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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20040927APPROVED 10119/2004 MINUTES WORK SESSION ORANGE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION September 27, 2004 7:30 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a joint Work Session with the Chapel Hill- Carrboro Board of Education and the Orange County Board of Education on Monday, September 27, 2004 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Barry Jacobs and Commissioners Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordon, and Stephen Halkiotis COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Margaret Brown COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill, Sean Borhanian COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Manager Rod Visser and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below} ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Libbie Hough, Vice-Chair Brenda Stephens and Board Members Liz Brown, Randy Copeland, Dennis Whitling, and AI Hartkopf ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS ABSENT: Delores Simpson ORANGE COUNTY SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT PRESENT: Dr. Shirley Carraway CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Elizabeth Carter, Vice-Chair Lisa Stuckey and Board Members Valerie Foushee, Nicholas M. Didow, Jamezetta Bedford, and Mike Kelley CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS ABSENT: Edward Sechrest CHAPEL HILL- CARRBORO CITY SCHOOLS SUPERINTENDENT PRESENT: Dr. Neil Pedersen Chair Elizabeth Carter said that Ed Sechrest was not in attendance because he was working out of town. 1. County/OCSICHCCS DiscussionlPolicy Issues a. School Collaboration Update Chair Jacobs said that the collaboration group has been meeting since the last time the school boards met in April. John Link pointed out the information in the background materials. One of the areas of discussion last spring was collaboration initiatives. There were two collaboration meetings facilitated by Andy Sachs of the Dispute Settlement Center -July 8t" and August 24t". He hopes that members of the boards would speak to their impression of the process so far. Elizabeth Carter made reference to addendum 1a1 and the first bullet that says, "Chapel Hill schools approved some student transfers into County school district," and said that they approved a/! of these requests and not some. She asked that this be noted. Elizabeth Carter said that at the August 24th meeting, the most important thing for her was to see some of their work come to life. She said that they did not come to any real conclusions, and they need to be careful in moving forward and not being accused of attaching themselves to one entity. She said that they could talk about a way of how the funding could be better used. She said that they did not feel that they had all of the support they were seeking from the County Commissioners. She said that at the last meeting of the three boards it seemed that the County Commissioners were a little reserved about efforts toward collaboration, so they were hesitant to continue to move forward. A lot of these initiatives require funding. Libbie Hough said that she also thinks that in part some folks felt that things would move too quickly and would not be well thought through. They want to make sure that this can remain alive and not just a discussion. Another reason she thinks that things are moving slowly is because they have to get used to talking to one another on the different boards. Chair Jacobs said that at the last collaboration meeting they spent time on how the County acts differently in addition to per pupil funding. He made reference to the draft minutes of the August 24t" meeting, at the bottom of page two, and pointed out the ideas identified that might fall outside the purview of schools that have to do with the health, safety, and general welfare of 17,000 students. He said that they had tried to promote a meeting to talk about school resource officers (SRO) and sent letters to the mayors. He asked if anything came of these letters. John Link said that they are trying to get all of the schedules together and hope to have a meeting in late October. The Sheriff is excited about getting involved. Chair Jacobs said that there were issues regarding to whom SROs report, who pays for them, and whether there is comparable coverage everywhere. Crossing guards were also a part of this conversation. Lisa Stuckey said that they had brainstorming sessions in these meetings and the SROs is one area in which they need to proceed cautiously. Valerie Faushee pointed out a couple of errors in the draft minutes. The SROs were funded by a COPS grant {page 1 of August 24t" minutes). Also, the SRO is at McDougle Middle and not Carrboro Elementary. Commissioner Carey referred to the list of items that are the subject of the collaboration discussion between the school boards. He said that when he read the list of ten items in the minutes, he wandered if the "plan" means more thinking (page 4 of attachment 1 a). John Link said that these are items that are either being planned now or planned far a target date. They will all be planned. Libbie Hough said that what seems to be happening is that as each issue is brought up, they are being discussed by the chairs and vice-chairs and also at the staff level concurrently to see about the feasibility of implementation. She said that they have not gotten beyond number four on this list. Elizabeth Carter said that Libbie Hough is new as a Chair and that they have gotten as far as the after school programming. Some of their funding for after school programming is supposed to run out. She said that this needs immediate attention. Libbie Hough said that this is not an exhaustive list because originally they came up with 20 items and pared it down to ten in order to be able to tackle these in the next year. Elizabeth Carter said that the last time they met at a joint school board meeting with the BOCC they said that they did not feel that they got enough commitment from the Board of County Commissioners and they have talked about this. They want to be collaborative with the other school board but also with the Board of County Commissioners and wish to know how they can be sure they are moving in the right direction. John Link said that they were talking about areas that are important to school function that can be accomplished