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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20030929APPROVED 2/3/2004 MINUTES WORK SESSION Orange County Commissioners Orange County Board of Education Chapel Hill-Carrboro Baard of Education September 29, 2003 7:30 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for regular session on Monday, September 29, 2003 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Margaret Brown and Commissioners Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordon, Stephen Halkiotis and Barry Jacobs COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill, Sean Borhanian COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Managers Rod Visser and Acting Deputy Clerk to the Board Evelyn Cecil (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below} ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Brenda Stephens, Vice- Chair Keith Cook and Board Members Delores Simpson, Libbie Hough, Randy Copeland, Betty Phelps-Davidson, Dana Thompson and Superintendent Shirley Carroway. CHAPEL HILL- CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Ualerie Foushee, Vice-Chair Gloria Foley, and Board Members Nicholas M. Didow, Elizabeth Carter, Lisa Stuckey, and Superintendent Neil Pedersen ABSENT: Maryanne Rosenman and Edward Sechrist 1. County1OCS1CHCCS DiscussionlPolicy Issues a. Analysis of Impacts of Potential School Merger -Report John Link said they had no presentation but would be glad to answer questions. Gloria Foley said that the Chair, Valerie Foushee, would be late. She referred to the purple folder and listed the items included in it. She went through several items of concern. Item 1: Quality Education. She said that both school boards were concerned about how a merger would divert attention from quality education. Item 2: Issue of Merger as Opposed to Equal Funding. They believe that there are ways that equalized funding can occur without merging. She made reference to the limits of County expenditures to 48.1 °lo and keeping school funding below the 50°~ range. Item 3: Is 17 Cents a True Cost? Item 4: Will CHCCS be Held Harmless? They will be opening new schools in the near future and this has an impact on funding. There is also an issue of staff salaries. Item 5: Central Office. This is currently in the unfunded category. Item 6: Student Reassignment. They project that there will be a much higher number of CHCCS students moving to Orange County schools. Item 7: Impact of Buffers. This presents an issue of potential long bus rides. There will also be pressure over time to open up the rural buffer. Item 8: Is Bigger Really Better? Item 9: Representative Governance. Public should have an opportunity for feedback in a reasonable way. Item 10: Control of Education. Commissioner Jacobs said that it is unfortunate that the school board continues to misrepresent the County Commissioners' position. The County Commissioners have repeatedly expressed that 48.1 % is a target and is not a cap or a limit. John Link said that the Board has exceeded 48.1 °~ every year. Commissioner Jacobs said that it is not a cap and it alarms peaple unnecessarily when people say that it is a cap. Commissioner Gordon asked what the CHCCS Board was expecting in terms of a response to the issues. Gloria Faley said that the most significant question is the effect of merger on quality of education and whether the issue of equalized funding is separate from the issue of merger. Commissioner Carey said that these are legitimate questians and he Gautioned all involved to be Gognizant of the fact that some questions cannot be answered. He agreed with Commissioner Jacobs about the 48.1 °~ not being a cap. He gave his perception on some of the questians asked by the CHCCS Board. Regarding quality of education, he asked any schaal board member to present information from a merged system where the quality of education went dawn. He has not seen any documented evidence of this. He said that in Orange County, there is a long and reputable history of providing the best quality education for our children. He said that this would not change in a merger. On the issue of merger versus equal funding, he submitted that the issue is social justice and civil rights inequities. He said that merger is a means to an end. This is his perception. Regarding the issue of the Central Office, both systems have asked for funding and the Board has said no and that there needs to be cooperation on one. Regarding student reassignment, he thinks that only the new school board can make that decision. Trying to estimate how many students would be bussed will only cause fear. On the issue of buffers and the rural buffer, he does not think that merger will affect it. He said that raising the issue will put fear in the people that have worked many years to put the rural buffer in place. He thinks this Gan be put to rest. Chair Brown said that the Board would likely look at these questions and get the Manager to see what can be answered and what cannot and bring it back. Gloria Faley said that there should be a study on mergers that have been successful. She suggested looking at the Charlotte-Mecklenburg, where there was a significant negative impact. She said that the rural buffer would affect redistricting. The school board may have no GhOICe. Chair Brown asked for comments from the Orange County Schools Keith Cook spoke about