HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 10-13-2011 APPROVED 11/15/2011
MINUTES
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN
JOINT MEETING
October 13, 2011
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Bernadette Pelissier and Commissioners
Valerie Foushee, Alice Gordon, Pam Hemminger, Barry Jacobs, Earl McKee and Steve
Yuhasz
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT:
COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Frank Clifton, Assistant County Managers
Gwen Harvey and Michael Talbert and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker (All other staff
members will be identified appropriately below)
CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEMBERS PRESENT: Mayor Mark Chilton and
Aldermen Randee Haven-O'Donnell, Dan Coleman, Lydia Lavelle, Joal Hall Broun, Sammy
Slade, and Interim Town Manager Matt Efird
CARRBORO BOARD OF ALDERMEN MEMBERS ABSENT: Jacquelyn Gist
Welcome and Opening Remarks (Chair Pelissier and Mayor Chilton)
Chair Pelissier and Mayor Chilton welcomed everyone and introductions were made.
Chair Pelissier said that this is the first time that Orange County and the Town of Carrboro has
met with just the two entities.
1. Southwest Branch Library Sitinq Criteria
Chair Pelissier said that Asset Management Director Pam Jones and Library Services
Director Lucinda Munger would be making this presentation.
Overview
• County Commissioners reviewed proposed site selection criteria and development
steps on 10/6/11
• Criteria based on nationally established guidelines for siting library facilities
• Major elements
• Guiding principles
• Screening criteria for sites considered
• Development Steps
Guiding Principles
• Site to provide optimal service to the highest number of residents in the entire System
service area;
• Equitable service throughout County
• Wide angle view
• Development/construction costs
• Operating costs
Three-Phase Sitinq Criteria
Phase One
• Visibility
• Is it highly visible to the Community?
• Capacity
• Can site accommodate intended structure and site amenities,
appropriate infrastructure and long-term growth?
• Accessibility
• Access for pedestrian, vehicles, public transit?
Phase Two
Centrality
Does it make sense/provide benefit to things in close proximity (e.g. Schools,
retail, growth/development)?
Site Conditions, Allowances and Constraints
Regulatory/environmentally and operationally sustainable/ mitigation effort to
overcome deficiencies
Cost and Availability
Reasonable acquisition cost and development costs
Phase Three
• Community Preference
• Broad critique of site(s) by stakeholders
• Lease vs. Purchase
• Identify possibilities and most advantageous arrangement for acquisition
• Partnerships
• Identify possibilities and most advantageous long-term benefit
Major Development Steps
• Site Control
• Initial Due Diligence
• Regulatory Approvals
• Design
• Bid/construct
• Close out/occupy
Historical Design Process
• Committees appointed to:
• Recommend project architect via RFP process
• Provide input and review design options
• Library consultant for facility space planning
• County Commissioners approve final plan
Space Projections
Accepted practice "Guidelines for NC Libraries (1998)"recommends libraries serving a
population of 25,000 or more provide a facility equal to .65 sq ft per 1,000 residents
Southwest Orange County, including Bingham, Carrboro, Unincorporated and Chatham—
Northern Border
2010 Census= 28,343 x .65=minimum 18,423 square feet
2020 projected population = 33,028 x .65=21,468 square feet
Space Usage
estimated 18-22,000 Square Foot Facility
(not to scale)
Chair Pelissier said that the County Commissioners welcome all comments from the
Carrboro Board of Aldermen and she encouraged the public to speak on this issue at the
Board of County Commissioners' regular meetings.
Sammy Slade said that during the experience of the last siting there was a lot of
frustration on the part of the public. He suggested engaging the public earlier in the siting
process. It is important to have the community involved in this process.
Mayor Chilton said that the criteria set out in the abstract is very broad and what
concerns him is that the Board of County Commissioners are more concerned about the
accessibility of vehicles as opposed to other modes of transportation for this siting. He has
heard from various board members and it seems that what they want is a suburban library and
a large site with a lot of land. He said that this means that this library would be at the edge of
the municipality. He said that what was compelling about this idea was to have this library in
downtown Carrboro, and be more accessible to a more diverse population. He is worried that
the Board of County Commissioners is applying criteria that will drive a suburban library.
