HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20030325APPROVED 05/06/2003
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISISONERS
WORK SESSION
AGENDA
March 25, 2003
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a Work Session on Tuesday, March 25,
2003 p.m. at 7:30 p.m. at the Government Services Center in Hillsborough, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Margaret W. Brown, Alice M. Gordon,
Stephen Halkiotis and Barry Jacobs
COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Moses Carey, Jr.
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill, Sean Borhanian
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County
Managers Rod Visser and Gwen Harvey and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker {All other staff
members will be identified appropriately below)
NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE
PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
1. Housing Band Policy -Land Banking Policy Approval
The Board considered approval of a Land Banking Policy for incorporation into the
County's Affordable Housing Bond Policy.
Housing and Community Development Director Tara Fikes said that at the Board's
January 21St meeting the Affordable Housing Advisory Board brought forth a land banking policy
and now they have revised the policy as recommended by the Board. They also made some
further revisions. She made reference to page two of the agenda abstract and the three main
points. The first point is project completion. There was much discussion at the last meeting
about athree-year versus afive-year project initiation requirement in the Land Banking Policy,
and the advisory board continues to recommend the three-year project initiation requirement.
This is the just to begin the project and not to complete it.
The second point is pre-development due diligence. There was some discussion of the
efficacy of requiring the applicant to submit a Project Feasibility Assessment as part of the Land
Banking Policy. The advisory board recommends a redistribution of points to de-emphasize the
project feasibility. There will now be more points for pre-development due diligence {from 30 to
50).
The third point is affirmative language regarding utilities and site conditions. The
advisory board recommended the addition of some language, which is in the abstract.
Commissioner Jacobs asked how the County's purchase of land for land banking fits into
the thinking and if a program would have to be initiated within three years. Tara Fikes said that
the advisory board was not thinking about the County purchasing land. There was always the
assumption that there would be some other group purchasing the land. There can be
exceptions to the criteria.
Commissioner Jacobs said that he is still not comfortable with the three years but he
would like to let the county be exempt if they purchase land because it takes a couple of years
to get a project going. He made reference to page 10 and suggested two changes. In item C at
the bottom, he changed the word "affect" to "circumscribe". He also added a third question as
follows: Based on these conditions or constraints, is this an appropriate site far development?
Commissioner Gordon said that the key is what the land in land banking is being used
for. She said that one of the reasons to highlight pre-development due diligence and downplay
project feasibility is because the land is going to be banked for a while. She thinks of land
banking as five years and not three years. If it is going to be only three years, then the project
feasibility should not be downplayed.
Chair Brawn said that land banking to her means putting land aside until you are ready
to do a good project. She would like to extend this out to five years and have the landowners
report back. She could see holding it even for ten years. She put forward to extend it to five
years with a report back at three years. She asked what would happen to the property if it was
not developed. Tara Fikes said that the County would decide and it would probably be reverted
back to the County.
John Link said that there would be an agreement or contract whereby the County
conveys property for a public purpose. Whatever the timeframe threshold, there needs to be a
legal tether from the non-profit back to the County and that this is public funding and the land is
to be used for a specific purpose.
Geof Gledhill prefers to create a reversion in the event it is not used.
Chair Brown asked if the funding could be leveraged. Tara Fikes said that the
evaluation criteria does not include a leverage piece. The thought was that there may be
property that needs to be purchased quickly.
Commissioner Halkiotis said the natural human tendency is to "grab and spend now"
and it would be useful to make a statement as to what this process is and that it is a long range
commitment. He would like it to have a statement of purpose.
Tara Fikes will came back with a mission statement and the definition of a successful
initiation.
Geof Gledhill suggested a technical change in page 10, item B as follows: Is the
property within a water and sewer service area?
The Board agreed to change the project initiation to five years.
Geof Gledhill said that there are a lot of things in the documents that are not in the
policy. On page four, Project Completion, he changed the language to "All Existing Housing
Program activities will report within three years of funding award with afive-year initiation, or
reversion."
Jahn Link said that the idea of a concept plan is good and this means that the entity
develops an initial plan for the governing body. It needs to be made clear as to what our
concept plan is and haw it may be different from other municipalities.
Commissioner Gordon pointed out an inconsistency on pages 4 and 14 under Eligible
Projects. This was Hated by Tara Fikes.