the Administration building. He said that the school boards do not agree on having just one building. Randy Copeland said that he was concerned that the Board might make a decision before answering all of the questions. Also, there are a number of equity issues. He said that Orange County is funded well compared to other counties. He challenged the Board to look at this hard before making a decision. Libbie Hough said that she has heard questions from parents about what would happen to the new schools in the pipeline if there was merger. John Link said that the report assumes that all projects in the pipeline would be addressed. Libbie Hough would like to hear haw equity can be achieved, including Capital, by other means besides merger. Betty Tom Phelps Davidson said that whether we merge or not, we are all on the table. She would like to know how many constituents will be impacted by merger. She agrees with Commissioner Carey on what the real issue is -social injustice and civil rights. She applauds the efforts to try and close the funding gap. She does not know the best way to achieve this. Commissioner Gordon asked when answers would be forthcoming from the staff. John Link said that the answers should be ready by the work session in November. He could not speak for the information from the school superintendents. Superintendent Pedersen said that they could probably get an answer within the next couple of weeks. Superintendent Carraway said that some questions could be answered quickly and same would take more time. For example, it would be difficult to get the information regarding students in Orange County not taking the SAT. This will take a long time. They would also have difficulty determining the percentage of students that might be affected in a merger. Regarding the redistricting question, someone would have to create this information and they would not have an answer to this. John Link said that they could commit to having some answers by the public hearings and others would be ready by November 21St Commissioner Jacobs said that he was going to propose something on Wednesday that would give another opportunity for the public to digest and comment. Regarding the rural buffer, he said that the only threats to the rural buffer in recent times has been the CHCCS proposing schools in the rural buffer. He challenged the two school boards to start sharing and cooperating together. He challenged both school boards to some self-examination. Commissioner Halkiatis said that Commissioner Carey brought forth a recommendation for a Commissioners' goal at the retreat in January, and now everyone thinks that there is a rush to merge both school systems. This is only a goal to generate an interesting discussion. He is still committed to listening to all issues. He voted on a goal, and did not vote to merge the two school systems. Gloria Foley said that she appreciates Commissioner Jacobs' proposal far additional public comment. Regarding collaboration, she said that over the last few years, bath school systems have had a number of conversations regarding collaboration and alternate schools and they have had discussions with the Institute of Government about the definition of a collaborative model. Nicholas Didow said that his sense is that the Board is several weeks into accumulating the facts. He asked if the County Commissioners would object to the school boards carefully reviewing the facts and information and making reasonable judgments and recommendations about what it means. Chair Brown said that the school boards could do whatever they want. b. New Schaal Facility Development • OCS Middle School #3 Libbie Haugh said that the question came up at a meeting of the Schools and Land Use Councils regarding the third middle school and how the entire tract of land would be used in a collaborative effort. They want to include the community in the discussion. Same ideas are a soccer field and a community library. The other question relates to the purchase of land. They are hoping that it would not be coming out of the $18 million designated for the school. Chair Brown said that the County Commissioners could get back to them on this Libbie Hough said that the other question was related to smart growth. She asked if OCS could qualify far a similar situation as the CHCCS third high school. They are interested in having the safest and most environmental friendly school possible. Commissioner Gordon said that the County Commissioners have not completely resolved the question of what smart growth principles are. The question for CHCCS is what the $2.2 million would be used far. She thinks that smart growth principles should be used far all schools in the County. ^ CHCCS High School #3 Superintendent Pedersen said that there were no questions far the County Commissioners at this time. In terms of an update, there has been an advisory committee formed with representation from various governmental bodies, including the County Commissioners, and staff members. They have had a couple of meetings. They are negotiating with the landowners, but there has not been any land acquired yet. Sail borings have begun on the properties and the design work continues. c. Smart Growth Policies Chair Brown said that she and Commissioner Jacobs are working on this with the CHCCS school system . Commissioner Gordon said that this was a targeted issue with