HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 19990930APPROVED 1217199
MINUTES
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
WORK SESSION
SEPTEMBER 30, 1999
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met on Thursday, September 30,
1999 at 7:30 p.m. in the Board Room at the Southern Human Services Center, Chapel
Hill, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Alice M. Gordon and
Commissioners Margaret W. Brown, Moses Carey, Jr., Stephen H. Halkiotis, and Barry
Jacobs
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant
County Managers Rod Visser, and Deputy Clerk to the Board Kathy Baker (All other staff
members will be identified appropriately below)
NOTE: ALL DOCUMENTS REFERRED TO IN THESE MINUTES ARE IN THE
PERMANENT AGENDA FILE IN THE CLERK'S OFFICE. ALL
RECORDINGS OF THE MEETING WILL BE KEPT FOR 5 YEARS.
Chair Gordon called the meeting to order. She announced that the staff
prepared a draft agenda for the October 13th meeting for the Schools and Land Use
Council. The Commissioners will also be talking about adequate public facilities with
Planning Director Craig Benedict. The Joint Planning Agreement public hearing only
has one agenda item which should take only 30 minutes. From 8:00 - 9:00 p.m., there
will be a BOCC work session with a pay equity update and a discussion about the
flexible development amendments that were held over. The meeting will be adjourned
by 9:00 p.m. She said that Mebane Joint Planning was on the agenda for tonight, but if
time does not permit, it will be discussed on October 12th. She noted that a time needs
to be set to meet with the members of the Mebane Town Council.
Commissioner Halkiotis reiterated that he would not meet in a private residence.
He wants to meet in a facility to accommodate all citizens, the handicapped, the press,
etc.
Commissioner Carey suggested that the Board agree on a time to go into a
closed session.
Chair Gordon said that they would go into a closed session no later than 10:00.
There was a consensus of the Board to start the closed session at 10:00.
1. Corbin Downs Traffic/NCDOT Report - Fiscal Impact
Hillsborough Planning Director Margaret Hauth and Hillsborough Town
Commissioner Ken Chavious were in attendance.
Craig Benedict said that at the Hillsborough/Orange County joint meeting of the
elected officials, the County and Town staff were asked to look at the fiscal impacts of
the Corbin Downs proposal on County services. The fiscal impact models for the County
have been for residential development only. He distributed the classic tables that are
used and noted that the residential fiscal impact model is in need of an update. Also,
there are some assumptions that also need an update like the differentiation between
multi-family, single-family, townhouses, student generation rates, and the value of
housing. He mentioned that if the residential analysis for Corbin Downs was in the
County it would show a positive cash flow. The apartment complex would show a
negative cash flow. When the single-family, adult care, and assisted living are added to
the apartment complex, there would be a positive cash flow. The assumed taxable value
of the units that were given by the developer were reasonable for residential. However,
Craig Benedict felt that some of the others were unreasonably high. Even with those
high numbers there was only a marginal surplus for the County. These figures do not
account for capital expenditures; for example, what it would cost to provide a school. He
referred to Table #1 and Table #2. He said that table #1 shows another way to figure
the residential fiscal impact. He discussed items 1-9. This model takes all of the
expenditures in those various departments (items 1-9) and calculates the cost per
person in the entire County. A per capita cost is then calculated for what it takes to do
the community maintenance function. After adding this together approximately $1,293
per person would be spent to allow the County to provide its services to each individual
that would be in this subdivision.
Commissioner Carey asked if any Public Works was used.
Craig Benedict said that Public Works was not used.
Commissioner Jacobs asked if Public Works counted solid waste.
Craig Benedict said it would be a separate provision eventually. He said that
looking at it now, he does not think the $76 should be in there.
John Link said it is not a problem because part of Public Works includes the cost
of maintaining the solid waste collection centers.
