board of County Commissioners updates and get direction an the list of items sa they can set their agenda for the following year. He introduced Michael Harvey, Zoning Enforcement Officer for Orange County. Michael Harvey said his purpose in attending was to give the Commissioners an update an where the county is as far as code enforcement issues. He said that he will identify current issues that are ongoing, what staff is attempting to do to resolve these issues, and to propose suggestions and ask for guidance on making minor changes to the ordinance that will assist staff in addressing a lot of these issues. He said that the county has approximately 160 open zoning cases as of February of this year and they hope to clear 40 of them by the end of this month. There are 20 cases that citizens have already abated by their own volition and the remainder will hopefully be completed by February of 2006. He said that they are properly enforcing the ordinance in terms of insuring that they are continuing to follow interpretation of previous staff members and the Board of Adjustment to insure fair and equitable compliance. The common complaints haven't changed much and the mast common complaint is still the illegal storage of junk andlor wrecked motor vehicles on private property. The second item involves a number of complaints, as well as open code enforcement cases, as to how to deal with the illegal storage of goods outdoors. It is considered open storage of items whether it is construction materials, auto parts, lawn care or maintenance devices, or general storage boxes; that is anything stared outdoors. They have cited homeowners for the storage of gravel, asphalt, concrete, etc. and they have encouraged them to put on tarps and covers. The third issue they have dealt with is illegal dumping and land filling. They have seen an increase in causal complaints on some open cases of trucks dumping various debris items off- site on property throughout the county. The fourth item that they are continuing to deal with is the illegal location of signs, including political signs. The next three items for which they receive fewer complaints and have less open cases are abandoned mobile homes, illegal use of property, and encroachment (least number of complaints they get). Michael Harvey said that the BOCC has a report on zoning enforcement in their agenda packets. Michael Harvey said that his office responds to complaints, first and foremost, as soon as possible. He said that citizens do not always accept what zoning officials tell them, so staff tries to explain the codes to them and give them follow-up steps. Staff tries to make sure the citizen understands that staff knows where the citizen is coming from, that they will listen, and that while they are sympathetic, they have rules and regulations that they have to follow. They also make sure the citizens understand that if they do not agree with the decision there is a procedure they can follow in order to have someone oversee their work. The next item is the process itself, which requires 60-90 days to abate to address a problem. What they have done at the staff level is institute a field notice of non-compliance. Included in each packet, is an example of site violation literature. Zoning enforcement staff gets greater conformity when they explain the process to citizens. Michael Harvey said that `citizen means' is the most important thing and for example, they have a citizen on Hwy 57 with hundreds of vehicles on their property and no way to get them off in the time frame normally allowed. Zoning enforcement staff set him up with steps to resolve the issue. Michael Harvey said that he has worked with this for years and he understands that many citizens don't have the resources to address their violations and sometimes, they have had to have grants to assist them. The fourth enforcement challenge is the refusal to accept notices of violation. In some cases staff has no way to get in touch with the citizen to bring them into compliance. The fifth challenge is lack of follow through with violators. Part of the problem they have at the staff level in trying to be nice and grant what they think is appropriate time -the process then goes on for months and even years. He said that lack of facilities ties in with citizen means and part of the problem staff has is that there is no existing county facility that allows abandoned cars, etc. These are the challenges that staff is facing with the chief challenge being citizen's means and their complaint that there is a lack of facilities. In order to address problems, staff is proposing that in the cases of junked vehicles, a viable solution is to find a common ground for storage for these cars, or allow the citizen to cover them with tarps, etc. They would also like to tweak the ordinance in terms of creating what they would call a hobby car accessory use, which would allow individuals to tinker with their cars. Citizens may awn two old antique collectible cars that they would like to fix. They would like to bring this proposed change to the Board and then have it ga to the public hearing process far submission notice to the Planning Board. Michael Harvey said that in reference to the sign ordinance, staff recommends that they be allowed to take the existing sign ordinance and revise it. There are several contradictory statements within the actual ordinance some of which have three different criteria that could be observed. They would like to address the inconsistencies, which