through contract between the Department of Public Health, Department of Social Services, law enforcement agencies and the school systems separate and apart from the per pupil appropriation. Commissioner Gordon asked for an elaboration collaborate. Elizabeth Carter said that they did and they did not get into the dollar amounts. on the cost implications of the list of ten ways to not get that far. The plan is about the feasibility Commissioner Gordon made reference to "Joint opportunities for professional development" and asked if this would cost anything extra. Shirley Carraway said that there is a possibility that it would not cost anything extra. It depends on the type of professional development. Commissioner Gordon said that she thought she heard both chairs talk about the pace and the resources, and she was trying to figure out if uncertainty of resources was affecting the pace. Neil Pedersen said that it varies from item to item and there are costs associated with some of these, and if additional funding is not received or the resources are not reprioritized, then they would not be able to do them. Number two is an example of this -Coordinated implementation of middle college program and/or more extensive dual enrollment programs with local community colleges, taking advantage of Durham Tech's Orange County campus to the greatest extent possible. He made reference to number three and said that they agreed philosophically, and they would have to save seats and there would be transportation costs associated with this. Number three is "Measurable opportunities far students in each district to participate in programs in the other district that are not now currently available to them; e.g. CHCCS AP courses, OCS vocational courses, OCS IB program." Commissioner Carey asked if they have had enough discussions with Durham Tech to see what the middle college program would look like. Neil Pedersen said that they did administratively. He said that they are envisioning a model similar to Guilford Community College. Commissioner Carey said that he is excited about this model, but a lot of funding of that program came through existing sources. When he saw the list, he thought that planning meant that it would be implemented, but that is not the case. He thinks the direction is good and the communication is goad and should continue. He would like to keep the process moving forward. Commissioner Halkiotis made reference to Guilford Community College and said that Orange County has a tendency to look at something and then not do anything far ten years. He said that if Durham can get something cranked up in a year and a half, then certainly Orange County can. He said that the University probably has some empty classrooms and can be involved also. North Carolina Central might also be interested in doing something. He wants to see all the costs involved. Chair Jacobs said that there is another collaboration meeting on October 4t" and they can talk about this. Chair Jacobs said that he heard Barbara Baker from Durham Tech say that she thought there was agreement to have between 100-150 students and start it a year earlier than originally projected. Chair Jacobs said that when the two Commissioners and the Manager have lunch with Dr. Phail Wynn, they should continue to encourage the cooperation. Commissioner Gordon said that this is a goad list of collaboration items and she would agree that the school boards should pick the top ones and prioritize. She said that the main thing is that there is measurable forward progress and that something actually happens within a finite time span. She hopes there will be progress to report at the next joint meeting. Commissioner Halkiotis said that the County Commissioners had a visitor at the regular meeting last week that accused them of not fostering and promoting collaboration, but rather being in collusion. He thinks it is wonderful that the two school systems are already talking and meeting. He does not think there is collusion. b. Educational Excellence Update John Link said that after the public hearings last fall on the potential impacts of merging the two school systems, the County Commissioners had a work session where they identified three areas to further examine prior to revisiting the issue of merger ar equitable funding. One of those was collaboration. The second one was educational excellence, and the third was school efficiency. This second issue has involved the UNC School of Education. The group is headed by Dr. Madeline Grumet, and they are examining the educational programming and resources provided by both school systems. This scope of work is described in attachment 1 b. The report on this will be ready by the end of November. Shirley Carraway said that they met with Dr. Grumet and her staff and they were going to move into the schools and go through some assessment documents as they put together the report. This was in August, and she has not had any contact with them since that time. Chair Jacobs suggested that Shirley Carraway call Dr. Grumet to ratify the schedule. Neil Pedersen said that they were in the same meeting and Dr. Grumet was going to meet with each principal individually to explain the protocol, and then she was going to send teams to the schools. He has notified the principals of the visits, and he has not heard from Dr. Grumet since. Commissioner Halkiotis said that this report is supposed to come back in November and he asked John Link to contact Dr. Grumet to make sure they are still on schedule. c. School Efficiency Study (Orange County Major Issue) John Link said that the third area the County Commissioners discussed was school efficiency. In this case, it is the operations of the schools, which includes everything from copier leases to utility costs. He met with the two school superintendents in August and they thought it would be a good idea to confirm what has already been accomplished in terms of efficiency over the last several years, which is shown in the summary. John Link said that they also had a chance to talk with Bob Segal -Chair Jacobs, Commissioner Halkiotis, and other County staff were involved. Bob Segal was in attendance and John Link said that he has helped the County and the school systems through the years with efficiency. The Board of County Commissioners talked about this last week and agreed that it would be a good idea for Bob Segal to examine the County and the two school systems. Commissioner