The total cost to provide services to the resident population of this project would
be over two million dollars. The calculated amount of residents for this project is 1,938
people. He explained that the non-resident population includes employees who come to
work, people who come to visit, patrons, and how much traffic is generated from those
employees. He said the amount of traffic that would be generated from this project
would be approximately 35,000 trips per day. When the non-residential population is
added to the residential population, the cost is increased to three million dollars. He said
that a lot of these calculations are assumptions, but he tried to be as realistic as possible
with the material that was available. Table #2 shows how much revenue would come
from various sources from this project. The County receives revenue from those
categories from this table. He used only revenue that the County would receive given
that this project would be in Hillsborough. The total amount of revenue is approximately
three million dollars. The figures from the expenditures and the revenue came out very
close. There is only a $4,000 surplus. This is assuming that the values are correct and
that there is complete build out. Some of the values of the retail, office, industrial, and
hotel properties are in line. The hotel value that was calculated at two million dollars an
acre for five acres is unrealistic. He used the values that were provided by the
developer. If those values all show up and they build 1.6 million square feet of non-
residential property, and they build all of the residential, there would almost be a wash
financially.
Chair Gordon asked if it was operating and not capital.
Craig Benedict said it is not capital. The road infrastructure is the other capital
item, and that would be handled by the developer and then turned over to NCDOT in
some manner. The cost for water and sewer lines are included in an agreement
between the developer and the Town of Hillsborough. There is a deficit in the revenues
at first for the water and sewer, but eventually it becomes very profitable because of the
impact fees and water revenues. Concerning the amount of retail and office space, in
the County there is now two million square feet of office space. This project is proposing
1.2 million square feet of retail and office space. This would be a 58% increase over
what is in the County at this time. In Hillsborough, there is about 350,000 square feet of
office and retail space. This project would be a 340% increase over what is in
Hillsborough now. He went over the 15% increase in retail space. He said that there
are many transportation issues. NCDOT supported the comments of the Town of
Hillsborough and the Orange County staff about doing additional analysis on the
intersection of 1-40 and Old 86 and 1-85 and Old 86. NCDOT plans to study the widening
of Old 86. If Old 86 is widened, a median is very important for controlled access. It
allows for more movement on the highway. There are different right-of-way
requirements for a four-lane divided highway than for five lanes. The developer does
own property on both sides of the road. Craig Benedict said that the purpose of this
meeting is to come up with some recommendations to forward to Hillsborough in writing.
Chair Gordon said that the Board could ask questions or make comments for
potential things on the list that they might propose to recommend. This will come back
to the meeting on October Stn as an agenda item. She said that at tonight's meeting,
they could get a list and then formalize it on October 5tn
Commissioner Halkiotis said that the biggest expense is not recorded. He
referred to the planning done for University Station. This project will require a new
middle school. At least 18 million dollars will be required to build a new middle school.
The land that is being considered is not in the town yet, however, Hillsborough is talking
about annexation. If Hillsborough could tax for schools he thinks they would not be
interested in building out this development. The County is asking the people of Chapel
Hill and Carrboro, who pay over 66% of the taxes in this county, to support building a
middle school in central Orange County because of an action on the part of another
Board. He appeals to the folks in Hillsborough to do the right thing. He mentioned the
services that are being given to Hillsborough and said that some of the services would
have to be stopped. He does not want this to happen, but it seems inevitable since the
County will be responsible for an 18 million-dollar middle school.
Commissioner Halkiotis mentioned that the developer was going to increase the
school board's own required impact fee. He said the developer should be asked to pay
for the impact fee and the school. He sees this as a bunch of Florida money trying to
take advantage of a good situation where they can make some good percentage gains
on their money at the expense of Orange County and the Town of Hillsborough.
Commissioner Jacobs said the way he reads the fiscal analysis and the
conclusion that this project would be revenue-neutral for the County is based on three
questionable assumptions: 1) the developer's figures are reasonable, 2) if the non-
residential uses are not all built out, and 3) assuming that there is no accounting for
capital costs for schools or solid waste. He does not see this project as value neutral.
He also felt that the residents of Hillsborough pay County taxes and it is an impact for
them as well.
Chair Gordon went over the points of interest. 1) this is not revenue neutral; 2) it
should be proposed to the developer that they donate land, build a school, etc.; 3) if the
non-residential development is not built, it would be a real problem for the Town.