would make it easier for the citizens to follow. He said that in reference to abandoned mobile homes, he would like to propose for the Commissioners to authorize staff to begin developing a policy based on the state template so that if grant funds are available they could make application and provide some means of financial assistance to Orange County residents to remove abandoned mobile homes from property. He said that with respect to enforcement they believe a minor tweak is necessary in the enforcement section to eliminate conflicts and also to incorporate the new field notice of non-compliance that they have devised. Since there is no mention of it staff feels that someone may claim it is not part of the official legal process. Michael Harvey said that in reference to administration, staff believes that there is a need to take the provisions in the administration section of the ordinance, there are about three different articles that deal with administration, and insure they comply with state statutory provisions as well as other requirements within the zoning ordinance. And, finally, they have existing definitions of daycare/family group home facilities that are inconsistent with state mandates and guidelines. They would like to modify existing definitions so they reflect state requirements and also look at their procedures and bring them into compliance with the state regulations. Michael Harvey said that they are asking far direction to see if the Board is willing to have these various items brought before them at various times during the timeframe of six months to one year. They have requested for the Board to grant them the ability to bring the proposed zoning amendments (junked motor vehicles, sign regulations, and the daycare/family group home facilities) by November to begin the process with the other items being brought at least in report format for their review and guidance in February 2006. Commissioner Halkiotis wanted to know who is sending out notices to the candidates while planning staff is working on these suggestions on signs. He reminded Mr. Harvey that there is a town election coming up. Craig Benedict said that they send out these notices and they will modify the one they last used {since it was not clear to some of the candidates) working with the manager and attorney to make sure it is more understandable. Commissioner Halkiotis said they should make this applicable to everyone, like realtor signs and yard sale signs-equal enforcement for everyone. He said that he hopes they don't have the confusion they have had in the past. As to lack of facilities, they have been looking at this issue for years. Commissioner Halkiotis said that he knows of mobile homes that have been abandoned and then taken to Alamance County. He feels that the mobile homes should be deconstructed before they are brought to Orange County. Commissioner Halkiotis said that citizen means is a tough one. Unless you look at a person's record it is hard to know what they do and do not have. Commissioner Halkiotis said that he referred a complaint to Michael Harvey and he felt it was handled appropriately. Signs will be important to him, and as to enforcement he feels it will require more than minor tweaking. Commissioner Halkiotis asked how one meets the definition of a legal vehicle if there are four lined up in the yard. Michael Harvey said that it has to be unlicensed, unregistered and be partially dismantled, wrecked, or less than $100.00 in value and not be able to run in a manner it is supposed to be. Michael Harvey said that one of the things they are doing to address citizen means is they have agreed to grant six month extensions, but if citizens do not clear up or abate the problem in six months, then zoning officials will fine them from the first day they are told this is a problem and the citizen signs an agreement to this effect. This has proven to be somewhat effective. Commissioner Jacobs asked how much money the county has collected in fines and Michael Harvey said to date he has not assessed fines to anyone except Mr. King. They either pay the zoning official or the county through the administrative mechanism stated in the ordinance or the County puts a lien on the property. Commissioner Jacobs applauded him and said the distinctions with the junk and wrecked motor vehicles are good ones and they should proceed an that. Commissioner Jacobs suggested they work with Solid Waste on a pilot program like the one in the northeast part of state. The manufactured housing industry wants to work with local government to take mobile homes for recycling and Commissioner Jacobs would like for us to be mare proactive in this recycling and to offer ourselves as a pilot project for this. He also suggested going out in the community to find assistance rather than assessing the homeowner. Commissioner Jacobs brought a copy of an article about the way Durham is looking at signs and his experience is that our standards are confusing and he said that they asked for staff to look at what other counties are doing before they make a decision and he is in no rush to bring this to a public hearing in November. He would rather see staff talk to some of the other enforcement people around us and figure out why they are doing it the way they are doing it. Commissioner Jacobs said we have a really good process as far as the way we deal with people who are having trouble paying their taxes and perhaps this same approach could work. Commissioner Jacobs asked is