HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 03-27-2000APPROVED NOVEMBER 1, 2000
MINUTES
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION
MARCH 27, 2000
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met on Monday, March 27, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. in
the boardroom at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, North Carolina. The purpose
of this meeting was to hold a work session between the Orange County Board of Commissioners, the
Orange County Board of Education, and the Chapel Hill-Carrbora City Board of Education.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Moses Carey, Jr. and Commissioners Margaret
W. Brown, Alice M. Gordon, Stephen H. Halkiotis, and Barry Jacobs
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Harmony Whalen
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Manager
Rod Visser, and Clerk to the Board Beverly A. Blythe (all other staff members will be identified
appropriately below}
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Susan A. Halkiotis
and members Robert H. Bateman, Keith Cook, Rick Kennedy, David Kolbinsky, Delores Simpson,
and Brenda Stephens
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION SUPERINTENDENT: Randy Bridges
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Elizabeth
Carter and members Nicholas M. Didow (arrived 8:55 p.m.), Gloria Faley, Valarie Foushee, and
Teresa H. Williams
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION MEMBERS ABSENT: Maryanne
Rasenman and Roger Waldon
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION SUPERINTENDENT: Neil Pedersen
NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE PERMANENT
AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE. ALL RECORDINGS OF THE MEETING
WILL BE KEPT FOR 5 YEARS.
1. COUNTYIOCS/CHCCS DISCUSSIONIPOLICY ISSUES
a. School Funding O tions Task Force Discussions
Chair Carey said that the information for this item includes a report of the results of the
task force discussions and some benchmark proposals that the Board is considering for adoption at a
future meeting.
Chair Carey thanked everyone who served on this task force. He feels that the
discussions were beneficial to all participants. He approached the task force meetings with the
assumption that not all members would reach consensus on all items. After tonight, he and
Commissioner Jacobs will proceed in making some final recommendations to the Board of County
Commissioners that are consistent with the charge given to them by the Board of County
Commissioners. He asked that all written comments be sent to him by this Friday so that a
recommendation can be made as scan as possible back to the County Commissioners.
Commissioner Jacobs agreed with Chair Carey and said that he felt the task force had a
full and frank discussion of the issues. He feels the representatives understood each other more after
the meetings. In reading the draft report, he feels it was an accurate representation of what was
discussed. He hopes that the school board members will make any changes that are necessary to
make sure that it adequately reflects their views.
Elizabeth Carter said that she found the task force meetings to be very fruitful. She said
that the school boards were reminded that the Commissioners were not talking about a cap, but more
of a target. She said that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board has not discussed the report.
Susan Halkiatis said that she and Keith Cook appreciated the discussions of the task force.
She reiterated her request that she made during the meetings asking that the Board of County
Cammissianers allow the school boards to present their needs and allow for same flexibility in the
funding of those needs. She also encouraged the Commissioners to recognize that both systems are
experiencing a lot of demands placed on them by growth and that building and startup costs could
skew any percentage that is set as a target. She is very appreciative of how Orange County has
funded their schools.
Chair Carey said that while some may look at the process as an end in itself, it is only the
beginning of meeting the needs of the County that are competing with the needs of the schools. The
County Cammissianers are looking at all of the needs in the County.
Elizabeth Carter said that this is the beginning of a new approach for funding schools. She
feels that all participants have a better appreciation for each other and the needs of all those
competing for County funds.
Rick Kennedy said that he appreciates the report. He would like to know what the
average spending per pupil is nationwide to see haw Orange County compares.
Keith Cook said that he would like to clarify the definition of mandates. The two school
systems have a different perspective on mandates.
Chair Carey talked about mandates and said that with federal and state mandates there
are some legal requirements. His understanding was that the school boards have a broader definition
of mandates that include some policy decisions that school boards can make which are not legal
requirements.
Keith Cook said that one of the mandates is that all children must be at grade level at
grade three. He said that no money is lost if this is not accomplished, but children do not learn if they
cannot read. As we look at mandates, he feels we need a bigger picture of what mandates are.
