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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 20020325building this smaller high schaol, which mayor may not include some band monies. Attachment 1A-1 outlines the process far this committee. Environment and Resource Conservation Director David Stancil made reference to the proposed Chapel Hill Township Park and Educational Campus Master Plan Committee, which would bring together a group to plan the193-acre site at Eubanks Road and old NC 86. He distributed a handout with the timetable for the Chapel Hill Township Park and the timetable for High School #3. Commissioner Carey asked if the assumption is that the task force will make recommendations back to the County Commissioners and the school boards within the next two months. John Link said that it would be as quickly as possible. Gloria Foley clarified that this is a High School Planning Work Group and that the timeline may be taa chart. Brenda Stephens said that the Orange County School Board is willing to be part of this work group. Chair Jacobs stated that the Board thinks that the Schaol Facilities Task FarcelConstruction Standards Committee ought to reconvene as soon as possible. Commissioner Brown said that one of the first things the Board wants to da is to visit those sites that would be available for school and park combinations. Commissioner Gordon said that the idea of the High School Planning Work Group was to have a group that would work on the planning of the proposed high school. It would also be good to have a decision during the cycle for the CIP. She did not envision that the work of all the groups would have to be finished before a recommendation could be made for the CIP. One thing that needs to be determined is how long range the educational campus is and for which school. She feels it is important for the proposed High School Planning Work Group to come up with a recommendation in time for it to be incorporated into the CIP cycle. As for all the other groups, they would not necessarily have to finish all their work during the CIP cycle which will be completed by the end of June. Chair Jacobs said that as far as planning for the park with an educational component, the Board has discussed getting together a group that would include Carrboro elected officials, residents in the neighborhood, etc., to continue the planning of the entire facility. We could plan for the educational component much more quickly than trying to plan far the entire facility. Superintendent Pedersen said that he is concerned about the time frame to open a high school in 2005 and he asked that the County Commissioners try to complete the work in the fall, which would add an additional three months for the construction of the high school. Chair Jacobs said that the timeline could be adjusted. Dana Thompson suggested that the School Facilities Task FarcelConstruction Standards Committee come very early in the process, because we are talking about overhauling some of the standards and a whole new way of looking at the high school experience. This would be an appropriate place to start immediately. Chair Jacobs suggested that at the next meeting of each board, committee members could be chosen. Both school systems indicated that they have already selected members to serve on the School Construction Standards Committee. The staffs will work together an a meeting schedule. The three boards agreed to start the High School Planning Work Group. Commissioner Gordon would like to see the group address the adequacy of the proposed high school to satisfy the need. It does not appear that one high school for 750 students will meet the need. John Link also encouraged this discussion about one high schaol meeting the need. He said that he was looking at it from a fiscal perspective. When the APFO is put in place, there will hopefully be a way to finance new schools. Nick Didow noted that today the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools registered six new kindergartners for next year and four people who will start tomorrow in the high schools. He said that this was a fairly slow day. b. OCSICHCCS Committee on Collaboration Between School Systems schools, which should have a say an merger and collaboration. He has not heard any support from rural Orange County far merger. Unless there is significant savings, he thinks there should not be merger. Commissioner Carey feels that it is acceptable to the County Commissioners to wait until the survey results came in. However, the County Commissioners should at least know what is going out to the public in the spirit of communication. With reference to a student going to another high school, he is familiar with students, which are registered at one college and can take courses at other colleges. He said that he knows that if they can work it out, the people in this room can figure it out. He asked for additional information on why the two systems are not in favor of combining their central offices. Valerie Foushee said that she is not opposed to sharing the draft survey with the County Commissioners as long as the process is not bogged down. With regard to the transfer of students, they do believe that it can be done, but there is no process in place at this time. Keith Cook made reference to the comments made by Commissioner Carey about students being able to move from college to college and said that these are adults and not children, so transportation is not an issue. Chair Jacobs reiterated that the school boards have agreed to let the County Commissioners see the survey before it goes out. He asked for the two school boards to try and work on getting a consultant to look at same of the collaborative opportunities. He would like for the school boards to finish that piece and bring it to the County Commissioners by the end of April {cost of consultant, scope, possible consultants, etc.