there anything in writing to say what the process is. Michael Harvey said that he has a check off sheet and they mandate people who receive generic letters to set up an appointment and he will go out on the property and show them exactly what they need to do. Commissioner Jacobs asked if the appeal process is in writing. Michael Harvey said that the appeal process is in writing and it is in the appendices. Chair Carey asked if there is are problems when they do the field notice of non- compliance and Michael Harvey said yes. Commissioner Gordon asked if someone complains and Zoning staff goes out and finds a problem or that they are in compliance, does staff see these as potential problems or just frivolous neighbors. Michael Harvey said that he has been out where there were blatant violations and sometimes it is just an issue with the neighbors that goes beyond the zoning ordinance. Commissioner Gordon said that some of the points in the junked vehicles definition are good. However, if they want it to be permissible to have car parts lying around, they need to be careful about what is allowed; otherwise enforcement will became very hard. Michael Harvey said that he feels that they have addressed this concern by having a hobby car definition. Commissioner Gordon reminded them that they had been asked to look at what other jurisdictions in our county are doing with their sign ordinance and to try to make our ordinance conform to the other jurisdictions as much as possible, as long as public safety is addressed. Chair Carey said that he shares the Board's views and their main priority is public safety and asked that Michael Harvey be thorough and complete. Sam Lasris asked if there was an environmental impact on junked cars and Michael Harvey said if there are fluids left in vehicles there could be an environmental impact but the zoning ordinance does not give them any purview to make that determination currently. Sam Lasris said that the state doesn't inspect wells and Michael Harvey said that they have been working with the state on Mr. King's property, but they have been a little disappointed with the lack of initiative. Sam Lasris asked how most of the cases are resolved and Michael Harvey said they go to the property owners and explain to them the way to bring the property into compliance instead of just sending out letters. They have instituted a lot of public contact and meeting with citizens who are in violation and specifically showing them what has to be done. There is no permit to park any kind of junked vehicle on their property. If they get a license far the vehicle, then it is not considered junked and it is legal to have on the property. Sam Lasris said that some might believe that having unwanted signs could be a nuisance. He has a vacant lot and there are signs an his property and he has to pull them up or maw over them. Renee Price said that vacant mobile homes are a safety issue. She also asked about the storage of equipment such as tractors, which could be a problem in a rural area. Michael Harvey said that they are not talking about one or two tractors but items and debris in multitudes. Michael Harvey said that farm related equipment is exempt. Renee Price said that several years ago the county increased zoning fines and she wondered what advantage this has been. Michael Harvey said he has not levied fines because people have been working with the county due to Mr. King's case. Craig Benedict said the process has helped - it is a ten-step process and they are systematically going through the process with citizens. They know there is a regimented process and having this process lined out has helped them with compliance-and the process is clear enough to get compliance without the assessment of fines. Ted Triebel said that a tractor is not a motor vehicle and Michael Harvey said it is considered farm equipment. Ted Triebel asked if there was a goal to respond to citizen complaints in a certain length of time. Michael Harvey said he tries to return phone calls within a day and to set a meeting within 24 hours. Ted Treibel said that he was in a spirited discussion with someone about buying gas and storing it on their property and he is concerned about environmental issues and wondered if they had thought about this in terms of zoning. Craig Benedict said that the only farming that is not exempt is petroleum tank farming and they are licensed by the state. b. Child Care Facilities Zoning Amendment - To consider the need to revise certain portions of the Zoning Ordinance regarding child care facilities to bring them into alignment with state classifications. c. Family Care, Group Home, & Rehab Facilities Amendments -To discuss the need to revise certain portions of the Zoning Ordinance regarding group and family care facilities to bring them into alignment with state classifications. d. Floodplain Amendments - To ensure consistency between the other County development regulations and the Flood Damage Prevention Ordinance, certain revisions to the Zoning Ordinance, Subdivision Regulations, and private road standards are proposed. Craig Benedict summarized items 1 b, 1 c, and 1 d. He said the county has not changed their regulations but the state has and they need to bring the county's regulations into alignment with the state's regulation. They will be able to provide the report shaving state law, showing our regulations and where they think they need to align each other. They will get a report together on these three issues in the next