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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20030414APPROVED 05/20/2003 WORK SESSION Orange County Commissioners Orange County Board Of Education Chapel Hill-Carrbaro Board of Education April 14, 2003 7:30 - 9:30 p m Southern Human Services Center The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a Work Session on Monday, April 14, 2003 with the Orange County Board of Education and the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Board of Education at 7:30 p.m. in the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Margaret W. Brown, Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordon, Stephen Halkiotis and Barry Jacobs COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Manager Rod Visser, and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker {All other staff members will be identified appropriately below} ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Brenda Stephens, Vice- Chair Keith Cook and Board Members Delores Simpson, Libby Hough, Randy Copeland and Betty Phelps-Davidson, Dana Thompson. CHAPEL HILL- CARRBORO CITY SCHOOL BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Valerie Foushee, Vice-Chair Gloria Foley, and Board Members Nicholas M. Didow, Elizabeth Carter, Lisa Stuckey, Edward Sechrist, Maryanne Rosenman, and Superintendent Neil Pedersen NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE. Chair Brown asked everyone to introduce themselves. 1. County/OCSICHCCS DiscussionlPolicy Issues a. Chapel Hill Township Park and Educational Campus Update Environment and Resource Conservation Director Dave Stancil gave a presentation. He showed a map of the 193-acre campus that was purchased in 2001. The master plan work group began meeting last year to begin developing the master plan. Activities of the work group have included getting to know the site through tours and producing a document showing the challenges and opportunities. Also, members of the work group have been asked to provide them with a general sense of each community's needs. These needs have been incorporated into the planning phase. In the last couple of months, they have discussed the Joint Planning Area Agreement and the implications of this being in the transition area. They have also discussed Carrboro's Northern Transition Area study. They have broken up into two subcommittees. The goal is to refine the concept plan and then tie it together into a master plan. The group will hold a public forum in June before issuing the master plan report. Commissioner Gordon made reference to the environmental constraints and said that there are some intermittent streams in the area and if they are disturbed, they have to be re-vegetated. This makes the building envelopes a little different and adds more constraints. b. Process for and Commitment of Resources to School Merger Analysis John Link made reference to the hand out, the detailed school merger implication listing of elements to be pursued in examining the pros, cons, and other implications of potential merger of the two school systems. He said that the County staff is committed to providing as much information on each of the elements as passible. He explained what each of the colored items meant on the document. The topic tonight is what all parties can contribute to the merger issue. Commissioner Carey asked if the school boards had seen this document. John Link said that they met with the Superintendents and school staff and they discussed how to work together in responding to all of these elements. He hopes the school board members have seen the list of elements. Chair Brown asked John Link about the end product. John Link showed a school merger study done by Research Triangle Institute for Guilford County in 1985 and a smaller study done by Orange County in 1987. Both of the studies were good. He also showed two other studies done in Cleveland and Durham Counties that were not sa goad. If the County pursues consultants, then he thinks it would have to be something like RTI. He said that the staff is just trying to generate as much information as possible by the fall. He is comfortable doing this in-house, but if the boards want afull-blown analysis of merger, then the RTI example is one to look at. Valerie Foushee said that what is still vague is the time frame and the first status report in June. She said that it would be helpful far the school board to know at what paint these issues should be addressed to make the report timely. She made reference to Objective 2, Task A, and asked what defines appropriate public input. Commissioner Carey responded from his perspective. He said that the Board has not had the opportunity to discuss what appropriate public input would be until they get the report and share it with the public in August. He said that the Board of County Commissioners has never proceeded without public input before so it will continue its track record. Jahn Link said that he would want to collaborate with the Superintendents to see what elements could be addressed by the first reporting period by the end of June. The financial impacts could be generated by the end of June but others will take more time. He said that at the next Superintendent's meeting they could address as many of these elements as possible. Gloria Foley asked how long the other studies took to complete and John Link said that the studies by the consultants took one year and the internal one with Orange County also took at least one year. Nick Didow said that he had a copy of the one done in 1987, but he could not recall how many pages were in it. John Link said that it was about 200 pages in Orange County's report. He said that he does not see the staff creating anything this large. Elizabeth Carter said that they are concerned about the number of hours that would go into this type of study. Keith Cook said that he agrees that we would need to know about how long this study will take. He would like to get a consultant to do this. He said that it seems that alot of time is now being required by the school boards and that they have a lot on their plate now. Randy Copeland asked if a four-month time frame would be sufficient to pull together all of the information. John Link said that they would like to have a