2. Comprehensive Plan Land Use Element- Recommendations and Qutreach
Discussion
The Board pursued dialogue between the Comprehensive Plan Land Use Committee
(CPLUC), BOCC, Planning Board sub-committee, and County Staff on the following topics:
Information contained in Land Use Recommendations Workbook, options for community
outreach, role of County Staff and CPLUC members in outreach efforts, and timeline for
adoption of the Land Use Element.
Craig Benedict gave introductions (CPLUC Members in attendance were Don Cox, Cara
Crider, and Barry Katz). This committee was formed by the Board of County Commissioners
last year. Over the seven or eight meetings last year, the committee has been talking about the
challenges facing Orange County in the future related to the comprehensive plan land use
element. Some of the challenges include: efficient provision of public services, protection of
rural community character, preservation of farmland, protection of water resources, traffic
reduction, reduction of fiscal impacts of development, protection of natural resources, reduction
of air pollution, etc. The recommendation went forward to the Board of County Commissioners
on January 25th. The focus of tonight's agenda item is community outreach and how to educate
the public on these issues.
The first growth management tool for consideration is an urban growth boundary and
interim growth boundary. Additional discussion needs to occur in areas outside of
Hillsborough's ETJ to determine the growth potential.
Chair Brown said that we could pursue this with Hillsborough and it is on an agenda.
Commissioner Jacobs said that Hillsborough was talking about doing some sort of a
visioning process. Craig Benedict said that this was some sort of strategic plan but he has not
heard anything recently. The County should be wrapped into this process.
Craig Benedict said that this week he would be meeting with the Durham Planning
Director on how we can get water and sewer in this EDD. There have also been discussions
with Mebane related to water and sewer.
Discussion ensued about having two growth boundaries.
Cara Crisler said that when Portland did their growth boundaries they just put one big
line around the area and there was no interim growth boundary. Barry Katz said that this does
not work well far people living in those areas but it works well for Planners.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the red line for Hillsborough is the 40-year water and
sewer service boundary area, which they cannot serve. He said that maybe we could have a
plan that articulates why there are two lines.
Commissioner Gordon mentioned the growth management tools. She asked if all of
these tools would literally be taken to the public. Craig Benedict said that they would be talking
about the general five areas and how the application of the tools implements the ideas.
Commissioner Gordon asked about the growth management challenges and how they
were addressed by the scenarios -for example, preservation of community character,
neighborhoods, and historical cultural features. Craig Benedict referred to the notebook and
said that under each challenge, it gives the benefits of addressing them. A lot of the challenges
are addressed by land use density reduction.
Craig Benedict referred to the growth scenario and said that it could be integrated into
where the special use permit subdivisions eventually occur so that urban style development is
encouraged and have a lower density in the rural preservation areas. He continued by talking
about density reduction. The larger projects have been occurring throughout the County and
not in the urban thoroughfares. The proposed density, which is growth scenario three, has a
reduction in density as you get away from the urban service areas. There are no changes
proposed in the University Lake and Cane Creek areas. There are changes proposed in the
Haw River area. There are also suggested changes in density in areas that are further from fire
and police services.
Commissioner Gordon asked haw farms would be factored into historical densities.
Craig Benedict said that any properties that were under 15 acres and more than $50,0000 in
value were added together. If it was more than 15 acres, the thought was that there was
potential for a subdivision at a later date.
Craig Benedict continued by reviewing a map on the amount of open space in
subdivisions across the County. The goal is to have more open space in the rural areas.
Craig Benedict answered clarifying questions for the Board and CPLUC members.
Chair Brown said that it appears that we are encouraging more growth, when it is
actually down-zoning. She does not know if it reflects a sustainable approach.
Craig Benedict continued and said that the largest impact that we are trying to make in
the County is a traffic reduction standpoint and the negative effects of extra traffic. The Triangle
area is number one in the country for increased gas consumption and pollution. The new land
use plan will put people closer to the urban areas.
Craig Benedict made reference to community outreach and said that there will be public
hearings. He asked how the Board and the CPLUC should go out to the community. There are
three options -community could come to an open meeting with CPLUC members and staff,
there could be meetings in northern Orange County, ar there could be a meeting in Hillsborough
and in the rural areas of the County.
Commissioner Gordon said that she is not sure that this is ready to go to community
outreach. One assumption is that the towns will want to become more dense and this needs to
be checked with the towns and definitely with Chapel Hill and Carrboro. The assumption is that
the towns will want to receive this and that the people will want to go from a maximum density of
one acre to five acres. This is not going to be easy to explain. She asked what would actually
be taken out to the community.
Craig Benedict said that this is a land use plan change. The goal is to have more
continuity with the expectations of the Board to have less density in the rural areas.