He said that the library should not be optimal to the most number of users but to the ones that
need it the most, like lower income households. He also has reservations about the chart that
shows the assumed space that is available for the needs of this proposed library. He said that
he is concerned that the Board is looking at criteria from the past and not looking at the future
library.
Joal Hall Broun said that she does not necessarily agree with Mayor Chilton. If it is
going to be a library branch for the County and southern Orange County has a robust bus
service, the accessibility is there. She said that there is still a large digital divide and there are
more people that need to get to a library. She said that she moved here in 1992 and she has
seen three library studies. She said that they are going to be entering a more difficult
recession and when they talk about suburbia they are talking about Carrboro "suburbia". She
said that she wants more commercial downtown rather than a library, which is a non-taxable
entity. She said that if they are going to have a deliberative process, then it should proceed.
The main criterion is how much money the County is willing to spend. This will drive the piece
of property that is purchased.
Dan Coleman spoke to Mayor Chilton about the process. He said that this is an official
meeting of the Board but it does not seem to be conducive for the Board of Aldermen to come
to an agreement or disagreement on this. He wants to know if the board is giving feedback to
the County as individual board members or as an entire board.
Mayor Chilton said that the Board of Aldermen has not discussed this topic in detail yet
and the members are only expressing their opinions. The board will take this topic and have a
formal discussion later.
Dan Coleman agreed that the cost may affect the siting. He said that the property
currently under consideration by CVS in downtown Carrboro would have plenty of space for a
library as well as parking. He said that this site might be a consideration if it fails with CVS.
He said that the cost issue needs to be at the forefront.
Lydia Lavelle agreed with Sammy Slade and urged the County to think about a two-
story library versus a one-story library. She said that, in looking at the estimated cost analysis,
if a site is selected in Orange County versus Carrboro, it looks like it is more expensive for
Carrboro. She asked about the proposal to change the zoning process to make it less costly
and time-consuming.
Commissioner Yuhasz said that he was suggesting a different zoning process for siting
some public facilities. This would make it easier and quicker for things to occur.
Lydia Lavelle said that she would like the Aldermen to consider this request.
Randee Haven O'Donnell made reference to the Phase 2 slide about centrality and
asked if the County was more interested in siting in a more central location because of the
study. She said that she had previously thought that a southwest library would need to be
sited more "southwest", which would be outside of the urban center.
Chair Pelissier said that she would not interpret it that way. She said that all factors are
being taken into consideration.
Randee Haven O'Donnell said that if the criterion for Phase 2 is centrality, then this
would lend itself to be closer to an urban area because the larger population is there. She said
that it does not make sense to put it further away from the urban center.
Dan Coleman said that there are no schools or retail west of Carrboro plaza and the
town limits and it seems that the criteria addressed Randee Haven O'Donnell's concerns.
Commissioner McKee said that, in his mind, centrality does not mean downtown or out
in Orange Grove, but it means central to public transportation and in the foreseeable future
that access to this library will be by Carrboro.
Mayor Chilton said that he would challenge his notion. He said that the Cybrary has a
lot of usage and he would doubt that most people arrive by car.
Commissioner McKee said that he remains convinced that the majority of the patrons
will use the southwest branch library and will access it by car. At the same time, he wants to
make sure that it is accessible by mass transit and that it is reasonably close to future
development.
Commissioner Jacobs said that he talked with Mayor Chilton about the library, and he
never advocated a lot of parking, single-story, or 20,000 square feet. He said that a lot of
people use libraries now for computers. He agrees with the people that are arguing that the
assumptions need to be considered. He said that the public should be engaged about this.
He said that a southwest branch looks different to the County Commissioners than it looks to
the Board of Aldermen.
