HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20040426APPROVED 06/23/2004 MINUTES
WORK SESSION
ORANGE COUNTY COMMISSIONERS
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION
APRIL 26, 2004
7:30 p.m.
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a joint session with the Chapel Hill-
Carrboro Board of Education and the Orange County Board of Education on Monday, April 26,
2004 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Barry Jacobs and Commissioners
Margaret Brown, Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordon, and Stephen Halkiotis
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill, Sean Borhanian
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County
Managers Rod Visser and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker (All other staff members will be
identified appropriately below)
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Keith
Cook, Vice-Chair Brenda Stephens and Board Members Delores Simpson, Libbie Hough,
Randy Copeland and Dana Thompson. Superintendent Shirley Carraway was also present.
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS
PRESENT: Chair Elizabeth Carter, Vice-Chair Lisa Stuckey and Board Members Valerie
Foushee, Nicholas M. Didow, Jamezetta Bedford, and Mike Kelley. Superintendent Neil
Pedersen was also present.
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS
ABSENT: Edward Sechrest
Andy Sachs from the Dispute Settlement Center opened the meeting and gave remarks.
Chair Jacobs welcomed everyone and asked them to introduce themselves, as there were
several new school board members.
Andy Sachs asked everyone to introduce themselves and to name the high school that they
graduated from. He then went over the desired outcomes and proposed ground rules far the
meeting.
Desired Outcomes
• Feedback from County Commissioners on School Boards' recent efforts at collaboration.
• Shared understanding of status of proposed Educational Excellence Task Force.
• Shared understanding of status of OCS Middle School #3.
• Joint mechanism for moving forward on schools' capital needs.
• Joint mechanism for addressing additional items identified by Chairs and Staff as needing
joint attention by the three boards.
Proposed Ground Rules
• One speaker at a time.
• Stick to task and topic.
• Listen attentively to the speaker.
• Share the floor.
Update on School Boards' most recent collaboration:
Brief overview of process planning
Chair Jacobs said that the first meeting was on January 27th. They met two times as three
boards and then the school boards met by themselves. Then everyone came back to plan this
meeting. The thrust was to establish a framework of what to accomplish with the discussions of
collaboration between the two school systems. There was a fair amount of time expressing
opinions. There is a lot of baggage and they talked about those things. They agreed that they
would all pay for the services of Andy Sachs, regardless of whether the County Commissioners
were at the meetings in particular. They agreed that it was better far the school boards to have
the opportunity to have a facilitated meeting without the County Commissioners there.
2. Process and Result (Elizabeth Carter and Keith Cook}.
Elizabeth Carter, Chair of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Board of Education, thanked the Board of
County Commissioners for supporting them and allowing them a platform and to the Orange
County schools for joining them. She thanked Andy Sachs far tolerating them.
Elizabeth Carter said that the three leaders of the three boards came up with a definition for
collaboration, which is: "In good faith, communicating, working together, and generating results
across the school districts to enhance opportunities for students in each district andlor to
improve efficiencies within operations."
The leadership also came up with an initial set of 18cross-district collaboration items. They
were trying to develop a shared sense of what collaboration was in order to ensure mutual
accountability. The two school boards met twice -March 3`d and 22"d, and they shared a meal
and participated in activities to get to know each other as people. They agreed to a set of
ground rules. In the end, they had consensus to collaborate on 15 areas and commitment to
meet again and consider additional areas of collaboration and to set a timeline far
implementation.
Keith Cook, Chair of the Orange County Board of Education, said that at the second meeting on
March 22"d, they prioritized the areas of collaboration to see if there were any additional items.
Ten additional items were considered, and the two boards decided on 21 areas of cross-district
collaboration. They agreed on an implementation period of five years or lesson ten of the
prioritized items. They categorized the items as follows (handout incorporated as reference):
Category A (relatively easy to do} - 1, 6, 8
Category B (things they control with a lot of planning} - 2 and 3
Category C (big ticket items) - 4, 5, and 10
Category D (huge payoffs down the road} - 7 and 9
He said that they agreed that all 21 items are important and should be included in the long term
planning. In the near future, they need to discuss 4, 5, 7, 9, and 10 as it relates to possible
funding.
Elizabeth Carter thanked John Link and Rod Visser for being at each of their meetings with the
leaders.
Libbie Hough said that she wants to hear more about the middle school athletic conference.
Nick Didow said that this is an old idea that he and Keith Cook explored. They recognized that
Orange County, between the two school districts, had a growing number of middle schools and
the two school boards have the authority to establish the conferences. They also recognize that
some of the travel in the current conference configuration is excessive and an imposition in the
evenings on school nights. The idea was raised that maybe it was time to move forward with an
Orange County middle school athletic conference.
