HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 09-24-2001APPROVED 1 11 612 0 0 2
MINUTES
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION
September 24, 2001
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in joint session with the two school boards at 7:30 p.m.
at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Stephen H. Halkiotis and Commissioners Margaret W.
Brawn, Moses Carey, Jr., Alice M. Gordon, and Barry Jacobs
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr. and Clerk to the Board Beverly A. Blythe
(All other staff members will be identified appropriately below}
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Nick Didow, Teresa
Williams, Gloria Foley, Elizabeth Carter, Valerie Foushee and Superintendent Neil Pedersen
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Brenda Stephens, Susan
Halkiotis, Dana Thompson, Keith Cook, David Kolbinsky and Superintendent Randy Bridges,
NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT AGENDA
FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE.
Chair Halkiotis asked for a moment of reflection as a result of the horrific events of September 11t". He
reminded everyone that the issues tonight are not life and death situations. This is a land of abundant
resources.
Chair Halkiotis asked that the County Manager and the two superintendents work to set dates for the bus
tour of County and school facilities. He made a commitment to spend a Saturday to tour facilities to see the
needs of the County and the Schools. He thinks this sends a powerful message to the community. Also, the
Board needs to discuss whether ar not we want to move ahead with the bond referendum.
1. COUNTY/OCS/CHCCS DISCUSSIONIPOLICY ISSUES
a. Bond Education Campaign
County Manager John Link made reference to attachment 1 a-1, which was the agenda for the first
meeting of the Bond Education Committee. He distributed a copy of the meeting dates for the subcommittee
meetings that are scheduled. This Wednesday, September 26t", the Bond Education Committee will share
information on why the monies generated from the bond referendum are needed. We are on target and ready
to move forward with the education campaign.
Chair Halkiotis said that there have been concerns raised by members of the Bond Education
Committee as to whether or not the County should move ahead with a bond referendum in November, taking
into consideration the events of September 11t" and the condition of the stock market.
Jahn Link said that one option is to delay the sale of the bands once the bond referendum is passed
in November. The sale of the bonds can occur whenever the timing is right. We have seven years in which to
sell the bonds and can request the LGC for an extension beyond that time. Obviously the decision has to be
made as to whether ar not the issue will be on the bond referendum ar not.
Commissioner Carey feels that if we delay the bond referendum it is exactly what the terrorists want
us to do. He feels we should do everything we can to mitigate the impact of the bond for the citizens in Orange
County. He would encourage us not to delay the bond or put it off to another time. He feels we need to plan
ahead in case the economy takes a turn downward Chair Halkiotis feels we need to move
ahead and have staff put some planning thoughts in writing with respect to a priority order, maybe extending
the bonds for a longer period of time to spread out the impact on the tax rate.
Commissioner Brown agrees with going ahead with the band referendum. She is very encouraged
that the economy will get better.
Commissioner Jacobs feels we are a confident community and a progressive community with a
sense of optimism, which makes this a special place. This is not a time to turn away from our obligations to
the children in Orange County. We can certainly spread the bonds over a longer period of time to mitigate the
impact on the tax rate. He feels comfortable in moving ahead and in assuring the voters that the Board will be
responsible and pay taxes also.
Nick Didow made reference to an invitation from Carol Woods to present information on the bond
referendum an Friday, October 4th and was wondering if it should be members of the Bond Education
Committee doing this presentation instead of Board of Education members or County Commissioners.
John Link said that their target date for having a PowerPoint presentation is October 3rd. If the
presentation materials are not ready, there will be pamphlets and other written material.
Commissioner Jacobs said that he was just responding to an invitation and he thought it was
appropriate for school board members to go and represent their interests.
Dana Thompson said that a big presentation would not be necessary for the meeting at Coral
Woods.
b. Opportunities for Collaboration Between School Systems
Commissioner Brown made reference to attachment 1 b-2. She said that this collaboration would be
between the two school systems. She summarized the three goals as stated below:
1. Achieve the broadest possible access to educational opportunities for all students in Orange
County.