Frank Clifton said that a building of this size needs to have access to water and sewer.
There were sites considered along 54 in the developed area. The goal is to avoid some of the
operational issues that the County deals with now that add costs to daily operations.
Dan Coleman said that he wanted to make sure that the transportation issue in
Bingham Township is not overstated.
Randee Haven O'Donnell said that she was on the last library task force and she was
connected with the librarians that were on the last two library task forces. She said that the
conversation is moving toward the "southwest corner" of Carrboro versus the urban notion of a
library. She said that she wondered what was driving the shift in the conversation these days.
Even a year ago, the Board of County Commissioners was looking at the previous site on
Hillsborough Road. She said that it seems that the trajectory is taking a sharp turn in a
different direction.
Mayor Chilton said that 20 years ago Chapel Hill moved its library on Estes Drive, which
did not have access to public transportation at that time. The Chapel Hill Town Council
addressed that problem by adding a short route that connected to an existing route up to the
library. This route is very inconvenient for residents. He said that this was not a forward-
thinking decision that was made. He said that his concern is that this is not being approached
the right way. He said that he would rather have a slightly smaller facility in the right place
than the ideal facility in the wrong place.
Joal Hall Broun said that she is going to suggest to the Town Board to take a map of
their town and put a circle around where they want a library and where they do not want it.
She wants to be real about how much money Orange County has.
Commissioner Foushee said that the best thing they have here is so the Board of
County Commissioners can hear the real issues that concern both boards. Orange County
needs from the Board of Aldermen what Carrboro expects out of this process. The cost will
drive what Orange County can buy and can build. If the Town of Carrboro wants Orange
County to site a library downtown, then it would be helpful if Carrboro could identify some
potential sites that would meet Carrboro's criteria and would meet Orange County's ability to
purchase and build. She wants to consider the people that will also be driving to this facility
because not everyone will be taking public transportation. She does not think that this changes
the trajectory of building a branch, but she thinks that this process has enlightened the County
Commissioners that there are some factors that were not considered in the first process that
must be considered in this one.
Chair Pelissier said that the fiscal reality will drive this project and this is not a short-
term issue. She said that the County Commissioners now need to look at the fiscal
sustainability of all decisions.
Commissioner Yuhasz said that he thinks that $1 million is too much for Orange County
to pay for a property. He said that the main question is the population that this library will
serve. He said that the density of Carrboro is much closer to a suburban density than it is to a
truly urban density. He thinks that the Board needs to look at a location that serves the
greatest number of people from the community.
Mayor Chilton said that Carrboro is the most densely populated municipality in the State
of North Carolina. He said that he believes the library needs to be in the most densely
populated area, which is downtown Carrboro. He said that, in looking at the density of low-
income families, Carrboro is the highest compared with Chapel Hill and rural Orange County.
He said that he thinks it is more important to serve the lower income areas than the Lake
Hogan Farms area.
Commissioner Hemminger said that she agreed with Alderman Broun and the cost is
the most important aspect of this process. She wants to move forward. She said that the
money spent and time spent going through the permitting process is taxpayer money.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the last siting process was not a good process and they
need to be more collaborative and engage the public more this time around. He said that the
County does have money in the CIP for this but he would hesitate to take a parcel of land off
of the tax rolls in the economic center. Joal Hall Broun agreed.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the notion of a southwest branch is a false construct
built to bring more support and it does not actually work. The question is if it is an urban library
or if it is a southwest Orange. If it is southwest Orange, then they can discuss how far out is
too far out.
Lydia Lavelle asked where in the timeframe is the decision of the Board of County
Commissioners to execute an option to purchase. She said that the public should be notified
of a proposed property before it goes to the elected board. The last time it came to the
attention of the public too late.
Commissioner Gordon said that the last process is not the process she thought the
County Commissioners should have followed, so they are trying to refine the process this time
to be more collaborative. She said that she was surprised that the CIP information is not in the
information tonight. She suggested nailing down the size of the facility.