}. He made reference to the survey in the fall and said that the County Commissioners are not trying to push the two school systems to put merger out into the public realm until we at least consider what is involved in merger. There are some very strong opinions about merger. He does not feel that there is enough information about the pray and cons of merger. Superintendent Bridges made reference to the possibility of locating the central offices together and said that there are issues about the location, size, and putting everybody in one building. He said that the first thing that popped into his mind was, "why?" He did not see the savings or advantages of it. No one really liked the idea. Chair Jacobs asked if this could be put in the second bullet as a consideration and Superintendent Bridges said yes. The consultant can at least look at the possibility and see if there would be any savings to locating the central offices together. c. Factors Affecting FY 2002-03 School Budgets John Link said that the counties and cities are experiencing cuts in revenues from the state. The County will have to address this, as the budget is prepared. The County Commissioners continue to have guidelines in place for funding current expense for both school systems. He is to pursue the target of 48.1 % of the total County budget for educational funding. Based on the Department of Public Instruction numbers, the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system is to expect a gain of 234 students and the Orange County School system is to expect a loss of 160 students. Based on that, the Orange County School system would lose funding. He said that he and the superintendents would come up with a creative recommendation to try and address the needs of the students. Superintendent Bridges said that they are aware of what the state has done to local budgets. Cedar Ridge High School will be opening this year and with the numbers from DPI, Cedar Ridge has basically become the budget for Orange County Schools. The Orange County school budget will reflect an increase for health care costs and funding far the opening of Cedar Ridge High School in August. Funding for the opening of Cedar Ridge High School is a big concern. Superintendent Pedersen said that he plans to submit a budget with the same per pupil amount as they received this past year. They are planning to keep the same level of service. The state is telling them to assume a 30% increase in insurance costs. They will be opening a new elementary school in 2003. They will do whatever the state does regarding salary increases. Commissioner Gordon asked both superintendents to explain what it means to a school system when its enrollment goes up and it gets more money or when enrollment goes dawn and it gets less money. Superintendent Bridges said that if there is a drastic change in student enrollment, they would lose teachers and that funding source. If the loss of students is spread out over the district, it is mare difficult to spread out the loss of funding. critical and can be phased in as money is available. This would include air-handling units and making sure that everything is kept up to date. f. School/Parks -Operations, Maintenance and Community Access There were no comments. g. Pre-K Programming -Operational and Capital Budget Impacts John Link made reference to attachment 1 G, which speaks to the number of classrooms being used for pre-K Headstart at Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools. Chair Jacobs asked for clarification on the number of pre-K classrooms at Chapel Hill High School. It was answered that there were two classrooms. Dana Thompson asked if the pre-K students are counted in student capacity at Chapel Hill High School and Superintendent Pedersen said that the students are not counted in the capacity ar membership. In Carrboro they placed two pre-K classrooms, which are not counted in the capacity. Susan Halkiotis made reference to the strain of allocating the exceptional children and just the effort that is needed to establish a mechanism for reporting capacity, which takes into account the exceptional children and pre-K programs. Chair Jacobs verified that if the two pre-K classes were moved out of Chapel Hill High School, there would immediately be additional high school space. Superintendent Pedersen said that some of the students at the high school and the staff have their children in the pre-K classes at Chapel Hill High School, so there are some advantages of having the classes at this site. Superintendent Bridges said that they have identified four schools that will have pre-K classes - Efland-Cheeks, New Hope, Central, and Pathways Elementary schools. The school system has not incurred any expense with these classes. The pre-K children are expected to arrive in their facilities after spring break. Commissioner Brown asked if any of the pre-K classes in Chapel Hill-Carrboro were in over-capacity schools. It was answered that there are classes at Seawell Elementary School, which is an over-capacity school. Lisa Stuckey said that the pre-K classes at Seawall are located in a former gym/multipurpose room that would not be reverted back to classrooms. Superintendent Pedersen said that, for the most part, in new schools there were classrooms designated for pre-K classes. Commissioner Brown said that when the school standards review is done, we need to look at the standards far pre-K classrooms. She asked that the 217 children in pre-K and Headstart be broken out to show the ratio between the children that are paying and those that are in Headstart. Commissioner Brown