high school #3, but she has heard some intentions for all schools. She said that if this is so, the Orange County School Board should be included in the discussions. She would like the Board to take under advisement the question of how these smart growth principles are going to be used in the future far the schools and the formal role of the two school boards interacting with the County Commissioners. d. School Policies on Suspensions and Truancy Commissioner Carey said that he asked for this to be put on the agenda far informational purposes. He made it clear that this is in no way an attempt to get involved in the policy-making decision related to suspensions and truancy. He said that one of his roles is to co-chair the Orange-Chatham Justice Partnership Council. This board has a mandated representation that includes school systems. He said that neither school system has had a representative at the meetings recently. This cauncil focuses on the needs of youth, and trying to prevent them from dropping through the system. He said that there is a level of frustration there because the cauncil does not see the teamwork that they feel is needed to keep students out of the criminal justice system. He asked bath school boards about their perception of this group and their rate on this council. Superintendent Carraway said that they generally have someone to participate in these meetings. At the last meeting, there were three people - Director of Students Services Kathy Hicks and two other people from Orange County Schools' Central Staff. Also, at their last leadership team meeting, they had representatives from the District Attorney's office to talk with them about the process so that they were sure they were following the process as outlined. This is a serious issue far Orange County Schools. Commissioner Carey said that he did not realize that there were Orange County School representatives at the meeting. He said that there was a lot of frustration in the meeting about the relationship with the schools. Commissioner Brown asked Superintendent Carraway to go through the number of Orange County Schools suspensions. Superintendent Carraway explained that it is a duplicated count in that the number includes each suspension and not necessarily each student. One student could have been suspended several times. Superintendent Pedersen echoed Superintendent Carraway's comments in that they are equally concerned about student attendance, truancy, and behavior in Schaal. He said that if there is a sense that they are not an board, they need to hear from this group. Susan Spalt served in this capacity and retired in June. They filled her position with Stephanie Willis and she may not be aware of the meetings. He asked that there be contact with his office about the schedule of the next few meetings. He said that they did briefly survey their family specialists about how they perceive the relationship with juvenile justice. The response was very positive. Commissioner Carey said that there is a disconnection here somewhere and the only way to address it is by communication. He said that he would make sure CHCCS gets the information about future meetings. He pointed out Isabel Geffner and asked her to make any comments. Isabel Geffner is the Executive Director of the Community Backyard Organization. Their goal is to identify and keep kids who need services in our own County. There are a lot of gaps in services. She recognized Trish Randall with OCS and her work. She said that they did not have someone from the CHCCS. She said that schools are being asked to pick up mental health work in schools. She is hoping that Judge Buckner and other people will convene a smaller meeting of various agencies to try and figure out how to impact the legislature so that the kids at greatest risk are getting appropriate services. Commissioner Halkiotis said that it might be time again to convene a symposium on youth services. There has been money cut from youth services, but there have been many executions lately. He said that it is not cheaper to execute someone than to educate them. He said that the judges need to get behind Smart Start and mental health reform. Chair Brown said that she was extremely concerned about mental health reform and the issues involved with children in the schools. She wants to get together and find out exactly where we are going to be as the programs and funding disappears and the County takes on the responsibilities the State has put on it. She would like to pull together a small group to track this. Betty Tom Phelps Davidson said that Judge Devine has spoken about the need for keeping children in school and trying to reduce the numbers of suspensions. She said that there needs to be an alternative school in place far children with mental health and other concerns. Gloria Foley said that there is an alternative school in Chapel Hill that is working very well. She said that the High School Reform Committee has been discussing the issue of mental health. Chair Brawn asked for this information sa they could coordinate e. School Fund Balance Policy John Link said that the County Commissioners discussed the desirable level of fund balance for each school system during the budget work sessions. The present policy has OCS at 2.7°~ of expenditures and CHCCS at 5.5°l0 of expenditures. The policy has been in place since 1986. Commissioner