2. Enhance resources and support for teachers.
3. Be responsive to long-term impact of school budgets on the taxpayers of Orange County.
The proposal is that the Orange County Board of Commissioners request that the two boards of
education establish a work group of their choice to discuss the purpose and possible elements of collaboration
as identified and to share their findings with the Board of Commissioners by May 1, 2002.
Commissioner Jacobs made reference to the Innovation and Efficiency report, which made
recommendations about school funding and collaboration issues. He made reference to the school merger
study, which was done in 1986. He summarized the 10 possible elements of school collaboration, which are
listed on attachment 1 b-2. He suggested coming up with a common language for what is meant by budgetary
mandates.
Susan Halkiotis said that she feels this is a great idea. There are a number of things on the list that
are important and merit discussion. She said that there was no mention of a County Commissioners'
representative on this committee and she feels there does need to be a County Commissioner an this work
group.
Chair Halkiotis said that he mentioned to Nick Didow the rumor going around that Orange County
was creating extra capacity in the Orange County school district to force merger of the two systems, which is
not true. He feels that both systems should look at the merger report. If there are any opportunities to save
money, then these opportunities need to be pursued.
Nick Didow said that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board would consider this request at its
next meeting on October 4th and how they would respond and participate in this process. He asked if a
consideration was made to do another study and if the recommendation was to merge that the County
Commissioners would make that decision. However, if a committee comes back with the recommendation that
merger is not right at this time, it would mean that merger would not be considered at this time. He asked if the
County Commissioners was considering a full "revisiting" of the question of merging the two school districts.
Commissioner Carey said that he feels that the committee should not include a County
Commissioner because the school board members know mast about their system and can reach agreement
on the recommendations without the input of a County Commissioner. He said that the population has
changed in bath school systems and perhaps it is time to revisit the merger study in light of changing
population and a change in the school system. He feels that circumstances have changed enough to revisit
the question of merger. He feels that the committee could address this issue.
Commissioner Jacobs feels it is more important to stick to the issue of freeing up money for
programming, teacher salaries, and teacher supplements instead of putting money into structures. He said
that there are sa many negatives associated with merger and the concept. He said that, in his opinion, merger
is not being addressed.
Chair Halkiotis said that the issue of school merger demands and expects a significant amount of
time and study. He said that there was nothing wrong with looking at it in anon-threatening way. He said that
if the two school districts did merge, it would take several years and many people would be involved. He is not
convinced that a lot of money would be saved by merger, but he thinks people need to at least have an open
mind and be willing to look at it. He thinks this is a wonderful opportunity for school collaboration. He thinks
there would be a much freer sharing of ideas and thoughts without County Commissioners being present in the
process.
Commissioner Gordon said that if the committee of school board members had an opinion about
merger then she suggested they take up merger as one of the topics to express their opinions about it.
Brenda Stephens said that this would be added to the Orange County School board's agenda for
next week.
Dana Thompson said that what she hears the County Commissioners asking of the two school
boards is what if all the grownups take responsibility far all the kids in our County. She said that we should
stay focused on this question.
Gloria Foley made reference to the merger study and said that it struck her when it said that
whether there is merger or not, what you really want to do is look towards having small collaborative units in
which you build small successes. She said that oftentimes, joint programs cost more money. Also, the date of
May 1St concerns her and she suggested a successful timetable to have as much information as possible to
make concrete and realistic decisions.
Nick Didow said that he feels it would be helpful to have one County Commissioner or two County
Commissioners serve an the committee. He agrees that many of the things on the list of collaboration efforts
have been done in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School system {i.e., efficiencies in ordering of supplies and
services). The Chapel Hill-Carrboro City school board would gladly share these ideas with the Orange County
school board.
c. School Health and Safety includin Nursin
John Link said that this speaks to the ongoing interest of safety matters affecting all students. The
first item is related to the priorities for renovation funding. The other item is related to the expansion of the
nursing staff in both systems over the next four years to be sure that we have the presence of a school nurse
at all schools. The County Commissioners approved three new nursing positions in the budget approved last
July. This is to be accomplished through a contract arrangement with the Board of Health.