Halkiotis said that Bob Segal is very frugal and he looks to find ways of saving money. Commissioner Carey made reference to his comments during the Board of County Commissioners' meeting and said that it would be good to go beyond the savings issue and provide information to the Board that might be used to help understand the two school systems. He said that the Board will need this, and Mr. Segal mayor may not agree to provide this. The other thing that is important to him is to have the result of Mr. Segal's work by the end of the year. Commissioner Gordon asked Bob Segal to came forward and comment. Bob Segal distributed some brochures to describe his company. He said that his firm is the only CPA firm in North Carolina dedicated exclusively to non-personnel expense reduction and revenue enhancement consulting. They work with about 20 school districts across the state and 50 county governments to improve their cash flow. The firm consists of three CPAs. Bab Segal said that they have never been asked by County Commissioners and school boards to try to do collaborative purchasing, but they have consolidated purchasing within county government. There are opportunities to save money by collaborating purchases. Some examples of volume driven purchases include copier services, cell phone minutes, etc. He is willing to look at this to see if there is a savings. Regarding the time, he does not know how long it will take. They do have a plan of action and they are willing to work with the three organizations. Chair Jacobs said that the Board of County Commissioners will be responsible with negotiating a contract and he asked if the school boards were willing to work with the County and Mr. Segal on this. AI Hartkopf said that he would be very happy to work with Bob Segal on this. He asked about the timing. Bob Segal said that it depends on what they find. He said that they will need to see all invoices paid over the last year. He said that it would be nice to have three files of what was purchased. Elizabeth Carter said that her board's procedure would be to have this as an agenda item before they commit to this. Bob Segal said that he would be happy to attend their meeting. Dennis Whitling asked if they deal with computer purchases and Bob Segal said no because it is a highly technical and qualitative issue. Commissioner Halkiotis said that there has been a lot of snake oil salespeople trying to get school boards to do things to save money {i.e., contracts with cola companies). He said that the County Commissioners are not asking Bob Segal to do this kind of service. John Link said that it would also be interesting to look at banking services, because all three entities share the same bank. Lisa Stuckey said that she would like Mr. Segal to address the issue of who would be in charge and how the contracts would be configured. Bob Segal said that it would be easier to have three separate contracts with the same terms and conditions. Lisa Stuckey was talking about contracts between the vendor and the entities. Bob Segal said that it would have to be three separate contracts, but they would need to have the same pricing. There can be a joint RFP. AI Hartkopf said that this proposal looks prudent and measured and he supports this. The Orange County School Board agreed to move forward. Chair Jacobs said that the Board of County Commissioners will try and have this back on the agenda in October. Neil Pedersen said that he came across a good example last week where a school system had jointly purchased the Nextel walkie-talkie phones with the town government. There was cost savings and instant communications between the entities (law enforcement, transportation, and emergency). d. Middle School #3 (OCS Major Issue} Libbie Hough referred to a copy of a PowerPoint presentation from the architect outlining areas of increased cost, which also compares costs for Cedar Ridge three years ago and today. There is also a letter from Shirley Carraway dated May 14t" addressing the debt issue of Cedar Ridge. She said that with the current construct they have for paying off the debt to Cedar Ridge, it ties their hands for the next seven years as they try to pay off this debt. She acknowledged that the Orange County School Board had requested this arrangement several years ago. She said that they were caught between a rock and a hard place. There is also a letter relating to the current fund balance situation. They plan to use the reserves to deal with start-up costs for middle school #3 as well as take care of some facility needs at the other two middle schools. Commissioner Gordon made reference to sharing costs between the Orange County West Ten Soccer Center and asked about the proposed cast split. Libbie Hough said that they will get to that later on. Commissioner Gordon made reference to page two and the 400-meter track and athletic stadium. She asked if it would have bleachers. Libbie Hough said that there would be bleachers an one side and this would be a multi-use facility for football and soccer. Commissioner Carey verified that the net overage is $2,672,800 aver the preliminary budget. Chair Jacobs said that the total estimated cost would be $21,522,800, including the estimated savings. He pointed out that this adds up to $175 per square foot. This does not include many factors such as furniture, land, and equipment, etc. He asked that all of that be backed out so the County Commissioners can compare the cost per square foot of construction. Liz Brown arrived at 9:05 p.m. Randy Copeland asked about the purchase of the two properties and said that they only needed 41 acres. He said that the schaol system purchased two sites of 67 acres. He asked about the process for refunding the money as the County purchases the 26 acres back. Geof Gledhill said that the plan he has talked about with the school system attorney is that they would propose that the County might purchase from the school system a conservation easement that would provide a credit to the budget for this school. There is no way, with the existing land use regulations, that the school system can Canvey the land to Orange County, because it would be contrary to the special use permit. He said that every square inch of the 67 acres is necessary to develop the school on this property. The other way is by moving a significant amount of the impervious surface associated with the roads to the West Ten Soccer Center. Chair Jacobs said that the Board of