HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20021121APPROVED 2/4/2003
JOINT MEETING
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
TOWN OF HILLSBOROUGH COMMISSIONERS
NOVEMBER 21, 2002
7:30 p.m.
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a Joint Meeting with the Town of
Hillsborough Commissioners on Thursday, November 21, 2002 at 7:30p.m. at the
Government Services Center in Hillsborough, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Barry Jacobs and Commissioners
Moses Carey, Jr., Stephen Halkiotis and Alice M. Gordon (arrived at 7:40)
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: Margaret W. Brown
LLSBOROUGH COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Mayor Jae Phelps,
Mark Sheridan, Michael Gering, Frances Dancy, Kenneth Chavious, and
TOWN OF HILLSBOROUGH STAFF PRESENT: Tawn Manager Eric Petersen
COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: Geof Gledhill and Sean Borhanian
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County
Manager Rod Visser, Assistant County Manager Gwen Harvey and Clerk to the Board
Donna S. Baker (All other staff will be identified below).
OPENING COMMENTS
Chair Jacobs said that there was one addition to the agenda, item 1-d regarding
Elizabeth Brady Road.
Mayor Phelps said that it was good to get together with the County to talk about
same of these issues.
1. Coordination of Water Issues
a. Water Conservation Ordinances
Chair Jacobs said that the issue of water came forward earlier this year during
the drought, and there was some conversation in the summer when we were trying to
address some of the shortcomings of the water conservation ordinance as it related to
some of the uses. There has been a need for consistency in the water conservation
ordinances throughout the Caunty. Alsa, canditians have changed since Hillsborough
built a reservoir and we have been operating on an old model. Lake Orange has been
dictating the level of conservation the County was in. Also, in the summer there was
discussion about bringing the model far the Upper Eno up to date and not basing it all on
Lake Orange. Also, the people at Lake Orange have expressed their concerns about
what they consider an unfair burden that is placed an their resource.
Mayor Phelps said that he and Chair Jacobs talked about when Hillsborough's
reservoir had water and Lake Orange was low and this is why they decided to work
together. The good news is that they both have plenty of water and now we can come
together and hopefully not have restrictions for a while. There is a need far uniform
water restrictions for in and out of town customers.
b. Capacity Use Agreement
Chair Jacobs asked County Engineer Paul Thames to explain why the Capacity
Use Agreement was on the agenda. Paul Thames said that this agreement specifies
how much water each entity can take out of the Eno River depending on the amount of
water at Lake Orange. This agreement sets limitations an the water purveyors. The
idea behind the Capacity Use Agreement and the Water Use Ordinance is to prolong the
life of the reservoir and Lake Orange. He said that if we are going to work the reservoirs
in tandem then the Capacity Use Agreement needs to be modified and the State Division
of Water Resources and the North Carolina Environmental Management Commission
will have to sign off on the process.
John Link said that the next step would be to have a smaller group to talk about
what Paul Thames described, which is to coordinate the capacity use agreement and the
water conservation ordinances. Also, OWASA' s ordinance does not match our
ordinances and it might be good to change the verbiage to coincide with each entity.
Paul Thames said that they have discussed this in the H2Orange work group,
which includes Hillsborough, OWASA, and County staff.
Commissioner Halkiotis made reference to the second page of the abstract and
turf farms. He said that these turf farms use large quantities of water without limit or
regulation. He wants to engage and involve members of the agricultural community to
diversify and move away from this.
Paul Thames said that the upstream turf farmers may or may not be a major
player in the water demand.
Chair Jacobs said that if we are not facing a drought situation now then we have
time to try modeling. He said that if turf farming is an issue, then it should be brought to
the forefront so that it can be confronted.
Michael Gering said that he wonders how this will play out over time and we may
be facing mandatory restrictions again.
Chair Jacobs said that staff could be charged to develop an interim plan first to
make sure we have adequate water supply.
Michael Gering said that the issue far him is coordination of water for in town and
out of town customers and they should handle this themselves.
Chair Jacobs said that we would work a process where after the staff brought
forward this information, it would be brought to a public process for comment.
Mayor Phelps asked that each body direct staff first before the two staffs come
together since the Town and County may have different goals.
Chair Jacobs said that this would be fine, but he thought they were both in
accord.
Mayor Phelps said that, as a Board, they have not discussed this Capacity Use
Agreement. They need to become more familiar with it before they send staff out to
work on this.
c. Double Water Rates
Chair Jacobs addressed the public in attendance and said that these are work
sessions and there is not public comment on the issues here. He has talked with Will
Atherton, who formally brought this to the Board of County Commissioners' attention.
The County Commissioners wanted to bring this up, but they do believe the Town board
listens to people that do not vote for the Town. He said that he shares the concerns. He
hopes that the Board of County Commissioners can be a sounding board for the citizens
and the Town. The County Commissioners would like to be kept informed other than by
the newspapers.