Chair Carey said that the history of the Board of County Commissioners shows that they
share the desire to da the best possible jab of providing educational opportunities for the children in
the school system so that the children can achieve their maximum potential.
Commissioner Gordon said that she read the material and saw agreements and
disagreements. She made reference to the difference between operating expenses and capital and
debt service and said that it is a percentage of the budget from the County's point of view. She asked
if there were any further comments about debt service and recurring capital.
Susan Halkiotis said that the concern and fear of those in the school systems was that in
the years that debt service and recurring capital have a higher demand than the school needs, it
would decrease the amount of funds that are available for operating costs.
Commissioner Gordon asked if the thought was that there should be two targets.
Susan Halkiotis said that there was a lot of discussion about breaking those items out
separately.
Elizabeth Carter likes the term benchmark better than cap. She said that there are certain
things that are needed when a new school is opened.
Susan Halkiotis said that the discussion was pointing out the pitfalls of lumping everything
together. She does not recall that there were any recommendations on breaking those things out
and setting separate targets.
Chair Carey said that this perception was consistent with what was discussed. He said
that the issue of separate caps was not discussed.
Commissioner Jacobs said that in the whole discussion of operating versus capital and
mandates, he feels that the word 'mandate' is confusing. He said that 'mandates' and 'imperatives'
are often confused. He said that it has always been the goal to work with the school systems to give
as much flexibility as possible because the money is all coming out of the same pocket.
Commissioner Gordon said that the Board of County Commissioners has articulated a
desire to use benchmarks and the school boards have articulated some concern and have asked far a
work group. She asked if the concerns are just going to be articulated tonight and if the
recommendation would come back to the County Commissioners for a discussion. She hoped that
there would be a consensus.
Keith Caok said that he was hoping that the County Commissioners would not move ahead
with one of the five plans presented to the school boards in December, but would continue meeting
until more of a consensus could be reached.
Chair Carey said that he did not see much change in perception between the two school
boards and the individual roles of school board members. The County Commissioners must balance
the needs of all sectors of the population in Orange County. Obviously, the dialog will not stop and
the process will not end.
Susan Halkiotis asked about the timeline and Chair Carey said that he would like for
school board members to make any comments to him or Commissioner Jacobs by this Friday. He
plans to present a recommendation to the County Commissioners next Tuesday far discussion and a
decision.
Commissioner Halkiotis suggested that the recommendation be presented next Tuesday
for further discussion. He does not think that a consensus can be reached.
Commissioner Jacobs said that one of the objectives was to have this process in place for
this year's budget cycle. He said that we would learn from this experience and move forward.
Bob Bateman said that the Orange County School Board has not had an opportunity to
discuss this recommendation. He would like to delay a decision until the Orange County School
Board has had an opportunity to discuss and make comments. He feels that mandates' needs to be
defined. He said that it was hard far him to accept a mandate from a governor who is going out of
business and wanting to have the best school system in the state. He said that both school systems
have come a long way historically. He feels that the definition of mandate is in the eye of the
beholder.
John Link said that this item is on the agenda next Tuesday night as a report which means
that the County Cammissianers will discuss this item and will probably come back at a subsequent
meeting with a decision within the next two to three weeks.
b. ProgramlStafflFacility Initiatives with Significant 2000-2001 Budgetary Impacts
John Link said that this material was provided by the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School
system .
Superintendent Neil Pedersen made reference to the memo in the agenda packet dated
February 10, 2000. He said that the school population is growing at a rapid rate. They expect to have
an additional 600 students next fall. This translates into some additional expenses for the Chapel Hill-
Carrboro City School system. He said that this is the fourth and last year of the Excellent Schools Act
and this puts a strain on the school's budget with regard to compensation. The Chapel Hill-Carrboro
City School system is going to try to be more competitive and increase compensation this year.
Commissioner Gordon made reference to the comment about teacher salaries and said
that compared with other salaries, teacher's salaries are not very high. If we value education and
value our students, we need to pay the teachers. She asked for existing class sizes and targets for
reduction.
Commissioner Halkiotis asked far clarification on per pupil allocations.