couple of months. Commissioner Halkiotis asked staff if they know where all these facilities are in the county and Glen Bowles said that they know where the licensed ones are. He also asked if Mr. Bowles had reason to believe there were some that were not licensed. Mr. Bowles responded yes. Commissioner Halkiotis then asked if there were some under investigation. Mr. Bowles responded no--not active investigation. Commissioner Halkiotis said he was not going to pursue this any further since he could see from the map that they were given that something was not on the map and he knaves people are dropping their children off there every day. He also said that we should be doing everything possible to ensure they are licensed. John Link wanted to know where the county's zoning enforcement process ended and where the state's obvious regulatory process began. There is a cadre of state folks whose primary responsibility is to focus on day care facilities. Glen Bowles then cited an example where a lady called and asked him far a letter to give to the state of NC to establish an adult care facility in her house. He had to determine what the zoning on the house was and if it met our zoning regulations. So they get their state license first and then if there are any zoning issues they have to deal with them after they get their license or while they are getting their license. John Link said if there are problems with the operation of a facility once the zoning aspects are examined, there are Social Services here in Orange County, active Day Care Associations throughout the state, the State Division of Facility Services and they are the ones who come in and look at the operation of the facility. Craig Benedict acknowledged that is correct. He also said that zoning for certain caliber facilities might require a special use permit B from the Board of Adjustment or in some cases a special use permit A which would go in front of the Planning Board and the Commissioners. Craig also said that they are not really sure if the state hasn't issued licenses to people without thoroughly checking with them concerning zoning issues. John Link said they are working closely with our own Social Services Department and Glen Bowles said yes that is true. 2. Status Report on Building Activity - To provide an update of Inspections Division activity and building trends within Orange County and Hillsborough. Craig Benedict said that Susan Mellott, Building Inspections Division Supervisor would go over a few charts that are in the Commissioners' packets. Ms. Mellott explained that they permit, process, and inspect buildings built within the unincorporated areas of Orange County and the Town of Hillsborough. Attachment 1, Chart A reflects how many homes are built per year. The chart starts out at a little above 300 in 1995, drops back down in 2001 and 2002 fiscal years, but that is not a true reflection of the work they are charged with inspecting. Chart B reflects the average square footage that is actually inspected. As the number of homes built went down in 2001 and 2002, the actual square footage increased. The complexity of work increased along with large home size. Commissioner Halkiotis asked if they are seeing fewer and bigger homes and Ms. Mellott said yes that is true. Attachment 2 reflects in a graphic representation the townships, the number of homes per township, the square footage, the number of bedrooms, and the valuation. One interesting note, Cheeks Township had the largest number of homes, the smallest average square footage so the smaller homes are concentrated in that area. Commissioner Gordon asked about units and Susan Mellot said multiply by 1 million. Ted Triebel said the chart indicated one and two family dwellings and he wondered if the two family dwellings meant a duplex. Susan Mellot said that would be single-family detached dwelling, duplexes, mother-in- law apartments, town homes, and modular homes. Attachment 3 reflects the volume of field inspections, which is the heart of what they do. There are three reasons those inspections are increasing: the complexity of single-family dwellings, an increase in commercial projects, and code changes that took place in 2003. Commissioner Gordan asked about the field inspections number that goes from 0- 20,000. Ms. Mellot said that the definition of a field inspection would be a building inspection, a framing inspection, footing, electrical, plumbing, and mechanical. The average number of inspections has increased from a minimum of 11 to 18 with the new code adoption. Susan Mellot said that the state adopted the international code and it increased the number of inspections. Commissioner Gordon said if you read among these charts they show in the year 2002-03 actual inspections of approximately 14,000, but the number of units does not reflect this. Susan Mellot said that the building inspections are total inspections that would include residential and commercial. Commercial has not been introduced yet, but the majority of inspections in Orange County are residential. Commissioner Gordon wanted to know how many trips this represents and Susan Mellott said 14,000 trips per year and they average 70-100 inspectians a day. Commissioner Halkiotis mentioned Home Depot inspections and Susan Mellat said they have had 68 field inspections to Home Depot and this is a tilt type of construction and required less inspections than Wal-Mart. This does not include erosion control. She said that they have had 78 inspectians at the new