Elizabeth Carter said that Commissioner Halkiotis recommended not including transportation
even though that was one of the 21 original items. They wanted to take it further though and
keep in touch during inclement weather. They also talked about the pre-K issue and sharing of
transportation there.
Andy Sachs asked the Board of County Commissioners about the efforts of collaboration.
Commissioner Carey asked about the planning and implementation. Elizabeth Carter said that
a lot of thought went into this and they da not have to feel that everything they did was moving
in the right direction. They want to get a sense that they are beginning to collaborate.
Commissioner Carey said that anyone would say that it is good to collaborate and, as far as he
is concerned, this is a step in the right direction, and the Board of County Commissioners has
encouraged the two school boards to do this. It does not surprise him that the two school
systems have a lot in common. The one uncommon thread is the funding.
Commissioner Gordon asked about SRO's (Student Resource Officers}. She would like to
know more about this and how they would conceptualize the additional funding from the Board
of County Commissioners.
Keith Coak said that on both school boards it is a need and a priority. The school boards saw it
as working in the same area as nurses; that if there were a way to do it outside of the per-pupil
allocation, outside of the normal budget, it would be good. They also talked about continuing to
look at nurses, psychiatrists, and social workers and funding them without looking at the per-
pupil allocation.
Elizabeth Carter said that a lot of times these positions are out of the health department and
they thought the positions would come under the same umbrella and have them allocated to the
school sites.
Commissioner Gordon asked about number 3 on page 5 and measurable opportunities for
students in each district. She asked what mechanisms would be used to accomplish this.
Elizabeth Carter said that with the AP courses at Chapel Hill High and East Chapel Hill High
currently as they are, they struggle with space and growth now. Regarding the International
Baccalaureate program in Orange County, they found out that you have to be attending the
school where the I B program is located. They thought about letting students transfer to Cedar
Ridge High School to participate in this program. Also, if OCS students would want to attend
AP courses in the CHCCS system, then they would only have to travel to take the courses and
would not have to transfer.
Commissioner Gordon asked if the Orange County Schools would accept transfers between
Cedar Ridge High School and Orange High School. Keith Cook said that they have students
traveling back and forth from OHS and CRHS now. He said that they want staff to look at it and
see what is being done and how many students are taking advantage of this opportunity.
Commissioner Halkiatis said that for the past two years there have been extremely difficult
weather conditions and people are up and making calls to each other all through the night. The
two school systems have been doing this kind of collaboration for a long time. He said that this
past Friday he and Steve Scroggs met with the two transportation directors to start discussing
alternative fuel -bio-diesel, propane, solar-powered and wind-powered school buses. They
decided to recommend to both superintendents that they endorse the creation of a task force
that would bring together people from Chapel Hill and Carrboro Public Works, Orange County's
Dave Stancil, Commission for the Environment, and others that are interested. He said that, as
of Friday, state contract diesel fuel was $1.06 per gallon and state contract bio-diesel fuel was
$1.51 per gallon.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that the idea of collaboration is very exciting. He would like to
bring Durham Tech to the table to do something meaningful like a middle college with bath
school systems. He said that both school systems could save money by looking at an
alternative school to meet the educational needs of students that do not do well in traditional
settings. He said that it was a whale lot less expensive to spend money educating a child than it
is keeping someone in prison. He said that collaboration would go a long way to show people
that they are all committed to helping kids. This County puts up almost 50°~ of its budget to the
publlC Schools.
Andy Sachs asked Chair Jacobs to speak about the planning.
Chair Jacobs said that part of what they discussed was to change the way they usually sit at
these meetings because they want to have a sense that they are all in this as partners and no
one is pulling rank on anybody else.
Chair Jacobs said that he was interested in the middle college idea and Maria Palmer from the
State Board of Education suggested it. He was also interested in the middle school athletic
conference.
Chair Jacobs said that he was interested in seeing items 9 and 7 (Early Childhood Programs
and the new paradigm}. They are listed as way down the road and also in the top ten. He
wonders haw they can be high in the list of priorities, but in the category of things not in the near
future.
Keith Coak said that creating more early childhood programs was something that both school
systems saw as very important, but they also realize that this will take some time to implement.
Next year a committee will be formed to look at this.
Elizabeth Carter said that some of the conversation was related to a centrally located early
childhood center. The question was where a facility could be located so that it would be
accessible to the parents and still be on public transportation. They deferred looking it at this at
this time so that they could review the logistics of locating the facility, and parent involvement
related to transportation.