Superintendent Neil Pedersen said that they have expanded one position from half time to full-time
and there is a recommendation pending for another full-time position. They are on schedule.
Superintendent Randy Bridges reported that they were on schedule as well.
d. Priorit Projects for Bond Renovation Funds and Alternative Financing
John Link made reference to a letter from Chair Halkiotis dated September 11th asking each school
system to prioritize the bond funding for renovation of certain schools and to indicate how each school system
would address issues of health and safety. The other item related to how each system had earmarked fund
balance revenues for the final budget as adopted by each school system. We have received responses from
both systems.
Superintendent Bridges said that in the memo provided to the County Commissioners tonight, the
Orange County school board has decided that the $900,000 of renovation money would go for Hillsborough
Elementary School. He asked about additional funding for completing the renovations for Hillsborough
Elementary and Orange High School.
Commissioner Gordon said that the County Commissioners had discussed alternative financing and
she had suggested funding for renovations recommended by the Capital Needs Advisory Task Force but not
included on the bond. She also said that the Commissioners had removed the central office renovations from
the list. The County Commissioners wanted to take a tour of school facilities before making a commitment of
funding. She asked for an explanation of the renovations at Hillsborough Elementary.
Superintendent Bridges said that Hillsborough Elementary is their only year round school. They
have a waiting list each year. The Central Office expansion piece was tied to the renovations. They have
thirteen classrooms being used by central office staff that they would like to move from that facility to allow
additional classroom space for expansion of their year round schoal. The $900,000 would address carpet
issues, mold issues, additional classroom space, media renovations, and restroom facilities. The $900,000 will
begin to address these issues but additional money will be necessary to do all the renovations that are needed
at this facility.
Commissioner Gordon asked whether Hillsborough Elementary was going to be closed in the future
and Susan Halkiotis said that the decision was made several years ago not to close Hillsborough Elementary
and they are committed to this. Commissioner Gordon supports bringing the older school up to date.
Superintendent Bridges made reference to the middle school, which is on the bond referendum and
said that this schoal would came on line in 2003-2004. He emphasized that for the next several years, Orange
County schools may have issues that cannot be funded because the funding is not available in the CIP.
e. Fund Balance Policies and Update
Orange County Schools
Superintendent Bridges said that last year they did not fund any items in their expansion budget.
Their new high school opens next August. They will probably go below maintaining a 2.7°!o fund balance.
Their designated fund balance is a little over $2 million at this time.
Keith Cook made reference to the 2.7°~. It seems that with the uncertainty of the budget in future
years, that the school board should have same flexibility for spending that money for priorities the school
system has set.
Commissioner Brown asked if the Orange County school system plans to take the start-up costs for
the new high school from their fund balance and Superintendent Bridges said that they are uncertain if they
have enough money in the fund balance to cover these costs. At some paint in time, they will be asking the
County Commissioners far assistance.
Finance Director Ken Chavious said that with the Certificates of Participation they took out for the
Cedar Ridge High School project, there may be some funds available, probably between $300,000 to
$500,000 to help toward the start-up costs for Cedar Ridge High School.
Commissioner Carey said that it looks like the vast number of start-up costs would be recurring
casts. He asked how many of these costs would be covered by State funding. Superintendent Bridges said
that very few of these costs will be covered by the State because the school would not be full in their first year
of operation.
Commissioner Brown asked how many students they expect when the High School opens and
Superintendent Bridges said 720 students far grades 9, 10 and 11. There will not be any seniors at the new
High School this first year.
Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools
Nick Didow said that he provided a written response to the letter from Chair Halkiotis of September
11 to
Commissioner Brown mentioned the health concerns at Chapel Hill High School. She asked how
the mold issue is being addressed in the renovations.
Nick Didow said that they have indoor air quality issues in several of their schools. They have done
some things but some issues remain to be addressed.