Middle School just in the slab work and the footings. Field inspections are trips that are made to the site from the office. With inspectians revenue to budget comparisons they are fairly on target. Attachment 4 {corrected one), Chart A reflects the value of construction and better represents the activity and complexity of the work that they do in the field. The Town of Hillsborough residential is a very small portion of what they do; it is actual 6% of the total valuation of the work that they inspect. Orange County is 80°~ residential -the residential total of work they inspect is 86°~. Attachment 4, Chart B, reflects the commercial valuation and those numbers are much smaller. The Town of Hillsborough is their leader in this with 12°~ of the total valuation within the Tawn of Hillsborough. The commercial aspect of the inspections is 14% of the work that they do. Two percent of that commercial aspect is Orange County. There are no County Buildings in this tally, but churches and other non-profits are included in the Orange County portion because that is the majority of what they inspect. Commissioner Gordon said that in Hillsborough it is mostly commercial and in Orange County it is mostly churches and Commissioner Gordon would like to see this broken out. Susan Mellott said that could be done. Chair Carey asked about tract builders' inspection rejection rate. Susan Mellot said that the tract builders have a 48°~ rejection rate and the local builders have a 16°~ rejection rate. Our homeowners, who compile 52°~ of all the residential permits, which does not mean just building a new home; it could also mean adding a garage, etc, comprise a 19°~ reinspection rate. They provide a complementary inspection as noted in the customer service initiative; if these were not offered, the homeowner reinspection rates would be about 30%. Susan said the reason that tract builders have such a high rejection rate is that they do not do what the original inspectians ask for. Susan Mellott explained that the peak in 03-04 in Chart B represented Sports Endeavor and Patriots Point. John Link mentioned that if they have good numbers on the percent of rejection of inspections with tract builders maybe they could amend the fee schedule to address this issue. Susan Mellott said they get 4 visits free before they even start assessing fees. Susan Mellat then referred to Item D (staffing levels and customer service initiatives). In December 2003, they came before the Board asking for approval for new staff positions, which were granted. The following improvements have been made due to the new staff positions: a} Plans Review - in August 2003 they were giving residential plans 6 weeks turnaround, and 9 weeks for commercial plans review. By January 2004, all positions were filled and by mid- March they had accomplished aone-week turnaround an residential plans review and three weeks for commercial and they have been able to maintain that with the current staffing level. b}Inspections are now completed 98% of the time on the day that they are requested. This is up from 63% in 2003 and 42% in 2004. c} Peak Activity/Staffing Responses -working in the Town of Hillsborough and the unincorporated areas of the county, it is a toss of the hat sometimes to determine in the next budget year what their activities will be. They missed it in 01-02 but hit it in 03. They try to anticipate what may come on line next year. They work with the Town of Hillsborough closely because they can impact them pretty severely. As development increases substantially, they may or not be able to handle it. If it stays as it is, they are holding their own. They are thankful for the staff they have. Commissioner Jacobs asked her if she tracks complaints. Susan Mellott said they track complaints such as my neighbor is building a garage without a permit and also complaints on staff. Commissioner Jacobs would like for Ms. Mellott to share this with the Board. Ms. Mellt said she would do that and she also has letters of commendation to share. Commissioner Jacobs also asked about the automated email. Susan Mellott said that this was in response to some of the phone problems they have in the inspections department. They receive about 46,000 phone calls and these are predominantly answered by 2 people who also act as receptionist for the Planning and Agriculture Building and handle all the walk- ins. She said that sometimes people are put on hold and in an effort to work with staff on addressing phone calls, they have automated emails and their information will go out by 6pm on the day of their inspections. They have also automated their permit approval and the fee. There is also another access through the website to look up their permits and see whether there has been inspection activity if they are trying to assess their jabs. They have a lot of initiatives that would be web related that they would like to do which is being held up usually with other arrangements with IT ar maybe technology within our own positions. Commissioner Halkiotis said that Ms. Mellot has brought a level of professionalism to this position and has done a great job. Susan Mellott said that they are working an semi-annual reports that will be available electronically of what their activities are. If anyone is interest in receiving these reports, let Craig Benedict knave. Commissioner Gordon commended her and she would like the report. Jahn Link echoed the commendations. Chair Carey also echoed these commendations. 