Commissioner McKee said that the CIP number is around $8 million and Frank Clifton
said that they had estimated the land to be about $600,000 and the facility would be about $5
million.
Commissioner McKee said that money is going to be the driver on this because the
money in the CIP is different than the money being spent. Once the money is spent the
County has to figure a way to pay it back.
Randee Haven O'Donnell asked if the County Commissioners discussed costs last
week when they met.
Chair Pelissier said that the County Commissioners were only talking about the process
and not the costs. She said that one of the things missing relates to the operational costs
between a one-story versus a two-story facility.
Chair Pelissier said that the major issues that she heard were cost, the issue of
location/centrality, transportation, and the process.
Mayor Chilton said that he does have strong opinions on this topic and he does not
want to come across as ungrateful. He said that, on behalf of his Board, they are grateful to
work with Orange County in the early stages of this process.
2. Economic Development Overview— Oranqe County and Carrboro, and Update on
Quarter Cent Sales Tax Referendum
Economic Development
Economic Director of Town of Carrboro Annette Stone said that she is so pleased that
Orange County hired Steve Brantley as its Economic Development Director.
Steve Brantley said that he is excited about this conversation as he grew up in
Carrboro and lives there now. He said that this morning he attended a meeting this morning in
Greensboro of the North Carolina Economic Developers Association. There were several
hundred people at the meeting and they were saying that they envy what Orange County is
doing. He promised to look for every opportunity to assist Carrboro as needed. He spoke
about other collaborative efforts that Orange County is involved in (i.e., Durham County and a
water and sewer agreement for the Eno EDD, the Town of Chapel Hill for incubator locations
and startup companies, and the City of Mebane with the Buckhorn EDD).
Steve Brantley said that he and Annette Stone have been working together frequently
and collaboratively. The Economic Development Office will be previewing a new website soon,
which will include ways to share services and will showcase Carrboro's economic development
interests in that regard.
Dottie Schmitt said that Orange County has a revolving loan program as does the Town
of Carrboro. The programs are slightly different and they can easily work together to help the
citizens as much as possible.
Matthew Rybol, Manager of the Piedmont Food and Agricultural Processing Center,
said that they are a small food business incubator.
WHAT IS A PFAP??
• Small business
• Tobacco transition
• Eating Seasonal
• Farm to Fork
How Does the PFAP Work?
• Governed by Inter-Local Cooperation Agreement (Orange, Chatham, Durham,
Alamance counties)
• Orange County is Lead Agency for
• Legal
• Day today oversight
• Accounting
• Personnel Support
• Service area = 22 counties
PFPAP Can Provide Support By:
• Minimize startup costs
• Professional experience and advice
• Specialized equipment
• Product development & placement assistance
Mayor Chilton said that this project is government at its best.
Sammy Slade said that this is a huge opportunity for Carrboro to invest in. He spoke in
support of keeping as much as possible local.
Mayor Chilton said that he appreciated Alderman Slade's comments but he feels that
there are some land uses that the Board of Aldermen would not view as its goal for Carrboro
that may be appropriate for some of the County's Economic Development Districts. He said
that, given that Orange County has decided to invest a large portion of the '/4-cent sales tax for
infrastructure in the EDDs, he wonders if the County was going to consider other smaller
economic development investments that compete with some of the ideas that are moving
forward right now. He said that bringing a new water main underneath NC 54 would open up
water access to several commercial property owners. He would like for the County to look at
projects within municipal boundaries.
Chair Pelissier said that the County Commissioners are open to suggestions. The
County is embarking on a new course as it relates to economic development.
Commissioner Yuhasz said that he has always envisioned redevelopment projects as
part of the economic development efforts.
Chair Pelissier said that the important thing to remember is that the EDDs comprise
approximately 2,000 acres. Orange County has very little light industrial zoning. The EDDs
are set up for that purpose.