Neil Pedersen said that he has not received a per pupil allocation for 300-400 students this
year.
Randy Bridges said that the Orange County schools have received the correct allocation.
Commissioner Halkiotis suggested setting aside a contingency fund to handle increased
population during the school year.
Commissioner Gordon agrees that a contingency fund should be set up to handle
increased population during the school year.
Neil Pedersen said that he would be interested in making an adjustment in student figures
during the year. He said that the state used to adjust the per pupil allocation after the 10th day of
school, but it is now based on last year's enrollment or the state's projection for the next year. He
would rather not do any late hiring of teachers, but have the County adjust the student figures up.
John Link said that whatever decision is made would be an a per pupil basis. He would
presume the Board of County Commissioners would make their decision prior to July 1St, otherwise
there would have to be a continuing resolution, which means that the budget would be continued just
as it was the prior year until the Board makes a decision. He said that the budget could be adopted
with a contingency, and the adjustment would still have to be made on a per pupil basis.
Commissioner Halkiotis made reference to the state law regarding the per pupil allocation
and said that the state law may need to be changed to allow an allocation far an increase during the
fiscal year.
Randy Bridges said that Orange County schools do not have any new initiatives. He said
that some things are non-negotiable such as teacher salaries, utilities, and charter schools. He said
that another big issue is the startup casts for the new elementary school.
c. Site Development
Commissioner Jacobs made reference to the school construction standards and said that
he feels that schools need to comply with all the development standards imposed upon all citizens in
Orange County such as protecting existing vegetation, preserving buffers, trying to protect specimen
trees, and trying to minimize erosion. He asked that the Schools and Land Use Councils consider this
issue.
Commissioner Brown made reference to the definition of mandates and the general
understanding of school standards. She asked if this discussion could continue with other people and
if there could always be a discussion of continuing issues. She feels that a small group should
continue meeting and talking about topics so that each board can better understand the perspectives
and responsibilities of the other boards.
John Link said that improving the present school standards is another item that could be
discussed in a group setting. Perhaps the County Commissioners can list items far the group to
discuss.
Commissioner Gordon made reference to her memo about substantial equivalency. The
concept was to try to bring the old school buildings up to standards.
Commissioner Carey said that the school boards and the Board of County Commissioners
could develop a list of issues to be discussed.
Commissioner Brown offered to participate on asub-committee work group.
d. Possible Co-Location of Durham Tech Satellite Campus with New High School
Campus
Chair Carey said that the Board has had discussions with Durham Tech about the
feasibility of a satellite campus in Orange County. There was a fair amount of enthusiasm at the initial
meeting of the group about the need for some additional training courses and facilities in Orange
County. At the present time there are well over 100 courses being taught by Durham Tech in Orange
County. He said that the subject of co-locating a facility on the site of the new high school in Orange
County was discussed. He asked for any feedback from this proposal from the members of the
school boards.
Susan Halkiotis said that the Orange County School Board has been interested in using
school sites that will benefit students and citizens. She said that there has been interest in pursuing
what the mechanics of such an agreement might look like.
Nick Didow arrived at 8:55 p.m.
Susan Halkiotis said that her Board is interested in information the committee can share on
further discussions about co-locating a Durham Tech satellite campus at the new high school.
Commissioner Brawn asked about the progress of the planning for the new high school.
Susan Halkiotis said that there has been grading and they have seen preliminary layouts of
athletic fields and buildings.
Superintendent Randy Bridges said that they have moved forward with architectural
drawings on the new Orange County High School. On the total layout of the facility, there would be
available acreage for a separate facility that could house Durham Tech, but not additional square
footage in the school building.
Susan Halkiotis said that the Orange County School Board would be happy to show the
building plan for the new high school to the Commissioners.
Commissioner Gordon asked how the high school was being set up to expand to a 1,500-
student high school.
Superintendent Randy Bridges said that there are two designated areas on the main
academic part of the building that will be compacted and studded out for expansion if needed.
Commissioner Jacobs said he is interested in the transportation component of the new
high school.
Superintendent Randy Bridges said that they have met with the DOT to start talking about
the new high school, and that the DOT said that no one has ever come to them before a school has
been built to talk about the structure of roads.