3. Transfer of Development Rights (TDR1 Update - To update the Board on the progress of the TDR Feasibility Study. Craig Benedict said that 112-213 of the board has been appointed already and the first task force meeting is an August 30t". They also have the first phase ar draft report from the consultant where he went through some case studies and some legal parameters. The staff has just taken a first look at that to see if it is in line with their local area knowledge and they will be releasing it to the task farce and board within the next week. They are moving forward with the TDR feasibility study. He said that on their Planning website there are consultant updates. 4. Land Use Element of Comprehensive Plan and Other Elements -Land Use Element Update -Next Steps and Planning Board Role Comprehensive Plan (Other Elements) - Process and Roles Craig Benedict said that they are moving forward for a more formal presentation of the land use plan ideas and it is similar to the timeframe they have seen before. In October, they will be sending out notices to appropriate parties for zoning amendments and an November 2"d they will be asking far consideration of legal advertisement for that 21St meeting. This is where they are moving from outreach in the various advisory boards to actually notifying the public of same of these actions that they plan to bring forward. After they go through public hearing in November, then it will be public comment, planning board, commissioner, and referred back to the Planning Board to do the fine-tuning. The format of how that information comes forward is being worked on now and will give very specific amendment areas. John Link asked about the timetable and said if you have public hearing on November 21St can the Planning Board make a recommendation by December 7t". Craig Benedict said that the Planning Board has been reviewing this and it is up to them and they want it for the Commissioners by early 2006. Commissioner Gordon said that in this land use element update process, she remembered that they were going to send 6 different maps to the public for review and have the text show the differences. Craig Benedict said that since it was the board's interest to show the full range of options from leaving it the way it is to having the options that have been suggested by the regional water authorities. They will give that range of possibilities in the legal ad and anywhere from the most restricted on down would be presented at the public hearing. For example, Little River is presently 2 acres per dwelling unit -they would say from 2 acres per dwelling unit to 1 unit per five acres -from what the existing plan is to up to five acres per dwelling unit. Craig Benedict said that the notice they send out to residents will be specific to their areas, and also that they will mention that this is a countywide initiative. Commissioner Gordon said that the zoning implementation amendments are included and she feels that this is too much far residents to hear at one time. It appears premature to put the zoning implementation amendments into the public hearing when there is such a range of discussion. She understands that they did not want to surprise people about what the zoning implementation might be. She suggested that maybe staff could put into the land use plan the information about the residential density reduction and she assumes that those zoning implementation amendments would also have to have this gamut of non-specific language. Craig Benedict said they would have to give the range also. The Board has expressed to them that if they have some land use amendments they want to bring both up so nothing is lost in translation between land use issues and the implementing zone regulation. Commissioner Gordon said that to come up with the promise or threat that they could implement this on the first zoning amendments presentation is a recipe far disaster. She would like to see public hearing be the draft test for this range of options and then have another hearing if they have consensus. Commissioner Gordon asked if the principles they have are the ones the Board of County Commissioners approved and Craig Benedict said yes. Commissioner Halkiotis seconded Commissioner Cordon's concerns about loading too much upfront. He would also prefer seeing "early" taken off and just leave 2006. They need to slow it down to review this and make sure everyone fully understands what is going on here. Commissioner Jacobs and Commissioner Foushee concurred. 4. Orange CountylHillsborough Urban Transition Area Task Force Report - To provide the Board with a status report of the Orange CountyJHillsborough Urban Transition Area Task Force report and consultant search. Craig Benedict said this had been completed and Orange County has allocated money to help Hillsborough with a consultant. Presently the Tawn of Hillsborough is defining the scope of deliverables for their part of the program and joint interests have been identified by the Planning Department -where there is joint interest, what the limits of the service area are, what the potential for expansion is, what the consistency between land use in Hillsborough and in the transition areas is. Craig Benedict said that staffs have been working together before the consultant comes on board. Commissioner Jacobs introduced Margaret Hauth, Planning Director for the Town of Hillsborough. Craig Benedict said that they have been working well with other recommendations of the task force beyond what the consultant is going to do about their review. 