Chair Gordon asked if the Board wanted the staff to write down what is said and
pull it together as best they can, or tell them exactly how to proceed on each item.
Craig Benedict said that he could go through the report and make notes from
what he hears tonight. He made reference to page 2 of the handout. This page
addresses the various areas that are impacted in the County. The primary impact area
is traffic at Old 86. On attachment #1, page 5, there is a complete analysis of
signalization, how the road should look, concern about the internal access road, etc. He
said the staff could formalize this analysis into a recommendation.
John Link said that the traffic impact analysis is straightforward and the staff
could make a recommendation based on this analysis.
Commissioner Jacobs pointed out several things that he wants included. He
made reference to the DOT Comments, specifically the "other" section. He said that
DOT was uncharacteristically strong in asking for more analysis on the roads. He would
like to include what DOT is strongly recommending. He mentioned the internal turn
lanes, and the fact that DOT considers that this road is going to be a major connector.
He thinks that they should consider having access roads. He asked about the access
points along Old 86.
Craig Benedict said that there would be three signalized intersections, one at
Lafayette, one at the primary, and one at the retail area.
Chair Gordon mentioned that there was not much recreation space, which might
be something that should be noted. The financial impact is the big item of interest to the
Board. The County would not be in a position to increase the County services to pick up
this slack. There would be no additional staff hired to service this development.
Commissioner Jacobs mentioned open space, and said that the developer calls
this a neo-traditional village-type atmosphere, and it is not that. There is no central
focus. Open space is not guaranteed except for buffers and setbacks. If the County
were doing this project, they would want preservation and open space. The Economic
Development District standards eliminated buffers between sections of the EDD so that
there is a portion where there was no buffer. He asked if this is still out.
Craig Benedict said that the preservation of existing trees to form a buffer on the
east side of the development would be good.
Chair Gordon asked Craig Benedict to use the list from Commissioner Jacobs
and other comments to bring back more formalized recommendations for the next
meeting on October 5th
Commissioner Brown asked about the action dates for Hillsborough. She asked
if the annexation was first and when that would occur.
Craig Benedict will ask Hillsborough to provide information on their process. He
said the Planning Board is meeting on October 5th to deliberate and consider making a
recommendation. He does not think the Town Board of Commissioners will vote on it in
October. They have not given staff formal direction. He said that before the property is
annexed, the Town of Hillsborough would have to approve the water and sewer
extension agreement. Also, Hillsborough would want to formally approve those things
the developer has offered. After this happens, the town attorney would work with the
Town to be sure it is included in the development plan. He reiterated that there would be
a substantial deficit for the first three years of the project. The only way the Town can
make this work in the general fund is to have the impact fees from the development as a
condition of annexation.
Commissioner Brown asked about the traffic issue and if the County would have
an opportunity for input.
Craig Benedict said that traffic is not just an internal issue. All of the traffic in
Hillsborough now has a regional impact. The services that the County provides because
of increased traffic includes EMS, etc.
Commissioner Brown said the County should emphasize what will be needed for
this project, such as libraries and parkland. She said Hillsborough has a definite deficit
of active recreation property.
Craig Benedict said that the location of the park is internal to the project. He
asked if the County Commissioners are suggesting that the park be located in a different
location that would be available to other citizens.
Commissioner Brown said yes, put the park where other citizens can use it.
Craig Benedict said that if a park is going to be used to its highest potential, with
lights, it should not be in the middle of residential property.
Commissioner Brown said that this project should have a sufficiently large
recycling center. She commented on the amount of square footage in the commercial
area. It is surprising that there is 400,000 square feet of retail, non-office space.
University Mall is only 220,000 square feet. The 400,000 square feet is two normal size
malls.
Craig Benedict said that the plan for Corbin Downs includes two 200,000 square
foot retail centers. One is a superstore center that is more regional and the other would
be more for the local area.