made reference to capacity and asked that bath school systems note that the capacity is being diminished and for what reason (i.e., the pre-K mandate, etc.). h. School Facilities Task Farce Report -Issues Reauirina Further DiscussionlResolution Commissioner Gordon made reference to the last bullet "other considerations" and designing buildings for ease in future building additions. She feels that planning needs to be done for flex space and swing space that can be used for different grade levels ar different purposes. Also, in locating new schools, a consideration of schools in close proximity should be considered for advantages in locating two schools together (elementary and middle, middle and high school). Dana Thompson said that designing schools so that there is flexibility could take a lot of time. There are lots of programming and educational philosophy issues. She asked if the work group could put that as a lower priority in order to get as much work done as possible. Commissioner Gordon said that she did not want to hold up the process, but this should be on the list for efficiency of facilities. We are trying to achieve the maximum efficiency. Steve Scroggs said that at Meadowmont there are three rooms that provide flex space. i. Joint Determination of School Capacities Barbara Baker said that they have limited funds to serve the adults in the area and far every dropout they serve under the age of 18, there would be one adult who could not attend. d. Status of Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance Consideration No comments were made about this item. e. FY 2001-2002 School Audit Reports Commissioner Halkiotis suggested that there be another follow-up dinner meeting between the County Commissioners and the two school systems within the next 35 to 40 days to address some of the other items which time did not allow. 5. ADJOURNMENT With no further items for the Boards to consider, the meeting was adjourned at 10:00 p.m. The next regular meeting will be held on April 2, 2002 at 7:30 p.m. at the F. Gordon Battle Courtroom in Hillsborough, North Carolina. Barry Jacobs, Chair Beverly A. Blythe, CMC APPROVED 6!6102 MINUTES ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION WORK SESSION MARCH 25, 2002 The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in joint session with the Orange County Board of Education and the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Board of Education on March 25, 2002 at 7:30 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Barry Jacobs and Commissioners Margaret W. Brown, Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordan and Stephen Halkiotis COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill and S. Sean Borhanian COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Manager Rod Visser and Clerk to the Board Beverly A. Blythe (All other staff members will be identified appropriately below) ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Brenda Stephens, Vice-Chair Dana Thompson and members Robert H. Bateman, Keith Cook, Susan A. Halkiotis, David Kolbinsky and Delores Simpson ORANGE COUNTY SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS: Randy Bridges CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Valerie Foushee, Vice-Chair Teresa H. Williams and members Elizabeth Carter, Nicholas M. Didow, Gloria Foley, Maryanne Rosenman and Lisa Stuckey CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO SUPERINTENDENT OF SCHOOLS: Neil Pedersen NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE. 1. County OCSICHCCS DiscussionlPolicy Issues a. Short Term and Long Term High School Planning Considerations John Link said that last week the County Commissioners received a Capital Investment Plan presentation for both school systems and for County needs. At that time, he made a recommendation that there be a short-term work group consisting of representatives of all three governing boards and staff to examine the present proposals by the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system for additional high school space. He also noted last week that Superintendent Pedersen had told the Capital Needs Task force that Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools needed two expansions to the two existing high schools, which would cost approximately $8 million. Superintendent Pedersen had also indicated that the school board might be recommending an entire new high school. The Capital Needs Task Force wrestled with that issue and toward the end of the process there was a thought that funding would be included in the bond issue far planning a new high school. The County Commissioners last August made a commitment for funds for planning for a new high school and that money is part of the process. During the past couple of months the school board has talked about building two smaller high schools instead of a larger high school. The first small high school would be needed at this time and another smaller high school toward the end of the decade. Last week he recommended that it would be a good idea for a committee to look at all possibilities for expanding high school space in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools. Last Thursday, a small group (Gloria Foley, Nick Didow, Margaret Brown, Alice Gordon, and staff) met to go over the preliminary plans of the Chapel Hill Township Park and educational campus. As the County looks at the CIP for the next ten years, we need to look at this as a plan and not based on decisions made each year. He said that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools could use alternative financing far Superintendent Pedersen reported that on January 29t" the committee took the charge as written by the County Commissioners and reached