year but they would like to adhere to Board of County Commissioners' time frame. This is an internally-driven time frame. Randy Copeland suggested giving this mare time. Dana Thompson asked if the past merger studies could provide a blueprint for our study to shorten the time. John Link said that the RTI study addressed the issues in more depth and he would like to strive towards this. Dana Thompson said that whenever she has made a request of the County staff, they have always worked with eagerness. She would hope that her board would show the same eagerness in providing information. She urged all to go into this with eagerness. Commissioner Halkiotis said that the Board did not approve this concept when it was brought up by Commissioner Carey. The Board deferred it to a future discussion and there was a significant discussion. This is a possibility of a Commissioner goal. He said that they were very careful to state that they did not have any preconceived notion that they were heading towards merger. He said that we need to be careful on haw we word this goal. The other studies were done with the purpose of moving towards a merger. This is different - it is just a goal and not a plan to merge. Commissioner Carey asked about the school boards' estimate of time to accomplish the elements listed on the sheet in the fuchsia color. He also asked if the previous studies were done after a decision was made to merge the school systems, or if they were done to provide information to help the County Commissioners and school boards decide to merge. He would not feel compelled to duplicate the same kind of report that RTI did if it was done with the intent of showing how to do it. This is a multi-step process. Superintendent Pedersen said that he has more concerns about the questions than the time. For example, under Educational Student Impacts, number 2, "An analysis of the impacts that a possible merger would have on current class size and current curriculum offered in both districts." He said that he has no idea about this. He thinks it would require the boards working together to come up with an answer. He said that he does not know where to begin to answer these types of questions. Gloria Faley said that she appreciates that this is going to be used as an investigational document, but she is concerned about the timetable. She is trying to understand haw hard and fast these dates are. Commissioner Halkiotis said that there is not enough time to even do the shortest study. He said that this, as one the many goals of the County Commissioners, may or may nat meet the timetable. He does not expect that all of these things can be done in this time period. He is interested in hearing about the tax impacts and the long range benefits of merger. He is trying to be realistic. Commissioner Carey said that he thinks that this list of items is a collective document done by the Board of County Commissioners and that some of these questions may not even be able to be answered by an outside consultant. He suggested asking the staff to give it their best shot within the established time frame. Chair Brown said that what she has heard is if we had enough time, we would all come together and come up with a really goad document. Time is a significant issue. Delores Simpson said that since the idea of merger has resurfaced and now the communities are becoming interested in this, she thinks we need to do the paperwork and get the answers and have a Q&A forum with the community. Chair Brown said that the Board of County Commissioners can discuss this again and the timeframe could be extended with information gathered as we go along. Jahn Link said that as the staff addresses those items on the yellow sheet, he would share the interim report with all {elected officials and schoal superintendents}. He asked if the school boards and superintendents would be willing to address the items under Finance and Governance Implementation on the aqua sheet. He understands that some questions are complex and it may well be that most of those items in fuchsia may have to be addressed in a longer timeframe with the help of some outside source. Valerie Foushee said that she does think that what the Manager has proposed is the direction to begin and it does not seem as daunting a task. Betty Phelps-Davidson said that one possible solution might be to give the school boards two to three weeks to figure out what collaboration needs to occur between the districts related to the questions. Her concern is that if they do not do meet together first and August comes around, they may find themselves comparing apples and oranges. Nick Didow asked that the staff and County Commissioners think about backing this up one more step and looking at the yellow parts first, which would address the funding inequity between the two school systems. If the County Commissioners are not ready to address the funding inequity, then the rest of the study would not be worthwhile. Chair Brown said that a lot of the information that Nick Didow made reference to would be collected by staff. She is going to leave it up to the staff and let John Link meet with the superintendents and discuss it. Also, the chairs of the school boards should meet together and talk about collaboration in getting together the information. c. School Collaboration Study Rod Visser said that last fall the chairs of the three boards along with the superintendents met with Phillip Boyle at the Institute of Government to discuss the possibilities of looking at collaboration issues. The proposal is far the study that would be engaged in by the Board of County Commissioners at a cost of $20,QOQ to examine some of the barriers with, and opportunities of, collaboration. The Board of County Commissioners has talked about this and no conclusion has been reached. There are some mixed feelings about the study. Commissioner Jacobs said that one of the County Commissioners feels that it is not something that we should spend $20,OQ0 on, one of them is supportive of proceeding, and one of them wanted to see if the school boards were still committed to this process. He said that they brought this issue to this meeting to get a sense from the two school boards about whether or not they are committed to going forward with it. The County will