Commissioner Brown asked about transportation. She thinks that a project of
this size will require a bus or transportation system. She asked where the resources
would come from to provide this. She would also like to see the developer build the
school that is needed for the project.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the life of downtown is an issue. He said that
transit stops in the development are being provided in the plan. The developer was
asked to contact the Orange County Housing Corporation because the Town has asked
that affordable housing be put into the development as well as transportation to the site.
Regarding the recreation, Commissioner Jacobs asked if there was a standard per
resident, and said there should be an industry standard. The Hillsborough Planning
Board is meeting the night this is coming back to the County Commissioners. He asked
if it was okay to have the letter forwarded in draft form to the County Commissioners so
that they could see what the staff is presenting to the Town Board. He asked Craig
Benedict to tell what he found out when talking to Cary's Planning Department.
Craig Benedict said that two issues were discussed. The first issue was about
large communities that were mixed-use developments. There are three major projects in
Cary where the non-residential languished to the point where 20 years later the
commercial portion was never done. In some of the other communities there have been
amendments in the last ten years to provide for more residential areas. The town has
tried to preserve that non-residential space because that is what makes the project work
from a fiscal standpoint. Schools was the other issue that was discussed. The idea
about the developer providing the school is, if the size of the developments are to the
point where three developments at 1,000 units each would actually fill an elementary or
a middle school, then they are willing to build the school.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that if the County does not ask the developer to
fund the entire cost of the school that the citizens should be told how much their taxes
will go up and for how long as a result of this project. He questioned the amount of retail
space and thinks that there would not be enough people to frequent there.
Chair Gordon said the developer appears willing to cooperate. She suggested
that Hillsborough ask the developer about some of these issues. She said the Board
would forward something to the Town of Hillsborough after their October 5t" meeting.
Commissioner Halkiotis made reference to the next meeting and asked how
deep into the Adequate Public Facilities they were going to go.
Chair Gordon said as deep as possible.
Geoff Gledhill said that interestingly, Cary has moved ahead on their Adequate
Public Facilities Ordinance, but Wake County has not. He said that Hillsborough,
Chapel Hill, and Carrboro need to be in support of the Adequate Public Facilities
Ordinance for it to work. Wake County has not moved ahead because they do not want
to build the necessary schools.
Commissioner Brown said she received an email that Johnston County is limiting
the number of building permits being issued each year to control their development. The
staff will check on this.
Commissioner Jacobs would like to add to the recommendations that it is
significant that there is cooperation with Hillsborough on the Corbin Downs project. He
appreciates that the Hillsborough staff and one of the elected officials came to listen to
the County Commissioners.
2. Strategic Communications Plan
Cable Television
Chair Gordon said that she and Commissioner Jacobs discussed this previously.
She said that the first three parts; the cable television, the press release and media
relations and the direct telephone access does not require additional expenditure and a
lot of it is under way. The next three issues need to be developed a little more.
Commissioner Brown said that the Internet site was sent to the IT Committee.
She was at that meeting. The goal is to start televising from this room by the first of the
year.
Commissioner Carey said that a recommendation will be coming back to the
County Commissioners with what needs to be done to begin televising a delayed
telecast around the first of the year at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel
Hill. It will take additional time to prepare the Hillsborough site. The recommendation
from the Cable Television Committee and Staff will come to the Board of County
Commissioners with a recommendation in mid-December. The Hillsborough room has
some technological challenges.
Commissioner Brown said that as they look at future additions to the courthouse,
they should consider a room that is cable ready where there could be school board
meetings and other meetings televised.
John Link said the County would be charged for televising each meeting but that
the cost is reasonable.
Commissioner Carey said that the funds are in the budget for televising the
meetings.
Chair Gordon said that she would like better quality than the model that was
done.
Commissioner Brown agreed and said that the lighting was not good and that the
camera did not focus on who was talking.
Commissioner Carey said that the company recognizes this and that it was just a
test. The quality would be better after everything is set up for continued telecasting.
Commissioner Halkiotis agreed with Commissioner Brown in that there needs to
be a plan for this telecast in the reconstruction of the courthouse.
Commissioner Carey said they would be coming back with a plan with the
associated costs and the timing.