the conclusions as written in the agenda abstract. They are happy to look at opportunities far savings from joint operations. They will look for a person to da a study and bring that information back to the County Commissioners. The two superintendents are going to work on better defining mandates. He said that none of the participants were interested in combining central offices for the two school systems at the same site. With reference to merger, the group thought that the County Commissioners would more appropriately conduct this type of study. Commissioner Carey said that he has heard people talk about savings that can be generated with joint efforts and said that he feels we owe it to the public to study savings related to joint operation of the two school systems. Superintendent Pedersen said that this was the idea. Transportation is a major area where the two school systems already collaborate. They are open to studying other passible joint areas as identified. Commissioner Carey said that what he hears is a commitment from the two school systems to look for savings by collaborating. Keith Cook said that the decision was that we would price out a couple of companies to da this type of study and give the County Commissioners this information. Commissioner Halkiotis asked about bullet #5, "during the 2002-2003 school year, the districts will determine the amount of excess capacity in the two districts and seek input from school governance committees, parents, and students concerning their interest in students attending schools in the other school district and in the possibility of merging the two school districts. " He asked if the school boards intended to seek input from the governance committee, parents, and students about the passibility of merging the two school districts. Superintendent Pedersen said yes, but that it would not be a merger study but only to ascertain if there is any interest in merger. Commissioner Gordan made reference to the joint education opportunities and asked about the formal mechanism if a student was to go to another district. Superintendent Pedersen said that they do not know the answer to that yet. The first thing is to determine if anyone would like to switch districts. Commissioner Gordon asked if the student, once in that new district, would be treated the same as everyone else. Superintendent Pedersen said that it would depend on whether they were actually enrolled in the district. Superintendent Bridges said that these were questions that he has also asked. There are a lot of issues that must be considered. Commissioner Brown asked about the proposed survey far the governance committees, parents, and students. She asked if it would ga to the governance committees first. Apparently there are two surveys -one an interest in the educational opportunity in bath systems and one on interest in merger. Superintendent Pedersen said that an important question to the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system is whether parents are interested in their children attending Orange County schools. Commissioner Brown asked how the student ar parent would understand the advantages and disadvantages of going to another school district. Superintendent Pedersen said that they are sharing what is unique in the Orange County school district. Dana Thompson said that she has seen the draft survey and it does list programs that are available in Orange County and not in Chapel Hill-Carrboro. She feels it is very important to start with the surveying of students and parents. She feels that we are not including the taxpayers that do not have a direct connection with the schools and that the taxpayers should have a say in this. Keith Cook said that he would like for the County Commissioners to wait for the results to come out instead of seeing the survey before it is done. They will share all the results of the survey. If they are interested in merger, the school boards will come back to the County Commissioners and ask them to look into it. Commissioner Brown clarified that both school systems will ask the question about merger in the survey. Bob Bateman made reference to the 1986 study, which indicated that it would cost more to merge the two school systems. He agreed that there are taxpayers that da not have children in the Keith Cook said that also the electric bill does not change in a building where 100 students were taken out of the building. He said that he would like for us in the future in building schoals, to put monies into the bond to pay for opening a new school. Orange County Schools always has a problem with funding to open new schools. There needs to be a mechanism far providing bond monies for start-up costs for new schools. Jahn Link said that the County Commissioners could set aside an amount for opening schools, but for every dollar that Orange County Schools gets, Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools would also get a dollar. The County Commissioners cannot set aside a certain amount of money for one system and not the other. This is state law. Susan Halkiotis said that where it hurts Orange County Schools is that the state is going to send the money for these students if they show up, but Orange County Schools will have lost that money from local funding. She asked if it would be possible to set up a rainy day fund that would help both districts in situations like this. John Link said that if it is current expense and we are not pursuing paying for it from the district tax, then every dollar that one system gets, the other system would also get. He said that the rainy day fund would not just pay for a number of students but would raise the per pupil amount. Susan Halkiotis asked what if the rainy day fund was one that