Shirley Carraway said that a lot of kids are not being served and the issue is how to plan for this
and make it accessible for parents. She said that the planning for eight out of ten items on the
sheet is what they will be doing soon. They just could not do this item right now.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that two months ago Shirley Carraway did a presentation on the
No Child Left Behind data. He said that this was the first time that the oneness of all children in
this County came together for him. He said that schools in both systems have the same issues
with Na Child Left Behind and being smacked down far missing one tiny piece. He said that it
was one giant family with different looks and shapes, but the same. This is significant.
3. Q&A and Feedback from BOCC to School Boards
Elizabeth Carter said that the leaders talked about getting a sanction from the three boards for
this leadership group to continue in the mode to meet and to help dispel some of the negative
feelings. This group would come together regularly to be the vehicle between the three boards
so that there are no misunderstandings.
In answer to a question by Andy Sachs, Elizabeth Carter said that they could include the vice-
chairs and the superintendents, as well as the chairs.
Commissioner Carey said that there is no reason that this group should not meet.
Andy Sachs asked if the Vice-Chairs were interested in attending these collaborative meetings.
Commissioner Brown said that she would have to think about this.
Nick Didow asked if the Orange County side has been kept abreast of all of the meetings.
Elizabeth Carter said that they have kept good notes. Nick Didow said that he is eager that the
productive steps are being shared with the Board of County Commissioners.
Chair Jacobs said that the discussions were frank and productive but they did not get into
details of what the collaborations would be about other than to set out suggestions that are on
the list.
Commissioner Gordon said that she would like to see the complete minutes or the facilitator's
notes as they are generated. Chair Jacobs said that they were sent as summaries in the
Manager's memo.
Elizabeth Carter said that Andy Sachs struggled with whether he needed to be part of this
meeting and she is hoping that after tonight that they can move forward without a facilitator.
She said that she hoped that they could have civil conversations.
Dana Thompson said that she hears that everyone would like to move forward with
representatives from both boards. She wants to hear more about haw the CHCCS was kept
informed during the process. She would like to have a definite and deliberate process so that
the boards know when a meeting is coming up and can have discussions and provide feedback.
She did not know about the preliminary meetings until very shortly before they met as joint
boards. She appreciates the good work that was done.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that there is nothing wrong with having someone like Andy Sachs
to come in because they need the objectivity.
Mutual Updates:
Board of Countv Commissioners: Proposed Educational Excellence Work Group
Chair Jacobs introduced this item. He said that the Board of County Commissioners had afour-
pronged approach to merger: encourage the school boards to work on collaboration; look at
operational efficiencies (staff is still looking into this); ask staff to research a Countywide school
district tax; and farm the educational excellence work group comprised of educational experts.
Commissioner Brown said that it was interesting in farming the group. They met twice and the
members were John Link, Commissioner Halkiotis, Commissioner Brown, Madeline Grumet,
George Noblit, Shirley Carraway, Nettie Collins Hart, John Dornan, and President William
Friday.
Commissioner Brown said that Madeline Grumet was interested in being a project leader and
working with Dr. Noblit and the school system staffs and selected consultants from UNC's
School of Education. The timeline would be from May -November.
Commissioner Halkiotis said at the first meeting, John Dornan had studies and will forward them
to the group. They have looked at studies of mergers from around the state and they are
looking at a different kind of efficiency. He said that John Dornan has been studying schools for
many years and this is a valuable resource.
Chair Jacobs added that one of the outgrowths of the first or second meeting on collaboration
was to suggest including the superintendents in this educational excellence work group.
Commissioner Brown said that Shirley Carraway came and Nellie Collins Hart came from the
CHCCS.
Jahn Link said that Dr. Grumet and Dr. Noblit would be providing a proposal to them about the
School of Education using their resources to pursue the comparison that Shirley Carraway and
Neil Pedersen did last year - the potential impacts of merger.
Commissioner Brown said that Drs. Grumet and Noblit had planned on attending this evening
but could not because of illness.
Commissioner Gordan asked if this was going to come back to the Board of County
Commissioners to look at the charge and composition. Jahn Link said it should be back by May
18th at the earliest.
Orange Countv Schools: Middle school #3
Shirley Carraway said that the school board listed various items that it would like to have
conversation about with the Board of County Commissioners:
^ Joint use and co-location of property adjacent to the school site and the development
of this and that it would not delay the movement of the school
^ Whether there would be additional funds for startup casts far this school and how
they would be accessed
^ Smart growth principles and whether they would be applied (financial considerations)
^ Their seeking to ensure that the construction cost of this school would be within the
budget
^ #3 is designed based on the design of Smith Middle School and they had to
eliminate some of the specialized systems, make modifications in the floor plans, and
to use other cost control strategies. The Orange County Schools board discussed
the possibility of inflationary costs that might have occurred because of the
timeframe. They do not want to have to take other things away from the site design.