Barry Katz said that there is so much more to be said and they need to have mare
Planning Board members here and he would like another meeting to discuss this.
John Link said that it is important, as we go out into the community, that we also talk
about some of the proposed subdivision regulations. All of the proposed changes should be
presented at the same time.
Chair Brown said that it sounds like we are talking about a lot of people. She is
interested in going back to sustainability and how the County can afford taking on higher
densities.
Commissioner Jacobs made reference to community outreach and said that no ane on
the Board of County Commissioners or in CPLUC is an advocate of private property rights
before community goals. A lot of the people that we are proposing to down-zone are
proponents of this view. He said that the more community outreach the better. He suggested
having a focus group and having Craig Benedict do a presentation.
Don Cox said that from a historical perspective, we have never had as many farmers on
the verge of going out of farming as we do now. They look at their land as family assets. We
need to convince them that this down-zoning will not adversely impact their economic structure.
We need to show them that this will work for them. He thinks that there will be a lot more land
coming onto the market than in the last few years. He feels very strongly that we will have
wished we had preserved a lot of the farm land.
Craig Benedict said that in Cane Creek, he was able to show that the sale of property
was based on acreage and not how many units you could put an it. Farmers were getting an
acreage value and the developers were getting the profit.
Commissioner Gordon asked about the small area process with our partners. Craig
Benedict said that with our joint area partners, we will begin discussing such things as the rural
buffer densities. There will be task forces put together here with the Board of County
Commissioners and Planning Board members and Planning staff.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he agrees that this is not ready to ga out to the public
yet. He also agrees with the focus groups. He also agrees with Don Cox in that we should
separate out the developers from the landowners. He said that the whole Planning Board
needs to hear this as well as the Commission for the Environment and others. He said that we
have forgotten what we went through with water issues in the summer of 2002 and we are going
to get slammed again. This is an area for growth and we need to be careful. The need for
additional comment is critically important.
Commissioner Jacobs said that we are basically talking about sustainability. He
suggested trying this out with a few different groups to see the reaction.
Chair Brown suggested consolidating the information and setting up a larger meeting
with the Planning Board, etc. The information should be more simplistic.
Cara Crider said that she is a professional advocate of smart growth and she is
impressed with the Board and the staff grasping these concepts. She thinks it will be hard for
people to understand this information and a lot of outreach will have to take place. She loves
the idea of focus groups. She shares Commissioner Cordon's concerns that all of this is
dependent on the cooperation of the municipalities within the County. She would be hesitant to
go out in the community with any of this before there is a partnership.
Chair Brawn said that would never happen because we have our interlocal agreements
and she does not ever see stretching that.
Cara Crisler said that for issues like affordability, it is going to be a nightmare, and
people are going to call us on that.
Craig Benedict will provide a timeline proposal to the Board within a couple of weeks.
3. Report on Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance
The Board received as information an update on efforts to address the Schools
Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance {SAPFO) aspects specifically related to the Town of
Carrboro's work session of February 18, 2003.
Rod Visser reported that they had a meeting with representatives from each jurisdiction
involved in the SAPFO. The first issue is the CIP and Carrboro raised concerns about whether
the County would fallow through and have a fully funded CIP. They particularly raised a
concern about a middle school for which there was a need. He thinks this concern was
addressed at the meeting. He thinks Carrboro understands that when the CHCCS present their
CIP and the Board of County Commissioners adopt a CIP for the years 2003-2013, there will be
provision far a middle school {2008-2009) and it will be listed as a need in the CIP.
The second area was Carrboro's concerns about a de facto moratorium as it relates to
high school space. Carrboro's perspective is that the projections that were just done shows two
years out and there is an 86-student overage. Carrboro's view is that this puts us in a
moratorium situation. Craig Benedict tried to explain to Carrboro that if the SAPFO were in
place right now, based on the student generation rates associated with the Tischler study, there
are still 723 dwelling units that could be constructed before there would be a CAPS that
exceeds the 110°l0 level of service.
Craig Benedict said that the middle school adequacy test is being suspended in Orange
County until the new school opens up. The high school adequacy test in the CHCCS could be
suspended until the new high school space is available. This would address Carrboro's
concerns about the impending moratorium.
Rod Visser said that the third issue is CAPS administration. There is not consensus
among all of the administration for each jurisdiction on exactly haw CAPS are administered.
There is another meeting in ten days or so and Craig Benedict has circulated a computer
spreadsheet showing how it works. There was complete consensus that everyone that
associates with CAPS administration is able to explain it the same way to anyone walking in the
door. There must be something in writing.