Sales Tax Update
Assistant County Manager Gwen Harvey gave an update on the '/4-cent sales and use
tax, which will be on the November 8th ballot. She showed a poster and a flyer. The three
things to which the tax will not apply include groceries, gasoline, and medicine. She gave the
history of the referendum. This time the Board of County Commissioners has decided to focus
50% on schools and 50% on jobs. The two school systems have been promoting their own
priorities as far as how the dollars will be spent. It is primarily around technology upgrades as
well as facility improvements. The money has to be appropriated on a per-pupil basis. The
other 50% is for sustainable, well-managed economic development. This is in the interest of
the whole County to be able to bring forth sustainable business development.
Twenty percent of the individuals that are expected to contribute to this tax are tourists.
The Board has made a ten-year commitment to using the dollars in this way. After ten years,
the Board will decide how to use the tax. She encouraged everyone to become engaged in
this process of getting this referendum passed. She then showed the PSA for the referendum,
which is on YouTube.
3. Various Updates
a) Chapel Hill Carrboro City Schools Elementary #11 Status/ Schools Adequate
Public Facilities Ordinance (SAPFO)/Year Around Schools
Frank Clifton said that the Board has had this discussion with the two school boards
about scheduling Elementary School #11 and the plan is to have the issuance of the bonds
sometime in August of next year.
Clarence Grier said that the approximate cost is $21 million and the debt service would
be about $1.4 million over 20 years.
Craig Benedict said that the SAPFO has done well to recognize the growth in the
school systems and give the County time to plan ahead.
Mayor Chilton said that there was a news article earlier this fall that seemed to suggest
that there was going to be a pending residential development moratorium in Orange County
because some of the SAPFO provisions were going to be triggered. He asked if the article
was off base.
Craig Benedict said that the SAPFO ordinance says to wait for the November 15tn
numbers and he thinks they should wait until November 15th to check the ordinance related
numbers. If there is still 176 elementary school students on November 15th, there is still
capacity of over 30-35 seats left for elementary school. This does not equate directly to
housing units. This could relate to around 150-250 housing units that could still continue.
b) Update on Carrboro Tourism Board
Mayor Chilton said that Carrboro is awaiting the groundbreaking of Carrboro's first
hotel, and when this happens, Carrboro will adopt its hotel tax. The Carrboro Board of
Aldermen has not had any detailed discussions on the usage of these funds, but will be
working with the Chapel Hill/Orange County Visitor's Bureau to help promote the Town of
Carrboro and to provide some visitor's services such as promoting the music festival, etc.
Commissioner Jacobs said that he hoped that the Town of Carrboro at some time
would invite Laurie Paocelli from the Visitor's Bureau to make a presentation on what she has
been doing and how the County and the Town can work together with the Visitor's Bureau.
c) Future Meetings
Chair Pelissier asked about feedback about this first time joint meeting between just
these two boards.
Dan Coleman said that he thought this was a very good meeting and the two boards
regularly meet on the same nights, so it is a good opportunity.
Lydia Lavelle agreed with Dan Coleman and said that just the two boards provides
more intimacy.
Randee Haven O'Donnell said that she likes this new format and it creates good
dialogue. She asked if there would be another opportunity to meet like this in the spring. It
was answered that it would probably be another year. Randee Haven O'Donnell said that
there might be a need to meet again before that.
Commissioner Hemminger agreed and said that she enjoyed this format.
Commissioner Jacobs said that there will be a meeting with all four governments to talk
about solid waste this winter, but he is open to meeting more often if it produces better
communication. He thinks that the communication between the governments in Orange
County has broken down to some extent. He said that opportunities like this should be
cherished.
A motion was made by Joal Hall Broun, seconded by Lydia Lavelle to adjourn the
meeting of the Carrboro Board of Aldermen.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
A motion was made by Commissioner Hemminger, seconded by Commissioner Gordon
to adjourn the meeting of the Orange County Board of Commissioners at 9:36 p.m.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Bernadette Pelissier, Chair
Donna S. Baker, CMC
Clerk to the Board,