Jacobs said that at the last budget season, there were large deviations from what the fund balances were and he asked about the purpose of the policy. He asked if the targets should be reexamined. If there are targets, they should be met. Dana Thompson would like to revisit the idea of how to set the fund balance. Within Orange County Schools, they depend an fund balance as they construct new schools and far startup casts. She would like to aim for a larger fund balance aver time. Superintendent Pedersen said that the County has a policy that says the fund balance should be 5.5°~ as a maximum. The school board has a policy of having a fund balance of 5.5°l0. They have slipped below this percentage for a number of the past years. He said that this has not caused any problems. They did reduce their contingency fund. Finance Director Ken Chavious said that the CHCCS since 1996 has only exceeded the 5.5°~ fund balance two times. They do not have the current year numbers yet. These numbers should be out in October. He said that in 1986 OCS was not building any buildings so there were no startup Casts. Commissioner Jacobs suggested a proposal that works for each school system instead of using an arbitrary target. Superintendent Pedersen said that the other issue with fund balance is how the money is used. For CHCCS, it is not used for one time expenses. For the past several years they have been carrying forward $1.5 million to fund ongoing expenses. (Topics of r"merest identified by CHCCS are addressed r"n item #9 on this agenda} 4. CountylOCS/CHCCS Informational Reports a. 2443-44 Adopted School Budgets b. 24t" Day Student Membership for 2443-44 Superintendent Pedersen said that the State had a good year and only missed by eight students. DPI was on target for the total number of students. Superintendent Carraway said that the projections from DPI far OCS were very close to the total membership as of the 20th day. Chair Brawn asked Superintendent Pedersen haw the other school faired with the opening of Rashkis. She asked if there was a good balance. Superintendent Pedersen said that there was a pretty good balance. Rashkis opened with about 420 (capacity of 600). Scroggs is of some concern because it has 640 students. This facility is overcrowded. The overcrowding at Seawell came down about 200 students. After a difficult redistricting process, there is same balance. There were eight mobile units added at the high schools. Chair Brown made reference to a letter from the neighborhoods adjacent to the high schools that said that the mobile units were not in keeping with the neighborhood. Superintendent Pedersen said that the letter he received was from a design committee in Chapel Hill. The mobile units were approved as part of the process. Commissioner Gordon asked if OCS had another report giving more information like CHCCS. Commissioner Halkiotis said that OCS probably does not have the money to print such a nice brochure. Superintendent Carraway said that she has not seen this information, but she will look at it and see if this information can be passed along to the County Commissioners. Commissioner Jacobs would like to look more closely at athletics and how many males and females participate and the spending per athlete based on male and female athletes. He would also like some information on where the college scholarships are being achieved by student athletes in the two systems. He would like to discuss this at the next joint meeting. Commissioner Jacobs asked about the third high school and what happened to the football facility that was going to be developed offsite, and if it was included in the $30 million. Valerie Foushee said that it was not included in the $27.8 or the $30 million at this time. The initial planning was to locate this facility offsite by upgrading another field. Superintendent Pedersen said that they are looking at the fields that will be there, but they do not envision a major football stadium. They do envision athletic fields there. They need to determine what events could not be held on this site and where they might be held. They would like to look at some alternatives that would allow the fields to be used 2417 with a particular type of turf. Chair Brown made reference to a comment that the high school football programs should be equivalent at all three high schools. She had someone ask her why this was such a driving force. She asked if one of the schools could emphasize women's sports. Lisa Stuckey sits as board liaison to the Chapel Hill High SGC and about a month ago the Athletic Director came and told them that, at present, there are an equal number of sports for boys and girls. This does not include cheerleading, because it is not considered a sport. Chapel Hill High just voted to fund women's golf. Chapel Hill High is on par in terms of women's sports. Gloria Foley distributed some smart growth information. She said that two other issues that the smart growth experts talked about were placing schools closer to denser populations and making sure that schools are on public transportation routes. Bath of these occur at the proposed third high school site. With no further items to address, a motion was made by Commissioner Halkiotis, seconded by Commissioner Jacobs to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m. VOTE: UNANIMOUS Margaret Brown, Chair Evelyn Cecil Acting Deputy Clerk