Chair Gordon asked what the Board wanted to do about this item.
Commissioner Brown said that the County Commissioners will need to make
decisions on expending a considerable amount of money up front in order to begin
televising their meetings, plus the per session cost. These are decisions that will need
to be made prior to moving forward with this item.
Chair Gordon said that this report could be adopted for the short-term and they
would wait for the report coming out in November before making a financial commitment.
Press Releases and Media Relations
Commissioner Halkiotis referred to the Crisis Management issue. He
commented that the communications via email worked very well during Hurricane Floyd.
They learned about dealing with the non-English speaking population. He feels there
needs to be a group of people, non-EMS people, to form an advisory group from certain
elements of the population to make suggestions and recommendations so that the
Hispanic population is informed during an emergency. He feels there needs to be an
advocate.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the Advisory Board on Aging was concerned
about how the frail seniors were handled during emergencies. Outsiders sometimes
bring a different perspective and we need to figure out which groups need to be
contacted. He made reference to pages 6-7, Generating and Crafting Press Releases.
He mentioned that the new Assistant to the Manager position is a liaison between the
Manager and the Board of County Commissioners in posting information on the County
web page. It is important to identify a person who is responsible for automatic press
releases. If something fell through the cracks, such as notifying the Hispanic population
about emergency issues, this person would handle that.
Internet Site
Commissioner Brown mentioned the feedback of sending this report to the IT
Committee. Their review of it was that all of the things listed on this page needed to be
done. There is not a web master. It is dangerous to think that things can continue to be
added to the web page. There could be significant cost impacts to the County's website.
Commissioner Halkiotis asked why there was not a web master.
Commissioner Brown said this needs to be a new position.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that there is not a separate web master for the
Orange County school system.
Commissioner Brown said that the Board could ask Buck Tredway if he would
like to be trained, but it is a much bigger job. The IT Committee suggested that
information not be added on by different people. Keeping the web site current and
accurate is the job of the web master.
Commissioner Halkiotis said that he is troubled about budgetary issues. Before
he would vote for a new position he would want to be convinced that a full-time web
master needed to be hired. He suggested hiring a consultant.
Commissioner Jacobs said that the Board needs to articulate what they want for
this plan as far as the level of service. He feels that some of the other issues need to be
decided regardless of what they decide for the level of service they want to give the
citizens of Orange County.
John Link said that when he goes to a web site, he is instantly impressed if it is
on the ball and up to date. It is death if the web site is clearly not being updated.
Commissioner Halkiotis referred to a class at Orange High School that received a
grant from Cisco Systems for $60,000 for the students to learn to be web masters. He
feels that there are resources between the high schools and the University for this.
Commissioner Brown said that people expect the government web sites to be
accurate. She also mentioned a side issue that was discussed at the IT Committee
meeting. This issue was the software that the Planning Director wants to purchase for
the Planning Department. This would enable the County to use the web site as a citizen
access point for all of the information and data about planning. She said there are some
core decisions that need to be made about the network and the information we want to
provide to our citizens.
Chair Gordon said that there are a lot of issues related to confidentiality, etc.
John Link said that another huge issue is going to be E-government. Citizens will
expect to be able to do work with the government via the Internet. He said that this is
almost another dimension of government.
Commissioner Brown said that the IT Committee needs the Board to pay
attention to them.
Chair Gordon asked how the Board wanted to handle the Strategic
Communications Plan. She asked if they wanted a Crisis Management Report.
Commissioner Halkiotis just wants the small peripheral groups brought in.
The staff will handle this and bring it back.
John Link said they could put together a multi-faceted advisory group that could
critique how the County is communicating with these groups.
A motion was made by Commissioner Halkiotis, seconded by Commissioner
Jacobs that the Board accept the Strategic Communications Plan through page 8, item
C.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
3. Water/Sewer Boundary
Commissioner Carey said that there was agreement on what the map should
look like for current service and interest areas. Hillsborough ceased attending the
meetings regularly after this agreement because the map was their main concern.
Hillsborough's concern was that OWASA would cut off a big piece of their service area.