Commissioner Carey said that these work sessions are not decision-making
sessions and he shares the concerns that people outside of town are being charged
double rates. He thinks that we are hearing more now since the drought when we were
encouraging people to conserve and they are still paying more. He knows that the new
reservoir was expensive. He said that, if we are going to encourage people to conserve
resources in the future, then it may help to look at whether the pricing goals are
incompatible with the conservation goals.
Mayor Phelps said that all of the Town staff is aware of water rates for in town
and out of town customers. He said that Hillsborough welcomes comment and they
have a budget process on the water and sewer fund. He said that citizens can make
comment and they also have a Water and Sewer Advisory Task Force that meets
regularly. He invited the public to come to these meetings. He said that the public could
call the Assistant Engineer far the meeting dates. He said that in June, Hillsborough did
not raise the water rate. The last time the rate was increased was about 16 months ago.
They hope to reduce rates but they have a debt to pay and they could not pay it off if
they reduced rates anywhere. He pointed out that the task force has members from in
town and out of town.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that it was years ago that a former Mayor of
Hillsborough threatened to shut off water to Town buildings. He said that before
Hillsborough had a reservoir, some citizens in the northern end of the County came up
with the idea of working together to develop a reservoir, Lake Orange, which provided a
guaranteed source of water for Hillsborough. For all of these years, the County has
handled the casts of this reservoir so Hillsborough could treat it the water and sell it to
the customers. He commended Will Atherton for getting involved and researching the
facts. He said that Mr. Atherton asked the County Commissioners to advocate for lower
utility rates and that is what he is doing now -advocating for lower utility rates. He
asked the Town of Hillsborough what the County Commissioners could do to help
achieve this goal.
Chair Jacobs said that in one of the proposed developments in Hillsborough, the
developers are pointing out how much money the Town will make in charging a new set
of residents double water rates. This is compounding the problem. He agreed with
Commissioner Halkiotis that the County Commissioners would like to work with the
Town to come up with creative ways to lower utility rates.
Mark Sheridan said that he appreciates what Commissioner Halkiotis said, but
what will help them is if the Town looks at all 4,500 water users as customers and treats
them all the same. The concept that once water passes an artificial water line it doubles
the rates is not justified. The Water and Sewer Advisory Board's number one priority
was to create equilibrium far out of town and in town rates. He said that it would make a
difference to narrow the gap and bring the rates down to the out of town customers 5-
10%and then bring the in town rates up. He thinks it is a question of philosophy and
politics and not economics.
d. Elizabeth Brady Raad
Craig Benedict said that the Economic Development District Task Force worked
in late 2000-2001 and found out that a lot of the land use decisions that were being
made in this 800-acre district were strongly linked to transportation issues. In the Spring
of 2001, the Economic Development District Transportation Advisory Group worked on
same recommendations for the important linkages in and around the economic
development districts and how they could be improved. One of the prime roadways of
issue was the Elizabeth Brady Roadway. There were same recommendations that were
forwarded to the MPO in October 2001. Hillsborough had a similar memo that talked
about 7 different things to do with Elizabeth Brady Road.
Commissioner Gordon said that there are three aspects of Elizabeth Brady Raad
that she would like to be addressed. She read from the Orange County resolution from
the October 30th meeting. She would like to focus on the statement about having the
least impact on the Eno River, the natural environment and cultural sites, which
alignment would be recommended; and the cross section.
Commissioner Gordon named the members who attended the TAC meeting
today. They discussed Elizabeth Brady Road. She said that the TAC wanted Orange
County and Hillsborough to reach a consensus on what they want for this road.
Mayor Phelps said that if you adopt the four lane cross section and DOT does
this environmental impact and if you vote for the four lanes then DOT can change it back
to a two lane model. But if you go forward with two lanes then you cannot go back to
four lanes without extensive changes. Regarding the least impact, he suggested saying
that if the river is crossed, then you better be careful. He said that the option with the
least impact is the one that does not cross the river, but DOT will have to make this
decision.
Commissioner Gordan said that she wants to agree on the points such as the
priorities that the EDD work group had suggested and the two lanes versus the four
lanes. She would like to find out what Hillsborough wants for the road.
Ken Chavious said that he thinks that DOT understands the environmental
impacts of these roads and that is who we need to listen to. Currently, with the
development trend in that area, we must ask for four lanes now and if DOT decides it
should be two, then it will be two. This is what we need and no one has found another
viable way financially. There are 16 new developments proposed or already underway
in Hillsborough's jurisdiction. If you have to go across town, there is only one road -
Churtan Street. He said that this is not a bypass, it is an artery. We needed this road
yesterday. It will have to cross the river no matter what.