Assistant Superintendent for Support Services Steve Scroggs said that some of the air quality
issues include water infiltration, the lack of outside air, and training custodians in how to care for a building
regarding air quality.
Nick Didow read from his letter as follows: "The $2 million will be used to remedy conditions related
to air quality and other health and safety concerns. We anticipate that the bulk of the money will be spent at
Chapel Hill High School where the needs seem to be the greatest. If there are sufficient funds, we also will
address other air quality issues at Estes Hills and Phillips as we identified in our original request far $7 million
in renovation monies." These matters will be taken up at the October 4t" meeting of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro
City School board. He said that he would be willing to provide to the County Commissioners information on the
significance of the problems they have with air quality.
Commissioner Brown said that she would like to see how the money from the last bond has been
spent and what is planned for the money from this bond referendum.
Chair Halkiotis said that each County Commissioner has received a copy of the report an the
environmental management program for Chapel Hill High School. He noted that the State of Florida recently
enacted legislation that severely limits carpeting being placed in new schools. He thinks that this is a good
idea. He said that it was almost impossible to maintain and clean carpets.
Commissioner Jacobs made reference to the list of priorities far renovations on page two of Nick
Didow's letter as presented by the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools. Superintendent Pedersen said that with
the exception of the acquisition of the high school site, the list reflects the priorities for renovations.
Commissioner Jacobs thanked both school boards for addressing the most significant health and
safety issues first. He feels like as a County Commissioner that he would be derelict if he did not encourage
both school boards to address the health and safety issues first in any renovations that are planned. This
should be the highest priority in the schools.
Nick Didow said that they have changed the way they think about renovations during the last six
months. Prior to that time, they thought of renovations from building to building and while they did many things
that were needed, they did not address some of the health and safety issues. These issues are now first
priority. He is quite pleased with the change in mindset, which the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board has
adopted.
Commissioner Gordan made reference to the letter from Nick Didow dated September 17t" and
asked about High School #3.
Nick Didow said that if they open High School #3 in 2005, they would have two years in which they
would need 500 more seats at the high school level somewhere else. They expect to revisit the enrollment
figures and projections in thinking through the specifics of High School #3. By the earliest possible time that
they might be able to open High School #3, they expect to have a deficit of 500 seats.
Chair Halkiotis noted that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools received over a quarter of a million
dollars more than it should have because the projections for this year were 700 more students and the actual
student increase was just over 400.
Regarding fund balance, Superintendent Pedersen said that $2,579,184 is the best estimate of their
undesignated fund balance at this time. They will have a firm figure once the audit is finished.
John Link said that bath school systems have spent some of their fund balance for items, which will
be continuing. He will bring a list to the County Commissioners for their review.
Commissioner Jacobs asked if the school system has an undesignated fund balance, why would
they need $150,000 in a contingency account. Superintendent Pedersen said that the contingency is used to
move money into accounts that need funds.
f. Review of Policy on Planning and Funding School Capital Projects & Capital Funding Policy
John Link explained the various attachments. He said that there are three major projects that are
part of the bond referendum in November -the two elementary schools in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School
system and the middle school in the Orange County School system. The County Commissioners have
received information on Elementary School #9 and the first two phases are complete. The next phase is the
design and construction approval stage. He made reference to Elementary School #10 and said that he would
recommend that, knowing that the school board and the County Commissioners need to move expeditiously on
Elementary School #10, the County Commissioners should consider this as an item for the work session
agenda for October 22nd. He recommended that the Commissioners invite school board representatives and
Carrboro representatives as Environment and Resource Conservation Director David Stancil presents what
can be done an this site based on Carrboro's requirements. Attachment 1f-4 gives a tentative timeline far
moving on with this process.
With reference to the planning money for Elementary School #10, Chair Halkiotis said that he has a
concern with moving ahead with planning money before the bond referendum is approved by the voters in
November.
Nick Didow made reference to the timetable in attachment 1f-4 for Elementary School #10 and
asked when would be the earliest date to begin construction. John Link said that the timetable should probably
be amended because there is also consideration for a park on this site.