Commissioner Halkiotis made reference to the Community College task force meeting and
said that there was a significant amount of dynamism present from the Durham Tech representatives.
He said that the Skills Development Center has meant a lot far Durham Tech programming in meeting
the needs of citizens in southern Orange County. He said that with this possibility, there could be a
consolidation of all the mini-sites and an expansion of opportunities for the people in central and
northern Orange County.
2. ISSUES IDENTIFIEDIPRESENTED BY ORANGE COUNTY SCHOOLS
a. Significant Elements of 2000-2010 CIP
Superintendent Randy Bridges said that the majority of items in the CIP are items that are
needed for the new high school. He said that in the year 2007, three of Orange County's school
facilities would be 50 years old -Central Elementary, Cameron Park, and Efland-Cheeks. Anew
middle school was also added to the CIP which is not funded.
b. New Middle School
Randy Bridges said that this was an item that was put in the CIP that is not funded at this
time. The information in the agenda relates to program capacity. He said that A. L. Stanback Middle
School is the newest facility, and a mobile unit was put there this year.
Susan Halkiotis said that some programs that must be provided have to be put in separate
classrooms, and it really cuts into the original capacity of the school (i.e., exceptional children).
Commissioner Gordon made reference to the regular classrooms being converted to other
uses and asked if it would be helpful to build rooms specifically for the other programs.
Randy Bridges said that there are some resource classrooms, but it depends on the needs
of the students as to how much room is needed.
Keith Cook spoke about the exceptional program and how a woman moved here from
California for the excellent programs in the Orange County school system. He said that the
exceptional program is going to continue to grow because of the emphasis that is being put on it.
Commissioner Brown asked about addressing the space for the additional programs in the
school standards.
Randy Bridges said that the state had a layout from the number of projected students as to
the additional space that would be needed for the programs.
Commissioner Brown asked how the high school standards that were adopted a few years
ago play into the development of the new high school.
Superintendent Randy Bridges said that the initial piece was that when we said a thousand
students that the requirement said that we had to have a 1500 core. You plug this into DPI and they
give you a plan that it should look like this and have this many classrooms.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that maybe the standards should be taken out and reviewed.
The exceptional children programs need to be considered in the standards. He said that if a school is
being built with these needs in mind, the price of the school is going to rise.
Commissioner Brown made reference to the use of the Northern Human Services facility.
She said that almost 100 children are using this facility per day far Head Start and day care services.
She said that maybe Head Start could be built into the elementary schools and day care facilities
could be built into the high school.
c. CommunitylSchoal Media Center Shared Usage New High School
Randy Bridges made reference to the new high school. He said that the front entrance
leads into a media center that could be shared with the community.
Brenda Stephens said that once the task force decides the feasibility of the Durham Tech
satellite campus, it would be helpful and beneficial to the Durham Technical Community College if the
library is there. She said that each year the public library enters into a contract with Durham
Technical Community College to provide library services. It would be very convenient if the satellite
site was at the new high school.
Commissioner Gordon said that she would like to have additional information about what
kind of library is being planned and what kind of services would be needed in conjunction with
Durham Technical Community College.
Commissioner Jacobs said that it seems feasible to consider this request in context with
the community college. He agrees with Commissioner Gordan in that there are many requests far
different kinds of libraries and so some determination needs to be made about the basic unit of library
services provided in Orange County.
Commissioner Halkiotis asked for additional information on what the County is spending
for libraries in Orange County.
Commissioner Brawn would like to see the casts of the library in a bigger context.
Chair Carey said that the Board could discuss this after the Community College Task
Force gets further along with their discussions and recommendations.
Bob Bateman said that this idea would be something that the Joint Schools and Land Use
Council could address with regard to co-location.
d. Recreational Park (New Elementary School Site
Randy Bridges spoke about the eleven acres which was for sale at the site of Orange
County's new elementary school site to accommodate a park. He asked if the Commissioners would
be interested in pursuing some kind of joint venture in purchasing same of the land to put a park on
this site.