would bald constant the per pupil allocation that was set prior to July 1 ~ far the budget and would just cover the additional students. John Link said that he would come back with a more definitive statement to respond to that question. Commissioner Carey said that although he likes the rainy day fund concept, this would need to be put in place for all needs in the County. We would have to consider a rainy day fund in a broader context to include other needs in Orange County like senior citizens, Health Department, Social Services, etc. Superintendent Pedersen said that there is the issue of incremental costs. If there is room to grow in the school system, then it is probably financially advantageous. However, if a new facility is needed, the advantages catch up to you. He said that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system also struggles in a year when a new school is opening. d. Priority Projects -Bond Renovation Funds, Alternative Financing, and Pay-as-yau- ao (PAYG1 Chair Jacobs asked for questions about the projects and the different funding sources that are available. There were no comments. e. OCSICHCCS Capital Investment Plans Rod Visser said that this was an opportunity for the County Commissioners and the two school boards to ask questions about the CIPs. Commissioner Gordon asked about the older facilities in each school system. She said that she understands and applauds both school systems for putting emphasis on renovating the older schools. She asked Superintendent Pedersen about the Culbreth science classrooms and said that she hopes that they are moved up in their CIP because they have been inadequate for years. She asked the Orange County school board about the renovations at Hillsborough Elementary School and their central office facilities. Superintendent Bridges said that Hillsborough Elementary School is an optional school. The capacity is over 400 students and there is always a waiting list. He said that if there could be an extension of space for the central offices, then there would be more room at Hillsborough Elementary for additional classrooms. Commissioner Gordon said that she visited Hillsborough Elementary School. She spoke about what she understood about the addition to the building. Superintendent Bridges briefly explained the addition and renovation plans. He will bring back additional information about what the capacity of Hillsborough Elementary School would be if additional classrooms are added. Chair Jacobs made reference to the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools' CIP and the indoor air quality improvements and the phased-in approach. Steve Scroggs said that they have addressed the major air quality issues at Chapel Hill High School so the rest of the schoals are not as Commissioner Gordon made reference to the APFO and said that capacities would be determined by joint action of the school boards and the County Commissioners. She has heard around the Commissioners' table a desire that they be involved. She feels that we need to figure out what we are doing about pre-K and exceptional children and how to determine the capacities. She feels that the County Commissioners need to be involved. Susan Halkiotis made reference to her handouts and said that capacity needs to be a three-way conversation to agree an a legitimate means of determining capacity and projecting enrollment figures for each system. She explained each handout. She said that Orange County Schools did not have all the empty seats as shown on the original document, Student Capacity by School District, but that seats were counted far a school that has not yet opened, Cedar Ridge High School. She did not want there to be any misunderstanding. Commissioner Gordon made reference to Attachment 4-B1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 and explained how the figures were gathered. She had been told that the information was supplied by the school systems. She too would like to get the information straight in the future so that there is no misunderstanding. j. School Sitina Matters - OCS Middle School #3, Proposed CHCCS Hiah School #3 There were no comments. k. Middle College Hiah School Program There were no comments. 2. Issues IdentifiedlPresented by Orange County Schools (Ali items identified by the Orange County Schools are addressed elsewhere on this agenda} 3. Issues IdentifiedlPresented by the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools a. Master Planning of the Eubanks RoadlOld 86 Site b. Use of Segal Consultants c. Communications (Ali other items identified by the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools are addressed elsewhere on this agenda) 4. CountylOCSICHCCS Informational Reports a. Minority Student Achievement b. Third Month School CapacitylStudent Membership Updates c. Status of Durham Tech Satellite Campus Project Commissioner Brown asked Barbara Baker from Durham Tech to clarify who can go to Durham Tech and what are the limitations on high school students taking Durham Tech classes. Barbara Baker said that the dual enrollment rules are that students who are 16 and 17 and who are taking a half load in high school and making satisfactory progress may take any amount of 100 level or above classes. There are also classes conducted in the high schools, which anyone registered in the high schools may take. There is also the issue of dropouts. If a student who has dropped out of high school asks to be part of the program, Durham Tech requires some special communication with the family and they are treated on a case-by-case basis. They discourage high school dropouts from attending the college. Maryanne Rasenman said that most community colleges in the areas do allow dropouts to enroll who are age 16 or older.