Nick Didow said that they were fortunate to be able to use Elementary School #9 or the Scroggs
design as a prototype in order to have some chance to meet the 2003 opening date. They would like to open
both schools at the same time. They plan to bid these in parallel to realize some construction cast savings and
only go through the redistricting process once. He said that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board would
be grateful to the County Cammissianers far anything they can da that would allow them to move forward with
Elementary School #10.
Commissioner Jacobs said that it would be good to meet with Carrboro officials. There are a
number of things to be straightened out as far as the role of Carrboro in the park/school development. There
may be some cost savings to the school system because of the park.
Commissioner Gordon asked Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board when they needed the
planning money for Elementary School #10. Nick Didow said that they were hoping to be in a position on
November 7t" if these funds are approved of moving forward with #10. That is why they petitioned the County
Cammissianers several months ago to make a decision to put Elementary School #10 somewhere an this
property.
Commissioner Brown asked about the reasoning for building two schools at one time.
Superintendent Pedersen said that they were associating Elementary Schools #9 and #10 with the concept of
building schools at the same time in order to use prototypes and save on design costs. The two schools are
on opposite sides of the district and it would make no sense to open a school in Meadowmont and completely
redistrict to fill up that school and balance enrollment, and then open another elementary school a year later on
the opposite end of the school district and redistrict again.
Gloria Foley said that in dealing with enrollment you have to look at what happened historically, like
with Scroggs. She said that #9 would fill up immediately. The other issue is that there were a number of other
counties that packaged bids for mare than one school and saved a substantial amount of money when they bid
out the projects. She does not think that you can discount what happens with kids when you move them one
year apart with redistricting, especially at the elementary school stage.
Keith Cook said that he hears Chapel Hill's concern and he is looking at the availability of money,
which is going to help Orange County's district to plan for their projects.
Susan Halkiotis feels that the renovations for Hillsborough Elementary School cannot wait. These
need to be done for safety and health reasons. She agrees that we need to lank at haw many schools will be
opening. She hopes to be involved with these discussions of which projects will proceed and when.
John Link said that he has discussed with each superintendent timelines for each school for each
specific project. We can pursue band anticipation notes as soon as the voters approve the bond in November.
He understands the urgency far planning money far Elementary School #10. If the bond did not pass, the
planning would stop until an alternative way could be worked out to pay for the school.
Commissioner Jacobs made reference to a comment that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools will
not realize the amount of savings by building two schools simultaneously than was thought. Other times it
sounds like there will be savings. He still has some questions and would like to see same answers in writing.
He would like an explanation on haw Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools perceives the timetable and what the
imperatives are in that timetable.
Commissioner Brown has questions about the cost of schools because the projected costs of both
of these elementary schools exceed the amount that has been set as a standard. She does not want to hear
that it costs more to build in Chapel Hill. She does not accept this.
Nick Didow said that the school board would welcome the opportunity to present any and all
information for Elementary School #10 and justification for the projected cost of that school.
g. School Facilities Task Force Report Draft
Commissioner Gordon made reference to pages six and seven of attachment 1g and the capital
cost per seat for each school system. She said that what this shows is that in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City
School system the cost per student seat is $22,524 and the cost per student seat is $15,023 for Orange
County Schools. She said that this was an error. The actual is $21,227 for Orange County Schools when New
Hope Elementary is included. She said that there should be a more detailed analysis.
Commissioner Gordon made reference to pages 19 and 20 and said that the report says that the
task force agrees that membership provides the most realistic picture of the actual number of students
attending school. She said that we need to have the conversation about what projection methods to use.
2. ISSUES IDENTIFIEDIPRESENTED BY ORANGE COUNTY SCHOOLS
a. Information Sharing Protocol
Susan Halkiotis said that far the Orange County Schools the school board has had discussions an
two issues. One had to do with the projection formulas used in the last round of budget and bond discussions.