Commissioner Gordon said that she supports the acquisition of this eleven acres and
asked for additional information.
Commissioner Jacobs said that there is a possibility that this 11 acres could be donated to
the County. He referred this issue to Planning Director Craig Benedict.
Bob Bateman said that it was stated at the last joint meeting that if the school system
owned the land, the Commissioners would be interested in building a park.
Chair Carey said that the County Commissioners needed additional information for further
consideration.
Commissioner Brown supports getting the property and co-locating some active recreation
with the elementary school. She said that she was not sure that the County had money to develop
parks. She said that state money and payment-in-lieu would be possibilities for funding.
Rick Kennedy talked about the advantages of co-locating and allocating money for
education.
3 ISSUES IDENTIFIED/PRESENTED BY CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO CITY SCHOOLS
a. Sianificant Elements of 2000-2010 CIP
Superintendent Neil Pedersen made reference to the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School
Board CIP. He said that there are significant items in the CIP to renovate their alder schools to bring
them up to standard. There is a need for another elementary school as soon as possible. Next year,
the elementary schools in Chapel Hill-Carrboro will be at capacity. They would like to have another
elementary school by 2003-2004. He said that the standards were followed for this new elementary
school, with some inflationary square-foot costs. Also, additional funds were included to expand the
gymnasium to full-scale. There is also a request for funds far additional land far future schaol sites.
b. Acquisition of New School Sites
Steve Scroggs, Interim Assistant Superintendent for Support Services, said that 11
potential sites were reviewed initially and that was narrowed down to four sites for new schools. He
said that there is an urgent need to purchase a site because the sites are disappearing quickly.
Commissioner Jacobs asked Steve Scroggs if he had contacted Carrboro about sites in
the northern transition area and Steve Scroggs said that they have and the site showed on the map is
designated as a school site in that plan.
Commissioner Gordon asked about projections and was told that additional information
would be available at the Assembly of Governments meeting scheduled for March 30, 2000.
Nick Didow said that at the Schools and Land Use Councils meeting, there was a
discussion about the possibility of upgrading to a community gym at the new elementary school. The
estimate for doing this is $715,000. He has spoken with Mayor Waldorf about this passibility and she
is very eager to entertain some joint planning and discussions about this community gym.
Commissioner Brawn said that she understood that the issue of upgrading the gym
previously was because it was so close to Southern Park.
Commissioner Jacobs asked Steve Scroggs to bring the site plan for the 34 acres for the
Erwin Raad site to the Assembly of Governments meeting on Thursday.
4. COUNTY/OCSlCHCCS INFORMATIONAL REPORTS
a. Timetable for Student Generation Rate Study
Planning Director Craig Benedict gave an update on the student generation rate study. He
said that he is working with a consultant and hopes to bring a contract for the County Commissioners'
consideration within the next few weeks. The information should be available within 90 days after the
consultant is hired. He said that in early April a contract would be executed with a consultant. He
said that the student generation rates would play an important role in the adequate public facilities
ordinance.
Commissioner Halkiotis asked that caution be exercised in selecting a consultant because
the last time a study was done there was duplication of the information that had already been
generated by the two schaol systems.
Craig Benedict said that the student generation rate study would be done for the two
separate districts. When impact fee analysis is done, there are housing value considerations that are
part of the equation for the impact fees.
Commissioner Brown asked about the timeframe in addressing the impact fees far Orange
County.
Craig Benedict said any change of rates has to go to a public hearing, which would be the
end of August at the earliest. He said that impact fees could be changed by September or October.
b. Trends in Student Population
This information was provided in the form of charts in the agenda abstract.
The boards agreed that the staff would came back with a model for the enrollment
projections and bring it back to the school boards and Board of County Commissioners for approval.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further items for Board consideration, a motion was made by Commissioner Halkiotis,
seconded by Commissioner Brown to adjourn the meeting. The next meeting will be held an
Wednesday, March 29, 2000 at 7:30 p.m. in the meeting room of the Government Service Center in
Hillsborough, North Carolina.
Moses Carey, Jr., Chair
Beverly A. Blythe, Clerk