be paying for the study. Gloria Foley said that they continue to support the desire to work on collaboration with Orange County Schools and they also support this memorandum of understanding. She said that a lot of the issues could be done in an impartial and systematic way that would behoove them to do whether there is merger or nat. Brenda Stephens said that they are also supportive of this. Chair Brown said that she is concerned about the limited number of people that would be involved. She asked how this process could be shared with other board members. Dana Thompson said that she is concerned about Dr. Boyle's involvement because he is a parent in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools and she is concerned about whether this study could be free of any bias because of the association. However, she is impressed with him and his work. This is her individual perception. Chair Brown will have the Board of County Commissioners discuss this more. d. Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance Update Craig Benedict said that every jurisdiction and district has approved at least one version of the MOU of the SAPFO. Carrboro had an issue with how to address an over capacity situation in the middle school level of the CHCCS. Over the last month a committee of attorneys, planning directors, and school board representatives have met to discuss this issue and some of the CIP issues. Another question of Carrboro was how CAPS system is implemented. The staff has developed a workbook on how the SAPFO system works technically once it is implemented. The minor changes will have to go around to all of the jurisdictions one more time. The SAPFO could be implemented by May or June of this year. Hillsborough also had questions about the impacts of Mebane and Durham on the Orange County School district and the staff is drafting a letter to answer their questions. Valerie Foushee asked about the funding for the CAPS administrator. Craig Benedict said that part of this CAPS implementation process is put together in the workbook. They have tried to put as much information upfront as possible. The majority of the work will be at the local government level. When they send out the last letter they will try to elaborate on this issue. e. School Siting Initiative John Link deferred to Commissioner Jacobs. Commissioner Jacobs said that he, the Chair, and the Manager met today to talk further about this item. He deferred to the Manager to go into the details of what was discussed. The attachment is 1-e. John Link made reference to the last page and said that they want to identify by the Assembly of Governments meeting the advantages of this type of collaboration. The idea is to agree on identifying school sites proactively. The incentive would be that the County would commit to funding the acquisition of school sites in the same way that it is proactively funding the acquisition of conservation easements and land for the Lands Legacy program. The acquisition of a school site would not be part of the whole school project as it is now. This was what was discussed in the meeting today. Commissioner Jacobs added that the municipalities have planning expertise and familiarity with their awn land use planning. This would be a way to get ahead of the curve and to develop a comprehensive plan. The next bond funding could also be the acquisition of identified sites for future school use and get it out of the way. This would be a smoother, more assured process. This would get the towns involved more and tap into expertise that exists in the municipalities. Chair Brown invited the school boards to the AOG meeting on the 29t" of April. Commissioner Gordon made reference to the school/park reserve fund that was one cent put aside on the tax rate every year to be used far the purchase of future school sites. She said that the County has gradually gone away from this and now there is na money going to this fund. Also, in the Schools and Land Use Council, they have discussed some of these issues. Chapel Hill has a comprehensive plan that has identified school sites. Many of them have been developed or are no longer suitable. There are not many sites left. Carrboro also had school sites an their land use plan but the County purchased those Eubanks Road sites. Hillsborough did not express interest because there is not a lot of area in their jurisdiction. Orange County did discuss putting sites in the comprehensive plan. There were a number of identified sites in Orange County and they generated an unfavorable reaction so it has not been pursued further. She hopes that any new initiative would take into account these historical paints and what kind of collaboration we have done in the past. Keith Cook said that what the document covers is what the school boards have done all along. He does not like that the document refers to them not being trained and having a lack of understanding. He said that this is not fair. One of the authorities of school boards by law is to site schools. He said that both school boards have put about ten schools an the ground compared to one or two buildings that the County has built. The document is not respectful and he asked that we be careful with the language. Chair Brown said that we could move toward positive ways to look at collaboration and refer it back to the school boards and to the Board of County Commissioners. f. Need far Dialogue with Chapel Hill and Carrboro on Public Transportation for Schools Chair Brown said that she has heard many times about the need for public transportation to the schools, particularly to address after school programs. She has spoken with both mayors and the new transportation director in Chapel Hill and they were very open to discussing the idea of expanding the transportation to all of the schools. She asked the school board to talk this over. Gloria Foley said that bath high schools have the desire to work with the transportation and to have a representative from the schools on the Transportation Advisory Committee. Commissioner Jacobs left at 9:00 p.m. 2. Issues IdentifiedlPresented by Orange County Schools a. School Nurse Funding Brenda Stephens distributed a document. The Orange County Schools has a nursing situation and they also do not have a nursing supervisor. John Link said that they presented in the budget of 2001-2002 afour-year plan, and last year they were not able to implement the second year because of the budget constraints. His plan in his recommended budget is to reengage the plan this year. b. 2003-04 Budget Process Brenda Stephens said that they would like to know a timeline. Jahn Link said that he and Interim Superintendent Williams did discuss in general the timeline of the CIP and operating budget process at the last superintendent's meeting. He plans to have recommendations on school budgets by May 19t". May 22"d is when the CIP budgets will be addressed. 