Commissioner Gordon said they received modeling back for four lanes and two
lanes and the modeling was the same for both.
Commissioner Halkiatis asked if this was a unanimous opinion of the Town
Board, what the Manager just said. Ken Chavious said yes it is.
Mark Sheridan said that Elizabeth Brady Road has always been Hillsborough's
stated number one priority. Number two is what it looks like and how it operates and
that is what the other groups have looked at. The question is if there is power with the
DOT by submitting a unified resolution. If this kind of resolution provides more benefit in
terms of the project moving forward, then this is the key thing.
Chair Jacobs said that a unified response would be very helpful and would be
more powerful. He said that the thing to do would be to ask each TAC representative to
work out a mutually agreed upon statement of what both entities support.
Commissioner Gordon asked to hear from Michael Gering and Evelyn Lloyd.
Michael Gering said that he does not want to assume that DOT always respects
the same priorities as we do. He would like to endorse the first option of not crossing the
Eno River and having four lanes versus two lanes.
Evelyn Lloyd agrees with a combination of what Mike Gering, Mark Sheridan,
and Ken Chavious have said. She does not think that this is the best place for a bypass.
Frances Dancy said that she is for the four lanes and she thinks DOT will do
what is environmentally correct.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he and the Chair have been meeting with DOT
engineers. One of the biggest debates has been the issue of crosswalks. DOT says
that putting in a crosswalk encourages people to cross the road. He does not agree with
everything that comes out of DOT. He thinks that the Board of County Commissioners
has a different set of responsibilities to preserve and protect Hillsborough. He is upset
about the number of trucks going down Churton Street that have no business going
down this road.
The two boards agreed to ask the TAC representatives and the alternates to
come up with a joint statement about Elizabeth Brady Road. However, since the TAC
alternate for the BOCC could not attend, it was agreed that either the Chair or Vice Chair
would came instead. The statement will be brought back to each board's meeting on
December 2nd
Commissioner Gordon reviewed the points to be discussed as follows -
language about the least impact on the Eno River, seven options from the EDD work
group on the alignment, and two lanes or four lanes.
Chair Jacobs said that the point is to make the two resolutions {Orange County
and Hillsborough) as consistent as possible.
Commissioner Gordon asked for Hillsborough's resolution.
2. Major Protects
Chair Jacobs asked Hillsborough Planning Director Margaret Hauth to update the
County on where these three projects are in the process.
a. Pathways lformerly Preservel Residential Community
Margaret Hauth said that Pathways has come to the Town and the Town asked
for the public meeting to see the opinion of the County Commissioners.
Mayor Phelps said that the developer would have to prove that it is financially
feasible to provide water to this project without imposing double water rates.
Mark Sheridan said that the question is whether bath boards need to hear a
presentation at the same time.
Orange County Planning Director Craig Benedict said that this is a 400-acre plus
project north of Pathways Elementary School. This project has been before both boards
by different developers. It has almost come to public hearing but developers have pulled
out because of various concerns. There is another project that has not come forward to
Orange County and it is in Hillsborough's water and sewer boundary area. It is 450
acres and has a land use of one unit per acre. Before the County sees this project they
need an indication from the developer about how the project will be served with water
and sewer. The issue an the table tonight is the request for public water and sewer.
Orange County Planning staff has not made any decisions about this.
Frances Dancy asked to ga through the courtesy review agreement and made
reference to page 8. She wants to know why the developer is coming to the Tawn first
and not the County in requesting water.
Mayor Phelps said the reason they brought this forward was because they
wanted some kind of working agreement so they would not be committed to the
developer.
Chair Jacobs said that there is a concept plan stage. The developer can float the
basic concepts to see if the Planning Board and County Commissioners buy into it. He
said that, if it is in Hillsborough's water and sewer service area, then we could start with
the presumption that we should look at a plan that is designed to have water and sewer
and then the County can give the Town an indication.
Mark Sheridan said that it seemed very helpful the last time the project came
through to have a joint meeting with the County and the Town. He said that on certain
projects that are looking for water and sewer and are a certain size, then it might be
better to hear the presentation at the same time.
Craig Benedict spoke about the concept plan and preliminary plan processes.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he is really torn on this one because he wants
to know what the Town can handle. He said that the town built the new water tank and
water lines were run to the school. He is trying to balance this with another 400-500
units with water and sewer coming into this same area. He would like an analysis of the
better thing to do -take available water in pipes or drill a lot of wells. He thinks there
needs to be a joint meeting about things like this. The issue becomes what causes the
least damage to the earth.
Evelyn Lloyd said that the Town has a list of projects that they have water for
now and Pathways is not on the list. This project would fall under Phase 2 of the
Reservoir. The Pathways people keep coming back and another step is needed to
clarify what the County wants.