The placement of the boundary lines was the most significant issue that was agreed
upon. Commissioner Carey referred to the rest of the document that addressed Land
Use and Planning issues that transcend OWASA's responsibility. He said that he was
concerned that the schools were not involved in this discussion and cannot recommend
that the Board adopt item C, Sizing of Lines on page 13.
Chair Gordon said that one of the concerns was the sentence that states, "public
sewer lines extended to provide service to an adverse public health condition or
essential public facilities cannot be used for other purposes or other parties except to
remedy another adverse public health condition." Some people thought that it should
also say, "or essential public facility."
Commissioner Carey made reference to the Emergency Water Transfer item on
page 15 and said that he feels that this constrains OWASA in its ability to achieve its
commitment to the users and did not reflect reality.
Chair Gordon made reference to the Emergency Water Transfer and said that
she feels that allowing emergencies to go on for one year is too long. She disagrees
with Commissioner Carey on this.
Commissioner Jacobs said that defining an "Adverse Public Health Condition"
was an important issue. It was a great advance over the current system that led to rare
decisions to take care of severe situations. A new definition was created. The options
have implications for land use and for some of the policies. It was decided that before
anything is adopted the Board needs to refer to the staff and the Planning Board for their
feedback. Regarding the issue of public purposes, a lot of the discussion revolved
around extending a line to address an adverse public health condition and investing in
the infrastructure. The recommendation of the majority was that it did not make sense to
site another public facility when extending a line to remedy an adverse public health
condition.
Commissioner Carey said that they contradicted themselves because they said
that schools should be sited in a way that facilitates the extension of lines rather than
tapping on to them.
Commissioner Jacobs said that OWASA presented a history of its emergency
water transfers, and very few of them had lasted for more than 90 days. This is making
it more restrictive on OWASA when there has never been a problem with extending an
emergency indefinitely.
Chair Gordon said she did not understand why this is restrictive if few instances
have gone beyond 90 days, and now it is being extended to a year.
Commissioner Jacobs said that OWASA was concerned because they felt that
the three jurisdictions would not all agree and they would be able to veto what OWASA
might feel was something that needed to be done to serve its customers. OWASA felt
that the wording that is in the emergency issue should also be the wording in extending
beyond the County's jurisdiction.
Chair Gordon asked what should be done with the Water/Sewer Boundary report
now. A lot of the document was unanimously agreed upon. She asked how the Board
wanted to handle this
Commissioner Halkiotis said that more discussion needs to take place before a
decision could be made.
Chair Gordon said that all of the major issues have been highlighted. This could
be brought back for discussion at another meeting.
Commissioner Jacobs said it should be broken into two parts: 1) the issues
arrived at by consensus; and 2) the controversial parts deleted and have staff bring
back the non-controversial part.
Chair Gordon suggested that this issue be brought back as an agenda item.
Commissioner Carey said it has not been referred to any other advisory boards.
He feels it should be referred to the Planning Board.
Geoff Gledhill said it could become a part of the Joint Planning Agreement.
Chair Gordon said it should be brought back as a decision item.
4. Mebane Joint Planning
This item is on the agenda for October 12th. The Board will try to schedule a
meeting with Mebane before October 12tH
5. Closed Session
A motion was made by Commissioner Jacobs, seconded by Commissioner
Carey to go into closed session a) Pursuant to G. S. 143-318.11(a)(1) in order to
prevent the disclosure of information that is made privileged or confidential by G. S. 143-
318.10(e) and
b) "To discuss the County's position and to instruct the County Manager and
County Attorney on the negotiating position regarding the terms of a contract to
purchase real property," NCGS 143-318.11(a)(5).
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
ADJOURNMENT
A motion was made by Commissioner Halkiotis, seconded by Commissioner
Brown to adjourn the meeting. The next regular meeting will be held on October 5, 1999
at 7:30 p.m. in the F. Gordon Battle Courtroom in the new County Courthouse in
Hillsborough, North Carolina.
VOTE: UNANIMOUS
Alice M. Gordon, Chair
Beverly A. Blythe, Clerk