3. Issues IdentifiedlPresented by Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools Valerie Foushee said that they need updates an the High School Planning Task Farce, the School Facilities Task Force, and the Schools and Land Use Councils Report. The most pressing issue for the CHCCS is the acquisition of a third high school site and Nick Didow read a statement, which is stated below: "On behalf of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools Board of Education I would ask that the official record of this evening's Joint Work Session, April 14, 2003, indicate the following: "When asked to identify agenda items and issues pertaining to the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools, section number 3 on tonight's agenda, Superintendent Pedersen indicated to the county manager that our highest school board priority this evening was far an opportunity tonight to present and discuss with you our recent formal resolution identifying three properties collectively known as the Rock Haven Road site, which is our decision as to the location of high school #3 in the southern end of our District and to respectfully request the Orange County Board of Commissioners to approve the purchase of these properties in an appropriate and timely manner. "This proposed agenda item was not included in matters we will review tonight. Rather, our understanding is that this item has been deferred to the Board of County Commissioners work session of April 24. We respectfully petition you for prompt and appropriate attention to this important matter and we stand ready to provide any additional information or explanation as may be helpful. "A cover letter addressed to Commissioner Chair Brown, a copy of the formal resolution, and background documentation including documentation of the need for additional high school capacity, description and analysis of the site, a financing strategy, and a sample site concept plan was hand delivered to Commissioner Chair Brown and County Manager Link on Friday, April 11, 2003, so as to make it available to all Commissioners and county staff. We have met the timeline you previously identified for us earlier this year. "I would also again like to publicly express our appreciation for the advice and counsel provided during the site search by Commissioner Gordon, who is the BOCC-designated liaison for us on this project; for elected officials and staff from the Town of Chapel Hill and the Town of Carrboro; and for key Orange County staff with wham we have worked closely and constructively aver the past fifteen months of due diligence for site identification and site assessment, site acquisition strategy, and financing strategy. "It is our hope that all parties will continue to collaboratively work together to help us plan and construct a third high school far the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools that continues to raise the level of excellence and community service for which this county is known." Respectfully submitted, Nicholas Didow, Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools Board of Education Chair Margaret Brown said that last Friday the County received their proposal for the third high school and it was faxed out to all County Commissioners. The staff is going to look at it and come back at another work session so there will be ample time to discuss it. Commissioner Halkiotis asked if there was a plan for a presentation on the 24th because the maps were not clear on the fax. John Link said that they will have staff from Chapel Hill and there will be representatives from the school board. Commissioner Halkiotis asked for a clean copy of the maps. All CHCCS board members agreed to attend the work session on the 24th a. Task Farce Progress Reports 1. High School Planning Task Farce -Final Report Rod Visser said that this group has been looking at potential sites for the third CHCCS high school. They were looking at the properly on the east site of 15-501 that ultimately did not work out. This is where the group left its work in November and the group felt that it was finished. 2. School Facilities Task Farce -Progress Report Rod Visser said that this group started meeting last May but has not met since December. They worked with SAPFO issues and they will need to revisit issues of school construction standards adopted by the Board of County Commissioners. There has also been discussion about a different configuration for high schools {i.e., urban school setting}. 8. Schools and Land Use Councils Report Commissioner Gordan said that in June 2002 the SLUC came up with recommendations about the parameters of the Schools Adequate Public Facilities Memorandum of Understanding. There were same changes and questions that were addressed in the fall. 4. County/OCSlCHCCS Informational Reports a. Student Membership Projections Rod Visser said that this is the product of the SAPFO MOU process that involves the planners, school representatives, and attorneys getting together and looking at the November 15t" actual membership numbers each year, applying those numbers to the approved models, taking an average of the student projection models, and putting them into charts. This becomes the basis far capital planning for the subsequent year. b. Clarification of CHCCS Student Population by Geographic Distribution Steve Scroggs developed this. He shaved ascatter-gram. In 2006-2007, there will be 1,041 students in grades 5-8 in the southern part of the district and 1,500 elementary students. These are actual students in seats today. With na further items to address, the meeting was adjourned at 9:25 p.m. Margaret Brawn, Chair Donna S. Baker Clerk to the Board