Commissioner Carey said that he would like to have same information about
whether Hillsborough has the capacity to serve this project.
Mayor Phelps said that the Tawn Board felt like if they agreed to give Pathways
water, they did not want the County Commissioners to think that the Town was
endorsing the project. He asked that the staff and board get together and come back.
Ken Chavious said that the developers do not want the County to tell them they
cannot build a certain number of houses an lots. He said that the developers would like
to come to the Town and ask for water and sewer first before they go to the County. He
would like an okay from the County first before they come to the Town and ask for water
and sewer.
Commissioner Carey said that the staff could look at this again and provide mare
clarity far the boards on this project. He is willing to have a joint meeting for certain
sized projects.
John Link said that the staff has struggled with the draft of the Courtesy Review
Agreement. He said that we need to look at item 2.2 on page 5, a1, a, and b, where it
appears that Hillsborough makes a final decision on water and sewer. He volunteered
the staff to look at a suitable threshold that both governing bodies need to come together
to review a project.
Eric Petersen agreed with John Link.
b. WaterStone
Margaret Hauth said that the Town board has given directions to the developer
and is waiting to hear back from them. Two of the main issues are the number of
residential units and the square footage of retail.
Commissioner Gordon asked if this was close to the proposed community
college site, and it was answered yes.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that this would not be given as a community college
site. The site would be available far sale according to the developer, and it would be 20
acres.
Chair Jacobs asked far clarification on the widening of Old NC $6 to four lanes by
the developer. Margaret Hauth said that they have not received the details about this.
Mark Sheridan said that they have had two to three public hearings on this
project and closed the public hearings with the understanding that more public hearings
would probably be scheduled.
c. Corbintan Commons
Chair Jacobs said that a few people from the Advisory Board on Aging and Carol
Woods have come to the Town's meeting and made comments. He asked them to put it
into writing because the County Commissioners had never heard any of it. He
distributed the comments.
Margaret Hauth said that the Town adopted a new zoning district called a Mixed
Residential Special Use District. This allows someone to come in and mix density in
return for providing facilities and housing for the elderly. This project is proposed to do
this. There has been one public hearing an this. The applicant is coming back to the
Town board in December and then again in January. The entire project is age restricted
to 55 plus under the HUD guidelines. Up to 20°10 of the residents do not have to be
under the age of 55, which allows for spouses. Also, na one under the age of 19 can
live in the development.
3. Orange County~Hillsborough Courtesy Review Agreement -this item was
discussed above
4. Joint County/Town Projects
a. Update on Fairview Park
John Link introduced the new Parks and Recreation Manager Lori Taft. He said
that $850,000 has been earmarked for this park. One of the key decisions is if there is
enough going on between the Town and the County to take a look at joint park, Master
Plan opportunities. He thinks the answer is yes. The staff will look at all studies and
where Hillsborough could locate their public works facility and haw that could work {near
the County's}.
Chair Jacobs said that there are 92 acres total and the staff will do a site survey
of what is on the ground now and then the Board is going to go out there and invite
everyone. They will try to do this in the winter. The plan is to come back and make a
proposal on the schedule that is outlined in the document. This is just apre-concept
plan.
b. Other Parks and Recreation Projects
c. Justice Facilities Update
The County Commissioners are going to discuss the status of this at the 5:30
p.m. meeting on December 10t". John Link said that nothing has changed as it relates to
the whole process. There will still be three groups that will look at the overall concepts
and the funding has been moved back far about six months to a year. They will report
back to the Town board what the Board of County Commissioners discussed on
December 10t"
5. Report from the Joint Orange Grove Raad Transportation Group -
POSTPONED
Chair Jacobs said that it would be nice if the County could make a presentation
from the work group before any changes are made on this road.
Chair Jacobs made reference to the green sheet and said that a motion was
needed to change the Board of County Commissioners' meeting schedule to start the
meetings on December 2"d and December 10t" at 5:30 p.m. in order to finish the
necessary business before the break.
There was a mistake, and there is not a work session on December 2"d, the time
is just to be moved up.
A motion was made by Commissioner Gordon to change the starting time of the
December 2"d meeting to 5:30 p.m. and add a work session on December 10t" starting at
5:30 p.m.
Commissioner Carey has a meeting at 6:00 on the 2"d, so he cannot be there.
He can be there at 7:30, but not 5:30.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that if Commissioner Carey can not be in
attendance, he is not in favor of doing it.
Commissioner Gordon withdrew her motion.
A motion was made by Commissioner Halkiotis, seconded by Commissioner
Carey to add a work session at 5:30 p.m. on Tuesday, December 10tH
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
With na further items to discuss, the meeting was adjourned at 10:05 p.m.
Barry Jacobs, Chair
Donna S. Baker
Clerk to the Board