5. Local Government Cooperative Planning - To report on the activities of the Eflandl Mebane Small Area Plan Task Force. a} Mebane -Craig Benedict said that this week the County Manager and he will have a meeting with Mebane to continue forging ahead with improved communication with the projects going on within Mebane. He said that there are13 plus lots that have been bisected by the ever-moving AlamanceJOrange County line. They had a discussion last week with the Department of Transportation, Commissioner Halkiotis and Commissioner Jacobs about haw they can include Orange County when they get some indication of a project on the counties' border area. bj Durham - To consider topics of mutual interest for future discussion with Durham City/County. Craig Benedict said that they have the courtesy review process in place but it needs fine-tuning and there is interest with Durham to begin a small area planning group. The planning staff intends to move to the east and work on some sort of small planning group after they finish with Efland and Hillsborough. This will be brought to the Commissioners before they go ahead with that. John Link said that there may be an opportunity for Managers, ChairlVice-Chairs, and Planning Directors to join city and county folks in Durham and get that kicked off again. Commissioner Halkiotis asked if the new church on Hwy. 70 is an a well and Craig Benedict said yes. Commissioner Halkiotis said that there is a water line in front of that church and wondered where the break off paint is and haw big a place can get before they have to look at something other than a well. Craig Benedict said that it is usually the septic tank that determines that and they are using a dosing system since they have peak activity; they have large storage tanks where they hold back the effluent and dose it over aseven-day period. So they have been able to expand their capacity by having these innovative septic systems. The water system constraints are based on the building code and there limitations in the rural parts of the county for typically churches that operate without the advantage of public water and sewer. Geoff Gledhill said that the Orange County Speedway has the same system because they are event -oriented. Chair Carey asked the County Manager to try and initiate discussions with Durham County and City. Commissioner Jacobs asked if this church was anticipating an expansion and Craig Benedict said yes they have phase 2 plans. Commissioner Jacobs also wanted to know if someone was tracking whether or not there are turning lanes included in phase 2. Craig Benedict said that DOT made the recommendation that when phase 2 comes on line turning lanes would be required with any phase 2 expansion. Commissioner Jacobs then asked about the Durham Economic Development District asking for a meeting and wondered if we communicate with them. Craig Benedict said they were meeting with Durham and Dianne Reid has already met with them. They have residential economic development on the major highway with commerciallretail behind it. In the petition that was given to them in 2003, they have been in contact with Wayne Paschal, who is the resident representative, and they stay in touch with them. Craig Benedict said that their main work has been with Durham since they have gone through 3 different planning directors and Commissioner Jacobs suggested having one meeting where people can bring up items before they talk to their Durham counterparts. John Link said that they need to figure out some rationale for ending water and sewer at Linden Road instead of going up University Station Road and he said he could not answer that question. Craig Benedict said it is up to Orange County on who we decide to provide water and sewer in that area - do we do an interlocal agreement with Durham ar do we enter an interlocal with Hillsborough. It is a decision of the Board. John Link said that the Board needs to have this discussion. Commissioner Halkiotis asked who owns the water pipeline and Craig Benedict said that Hillsborough owns it all the way to near the church. Commissioner Jacobs said there is an agreement with Orange County's land use plan and John Link said that they need to give them a rationale why the water and sewer boundary line ends where it does. Margaret Hauth said that you cannot trade water with two different systems. D. OTHER ITEMS Craig Benedict said that someone had asked about the NPDES (National Pollutant Discharge Elimination System) Phase 2 system -there have been some presentations about this before -areas in Chapel Hill and Carrboro are subject to NPDES, and Hillsborough is subject to NPDES. He pointed out some areas on a map that were also subject to NPDES but implemented by either the state or through delegation to the county. There are still some questions about whether Orange County needs to get a specific permit if they awn property in these urban areas. As far as working with the Tawn of Hillsborough, the county has an MOA to do the NPDES phase 2 systems. That draft permit that has been issued is in the public comment period and within the next month that permit, if there are no comments, will turn into a real permit. Orange County Planning staff and the erasion control staff will be able to turn that MOA into an actual contract. They expect to bring that back to the Board by later this year or early in 2006. ADJOURNMENT The meeting adjourned at 9:32 p.m. Moses Carey, Jr. Chair Donna S. Baker, CMC Clerk to the Board