Some used a cohort survival formula, which surprised the school board because it had not previously been
part of any of their discussions as to whether or not to adopt that method. The Orange County School system
has used its own formula for projecting enrollment and growth. The second issue was cost per student per
school building. She made reference to Commissioner Cordon's comments about the error in the numbers far
Orange County Schools. She said that when information like that is shared on the cuff, there is no opportunity
to examine where the figures are coming from. The school board wants to communicate well and correct
misconceptions. She would like to see this kind of information before a meeting where everyone is together in
order to read it thoroughly.
Start-Up Costs for Cedar Ridge High School
Discussed in above comments.
c. School Funding Task Force
Dana Thompson said that they formed a School Funding task force in response to the budget
discussions. The task force was tremendously diverse. The charge from the Orange County Board of
Education to the task force was to look at all sorts of alternatives available, to make the findings known to the
board along with recommendations on which to pursue, and how to use any funds generated in terms of
programs or teacher salaries. They have had four meetings so far. There is just one alternative out there and
that is the possibility of a special district tax, just like the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schools. The school board
talked about recommendations at the last meeting. The task force will have a final meeting in 1-1/2 weeks and
will make some recommendations, which will be considered by the Orange County Board of Education. The
group is optimistic and enthusiastic.
Commissioner Gordon distributed a handout on information sharing which explained the timing of
staff student population projections, information shared with the Capital Needs Advisory Task Force, and
related issues.
3. ISSUES IDENTIFIEDlPRESENTED BY CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOLS
a. Capital Projects
Nick Didow said that there were two items to bring to the County Commissioners' attention. The
first is planning for the third high school. He said that the staff expects to identify some sites in the southern
end of the district for the location of this high school. The school board will probably make a formal decision
about the site at their meeting of October 18t". The second item is the matter of Elementary School #9 and the
community gym. He presented an architectural drawing of the community gym far Elementary School #9.
Steve Scraggs spoke about the architectural drawing. It becomes a full high school floor to aver
4,000 square feet. It would be open for the public. The Town of Chapel Hill will provide the $700,000, which is
the difference between the multi-purpose room and the community gym. It will cost an additional $250,000
which the school system will have to pay. The developer is going to contribute $236,000.
Nick Didow said that the Chapel Hill Carrboro City School Board has offered to contribute $250,000
toward this project and has invited the Town to indicate how they would return this amount to the school
system. One of the options is cash repayment over a future year ar two. Another option is to return that in
some value of additional asset. He assumes that this significant detail would be something worked out among
the County Commissioners, Town of Chapel Hill, and the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City Schaal Board.
Commissioner Carey feels that Chapel Hill should pay the entire $750,000 at a term which is
reasonable. He supports the project based an that assumption. He questions the value for value assumption.
He supports the involvement of the County Commissioners in any further discussion.
Commissioner Gordon noted that the idea of co-location of facilities and getting as much value as
possible is something she supports. If this co-location does not occur and the gym is not built, it would cost up
to $2 million to build it separately. Even if the Tawn does pay the entire $750,000 there is a plus far the Town
of Chapel Hill collaborating with the school system.
John Link made reference to the Policy an Planning and Funding School Capital Projects and
recommended that the County Commissioners put in writing to the school board that, as it relates to the final
accounting phase, there will not be any school funding at the end of this process. The funding may take two or
three years to be returned from the Tawn of Chapel Hill.
b. Potential Merger of the Two School Districts
c. Communications
d. Anticipated Issues That Will Impact 2002-03 School Budgets
4. COUNTYIOCSICHCCS INFORMATIONAL REPORTS
a. Approved 2001-02 School Budgets
b. CIP Revenue Update
c. 10th day120tn ~ Student PopulationlMembership
d. Review of Schools Adequate Public Facilities Ordinance & Levels of Service
5. ADJOURNMENT
With no further items to discuss, the meeting was adjourned at 10:3Q p.m. The next meeting is
scheduled for October 1, 2001 at the Government Services Center in Hillsborough, North Carolina.
Stephen H. Halkiotis, Chair
Beverly A. Blythe, CMC