County Commissioners has not discussed this and Geof Gledhill said that the school board has not either. Geof Gledhill said that he and Mr. Parker, the school system's attorney, would be collaborating on putting a package together for both boards. He does not think it is necessary for money to change hands. Commissioner Gordon said that this is new to her and Geof Gledhill said that this was one of the conditions of the special use permit. Commissioner Gordon had thought that there might be a passibility of building another elementary school on this site. Geof Gledhill said that the only way additional development can occur on the 67 acres is through the approval of and the funding of a significant detention pond to handle storm water from impervious surface. This is not in the plan or the budget at this time. Libbie Hough said that they were surprised too. Commissioner Halkiotis said that impervious surface issues need to be addressed with each new school in the County. AI Hartkopf asked if there was any information about getting water to the middle school. Chair Jacobs said that they are working with Mebane and Geof Gledhill said that it depends on the funding to construct it. The contract is in place for Mebane to provide the service, but Mebane is not paying far the extension of the system. Commissioner Halkiotis said that over the past three years there have been several meetings with Mebane and they have been very receptive and cooperative with this. Libbie Hough brought up the issue of smart growth principles and how they can implement these in the middle school. Specifically, the natural day lighting feature is an important sustainable system far the model. With the construction costs being estimated at $2.7 million over, this could be one of the first things to go. They want to protect this and other smart growth principles. This is the main component of the cast overrun. Chair Jacobs said that on October 25th the County Commissioners will have a work session on capital spending, and they will have a clearer idea of how they can respond in the short term and long term with regard to capital spending. John Link said that they already have in place the ability to sell bonds or to borrow money far all major projects based on the construction standard costs on the books. He suggested that the OCS look at its capital schedule for all projects. One of the issues is when the school system would have to have the last million or the last two million, because this will tie in with the schedule for debt service beyond what they have scheduled now. They need to talk about the schedule of expenses with these two projects (middle school #3 and high school #3). He said that there may be a state-wide referendum for school construction and this might not be until next fall. He is not very optimistic about it, but it is a possibility. He said that it would be helpful to speak in specifics as to exactly when the money is needed for both projects. Brenda Stephens said that their fund balance is the only funding source for major start-up costs for middle school #3. She asked if there was another funding source that the County could find. She said that they dipped into their fund balance already this year, which lowered it significantly. Chair Jacobs said that it would be useful to see an estimate of the start-up costs e. High School #3 (CHCCS Major Issue) Elizabeth Carter said that Neil Pedersen will bring forth some of their concerns about the third high school. They will also come in above budget for this school. Neil Pedersen said that the memo from Steve Scroggs and him to John Link is attachment 1 e. He made reference to the third page. There was a detailed presentation by Steve Scroggs to the Board of County Commissioners already. Neil Pedersen said that they did not discuss financials at the last meeting. Based an estimated costs, they are $4.5 million over the budget. The budget did not include some of the athletic fields. The school board reviewed several options and they did not believe that they could reduce the scope of the school. There are two options of cost reductions. In option 1, they brought in money from the other capital budget line and value engineered some itemized reductions. Other than that, the entire project remains intact. He said that they have 7,000 square feet over what was programmed because of the plan to go from 800 to 1,200 students. Option 2 would delay the construction of the auditorium and choral and band room, and build them in phase 2. This is not acceptable. In this option, they would build a general purpose room that would eventually became the wrestling room. This would leave them with a shortfall of $1,897,491. Neil Pedersen said that he agrees that they are faced with the same difficulties as the County and the OCS. The high school is tied to SAPFO and time is of the essence. They are still working towards an opening date of 2007. Commissioner Halkiotis said that no one envisioned that the construction costs would be increasing so much but they have, due to increases in the costs of materials like steel and concrete. He suggested that the Board of County Commissioners ask the Manager, two superintendents, two school board chairs, and the Board of County Commissioners' Chair to serve on a small group to meet about how things can be scheduled when the money will actually be needed. Chair Jacobs said that they have been meeting regularly and after the Board has its capital spending work session, then one of the collaboration meetings could be used to discuss this. Neil Pedersen said that he wanted to clarify his view of start-up casts. He said that sometimes i1 sounds like start-up casts and one-time costs are synonymous, but this is not accurate. He said that one-time costs are included in the capital budget. The start-up costs that are a problem for them are the additional positions that are typically locally funded when starting up a new school. Libbie Hough said that they have both kinds of casts too and bath are a concern for them too The meeting was adjourned at 9:45 p.m. 2. CountylOCS/CHCCS Informational Reports The written reports were not discussed, and were just provided as information a. 2004-05 Adopted School Budgets b. 20t" Day Student Membership for 2004-05 c. Update on Economic Development Advances d. School Fund Balance Policy e. 2004-14 School CIPs and Orange County Debt Issuance Schedule Barry Jacobs, Chair Donna S. Baker Clerk to the Board