Chair Jacobs said that they discussed at agenda review today hiring the same firm to design the
adjoining site that will facilitate co-location. They also discussed that it might be useful to have
the group that was working on the middle school that included Commissioner Carey meet again
because same of the issues about co-location are yet to be resolved. There have been
difficulties with co-location in the past. The Board has a proposal for moving forward.
Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools: Need for joint mechanism for moving forward
on meeting schools' capital needs.
Neil Pedersen said that the CHCCS chose to focus on the Capital Investment Plan (CIP). They
would like to mutually move forward with the projects that are critical for the future facility needs
for the students. They are concerned that a pattern has emerged that is leading to some delays
in certain projects. They would like to work cooperatively to overcome the logjam. He
understands that the Board of County Commissioners has considered revamping its process far
reviewing capital requests from the schools and other County agencies. However, he said that
the school board had had little time to work on the CHCCS Capital Investment Plan request due
to the delay in finalizing the CIP process this year. If the CIP process is still in limbo this year,
then they would ask the Board to approve the 2004-04 CIP projects in their CIP (mobile
classrooms are critical} and, if the CIP process is still changing, then they would ask that the
changes be made by the fall so that they could get back on a workable schedule. It has been
difficult because the Commissioners have not adapted a formal CIP the last two years.
They have three projects in need of immediate attention. The first is High School #3, and that
involves approving addendum B and finalizing the $30 million budget that was previously
established for the third high school. The second is to approve the plan for the Twin Creeks
project, including the entire site. They would like this to be done prior to the Board's summer
break. They are projecting an opening date for elementary school #10 of 2007 and they need to
move forward with approval for the school site at Twin Creeks. There is also a need to
reconvene the committee the Board of County Commissioners recommended to identify future
school sites. The committee was convened a year ago and they struggled to find sites. The
ones they have identified are slowly being procured by others. He asked for the Board's
assistance in getting the committee moving forward.
Finally, he asked that the Board move forward with the SAPFO decisions. He knows that they
are competing with scarce time and resources, but they do see projects slipping.
Chair Jacobs said that SAPFO is on the agenda far May 4t". The future sites will be up before
the Assembly of Governments on April 29t". He suggested a letter from the two superintendents
to the municipalities to give an additional nudge. Twin Creeks is in on the May 27t" work
session. Dave Stancil is working an a process to move the planning effort forward. There are
some issues that the County Commissioners have with the sprawl model for the school site. He
said that the Board is cognizant of the need for funding for future projects.
Chair Jacobs said that the CIP has fallen prey to the State budget and they had suspended the
process when this occurred and are moving back with a tiered approach. They thought this was
an appropriate time to look at their CIP process. Regarding the issue about high school #3, the
addendum was referred to Carrboro to comment within two regularly scheduled meetings
because some of the Aldermen had expressed concern about the smart growth issues.
Nick Didaw asked about the proposed educational excellence work group and what rate the
County Commissioners see the respective school boards playing in the charge and
composition. Commissioner Brown said that at this time it is only a proposal from the School of
Education and the Board of County Commissioners have not seen the proposal yet.
Ongoing Communication Across the Boards
Keith Coak said that they would like feedback on their five areas far middle school #3. He
asked haw they get this feedback from the Board of County Commissioners. He said that it was
discussed that the three boards meet three times a year and not have long times in between
each meeting.
Elizabeth Carter agreed about the regular meetings being more than twice a year. She said that
the meetings provide an opportunity to have their say and to keep the flow of information going.
Chair Jacobs said that they have 13 meetings scheduled in the next two months and it is
problematic to work through some of these issues and the only viable option is far the chairs,
vice-chairs, and staff to talk about some of these issues.
Libbie Hough said that, if this is going to take place with the chairs and vice-chairs, then the
communication needs to be kept open between the boards.
Chair Jacobs reiterated haw fortunate they are to have the abundant resources that they have
even though they struggle sometimes.
Keith Coak said that, prior to the budget being approved, there are items that they need to
address as far as SRO's, nurses, etc., and that both boards have talked about additional
funding far after-school programs. He said that numbers 4 and 5 are immediate needs for OCS.
He wants to talk about these prior to the budgets being approved.
Randy Copeland said that their thought behind the SRO's was that it could be an additional
piece outside of their budget. Maybe the Board could look at funding these through the Sheriff's
Department since it is far protection.
Chair Jacobs said that the Manager does not make his budget presentation until May 20t" and it
is too early to make any decision. The Board will take the comments under advisement.
Commissioner Halkiotis asked to keep Nick Waters' family in their prayers because he passed
away last week. He said that he cared about all of the children in the County.
Adjourn:
The meeting was adjourned at 9:30 p.m.
Barry Jacobs, Chair
Qonna S. Baker
Clerk to the Board