Jahn Link said that Carrboro has gone through this process of dealing with differing
entities. His recommendation is to use what Rod Visser described so that there is no "cloud". It
takes all governing bodies to agree with the SAPFO to make it work. We are too close to an
agreement to not accommodate.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he is concerned about how we can guarantee the
accuracy of the numbers. He still believes that the County needs to take the lead in
authenticating the numbers. The information needs to be irrefutable and should come from an
objective source.
Commissioner Jacobs said that he agrees with Commissioner Halkiotis on the issue of
authenticating the numbers. He asked if there was any discussion on changing the levels of
service as opposed to suspending the adequacy tests. John Link said that they have discussed
changing the levels of service. He said that the suspension scenario would get approved more
easily than changing the levels of service.
Commissioner Jacobs asked if suspension was indefinite. Geof Gledhill said that the
timing of the suspension would be until the next school was opened.
Commissioner Jacobs asked about the update of the frequently asked questions. Craig
Benedict said that they are continuing to update this. Commissioner Jacobs said that it would
be good to give the FAQ to all of the other elected officials.
Commissioner Gordon said that the concept of suspension would be same for the OCS
as for the CHCCS because you put money in the CIP and it is a suspension until you build the
facility.
John Link said that getting everyone on board is the most important thing and we need
to work through this for the next few years and the suspension would get others to sign off on
the SAPFO more quickly.
Craig Benedict spoke about the great strides they have made on the projection of
numbers.
Rod said that this is an update only this evening and the staff was not expecting any
decisions.
Chair Brown and Commissioner Halkiotis bath said that they support the Manager's
recommendation. Commissioner Gordon supports this with the understanding that they have
not changed the decision about the high school. Commissioner Jacobs and Chair Brown said
that they would prefer to change the levels of service, but if it is not feasible then we should go
with suspension of the adequacy tests.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that there must be checks and balances far these numbers.
The County has a responsibility to check the numbers. He is embarrassed because we failed
the test.
Commissioner Gordan said that we all need to check everybody else's numbers, but she
would like to say that they have come up with an agreement to have a system to figure out the
membership and the projections. She thinks this was a success.
Regarding the line in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system, Rod Visser said that
the orange line is the line that Steve Scroggs described at the CHCCS Board meeting the other
night as being the line below which they have done the analysis of how many students there
are. He thinks that this defines the southern end of the district, but Mr. Scraggy did not put it in
exactly those terms. There are two charts in the PowerPoint presentation, which the Board will
receive, that show the number of students as of September 20, 2002 that live south and north of
that line at all school levels. This line runs from the Durham County line, up NC 54 to South
Columbia Street, then north to Franklin Street, then to Main Street in Carrboro, then back to NC
54 until the Bingham Township line.
Commissioner Jacobs said that this line is different from before and we need numbers
that are value neutral.
Craig Benedict said that soon they will have the address matching system completed
and the numbers can be analyzed.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he does not understand this because he can show a
system that plats out multi-family housing and can tell how many children are in the units. This
is an old system. He said that if the NC Smart system cannot do this, then there is something
wrong with it.
Commissioner Jacobs asked the Chair to invite Steve Scroggs to a televised meeting to
talk about this map and explain the numbers.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that Cedar Ridge High School is being projected to have
900+ students next year. The capacity of this school is 1,000. We need someone on staff that
will be analyzing the data all the time and working with the municipalities.
Chair Brown said she would be glad to invite Steve Scroggs to a televised meeting. She
said that there has always been the element that this is the fastest growing area in the County
and it is just the opposite.
Commissioner Gordon does not understand the paint and said that it does not matter if it
is or is not the fastest growing area as long as there are existing students.
John Link said that at the Superintendent/Manager lunch it was mentioned that the plan
is for the school system to submit a formal proposal as it relates to the high school. The
CHCCS Board is planning to address it on April 10tH
Chair Brown said that we definitely should have a public hearing on the siting of a new
school.
Commissioner Gordon said that she does not remember asking any school system to
justify their siting decisions. She asked why we are getting to this degree of specificity of forcing
them to give their reasons. This has not been required before.
Chair Brown said that her interest is the huge cost differential. There is a sustainable
budget for the County and the school system.
A motion was made by Commissioner Jacobs, seconded by Commissioner Halkiotis to
adjourn the meeting at 10:15 p.m.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Margaret Brown, Chair
Donna S. Baker
Clerk to the Board