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HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes 02-08-2011 APPROVED 3/15/2011 MINUTES ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS WORK SESSION February 8, 2011 7:00 p.m. The Orange County Board of Commissioners met for a work session on Tuesday, February 8, 2011 at 7:00 p.m. at the Southern Human Services Center in Chapel Hill, N.C. COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT: Chair Bernadette Pelissier and Commissioners Valerie P. Foushee, Alice Gordon, Pam Hemminger, Barry Jacobs, Earl McKee, and Steve Yuhasz COUNTY COMMISSIONERS ABSENT: COUNTY ATTORNEYS PRESENT: John Roberts COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager Frank Clifton and Clerk to the Board Donna S. Baker (All other staff inembers will be identified appropriately below) 1. Senior Oranqe County Staff Ethics Policy County Attorney John Roberts said that after the General Assembly adopted a law for all Board of County Commissioners to adopt a code of ethics, he was directed by the Board to develop a senior staff ethics policy. He said that it was requested that this be brought back to a work session for more discussion because there were a significant amount of questions. He said that he removed the word, "knowingly", and he also removed any references to family members owning businesses. Commissioner Gordon thanked John Roberts for bringing this back to the Board. She asked how much this wording of the staff policy should track with the Board of Commissioners' policy. John Roberts said that there were a lot of concerns about listing a spouse's name on a disclosure statement and spousal requirements from department directors. There was particular concern because staff is not elected officials. He does not think that this should track exactly the same with the policy of elected officials. Commissioner Gordon made reference to Article 2, Section1 (page 3 of the agenda abstract) related to #2 and doing business with Orange County. She said that she would think that you would want to approve the employment and the withdrawal. In #2, text beginning with the word "unless" should be deleted and the following language inserted "unless approved in writing by the Orange County Manager." John Roberts said that the personnel ordinance now provides that a staff person seeking other employment has to get written approval from the County Manager. Commissioner Gordon said that there should be some sort of cross-reference here. Frank Clifton further clarified this. Commissioner Jacobs said that he found this confusing and does not understand how someone could seek employment with anyone doing business with the County when they are already working for the County. He said that this seems such a rare instance that it is almost an impossibility. Commissioner McKee said that his scenario for this particular instance would be the department head of Maintenance working part-time for a lawn care company that is contracted with Orange County to take care of the ball fields. This department head would be approving the company that hires him. The Board agreed that for Article 2, Section 1 #2, the new language will be, "unless approved in writing by the County Manager." Commissioner Yuhasz asked about the disclosure statement. He said that he is not sure what a Senior Staff Disclosure Statement that no one gets to see does in providing a benefit in an ethics policy. Commissioner Jacobs said that if senior staff is worried about people knowing who their spouse is, and if it is a closed personnel document, then there should not be any problem. Frank Clifton said that there is a difference between the policies of elected officials and senior staff. The staff records remain sealed. Commissioner Yuhasz said that if the County is going to have a disclosure statement that is part of an ethics policy, then the County Commissioners should be able to see what that disclosure statement says. He said that the disclosure statement should be tailored so that it gives the public the information that needs to be known and does not violate the aspects of senior staff employment situations that should not be made public. John Roberts said that he and the Manager would need to discuss what would be in a disclosure statement for public view. He did not consider a disclosure statement something for the public. Frank Clifton said that some of this information is already known because it is in the personnel file. As long as the personnel record does not escape the personnel file, it is ok. If there is a public document, it will have to be a lot blander and would not give very much information. Commissioner Jacobs said that when he first came on this board there was a claim that a department head owned substandard housing and had it listed in the name of his domestic partner. This was not pursued, but there was no policy one way or the other. He said that he had not thought of this as a public document, but he only thought of it as a standard of conduct. He is not adverse to having a public document, but he agrees that it will have to be more bland. Commissioner Hemminger agreed that the disclosure statement should not be a public document. She would like to see the form the employees are being asked to sign before making a decision. Frank Clifton said that staff can develop this document and bring it back for the Board of County Commissioners' review. Commissioner Foushee agreed with the comments made by Commissioner Jacobs and Commissioner Hemminger. Chair Pelissier said that there is consensus that the Board wants to see the form and that it would not be for public knowledge. Commissioner Jacobs asked if it would be acceptable to ask spouses, etc. since it would not be open to the public. Commissioner Foushee said that she would not agree with that since there is a difference between elected officials and employees of the County. Chair Pelissier said that she understands that this is an ethical issue of conflicts of interest. John Roberts said that he can see Commissioner Jacobs' point that it is easy to conceal a business in a spouse's name. He could put in generic family members and not identify who the spouse or child is but only the businesses with which they are associated. The Board agreed with this. Commissioner Gordon made reference to page 3, Article 2 section 2 under "compensation", she suggested that there be written approval. Also, on Article 2, section 5 (page 4) under"disclosure", she suggested the language, "unless appropriately, authorized in writing." Commissioner Jacobs made reference to Article 2, section 2, second paragraph, the second sentence, he suggested starting the sentence with, "however, if..." John Roberts will be coming back to the Board with a revised version of this policy in the future to put on a regular agenda. 2. Discussion on the Process for the Public to Place an Item on a Reqular Board Meetinq Aqenda Chair Pelissier said that several times individuals have petitioned the Board to put an item on the regular agenda. The Board needs to discuss how to respond to the public about these types of requests. Commissioner Yuhasz agreed that there needs to be a process. He suggested having a standard policy with a subcommittee of this Board to evaluate these proposals. Commissioner Hemminger said that this came up on the school board, and there were guidelines that a board member would have to champion the item and there would have to be a majority vote to pursue the item. She thinks that the subcommittee would require a lot of staff time. Commissioner Jacobs said that he appreciated Commissioner Yuhasz's attempt to organize this. He tends to support all public requests just because they are asking, except for Confederate Memorial Day. He said that he would be willing to have a process to refer it to staff and the Chair and Vice-Chair to discuss at agenda review, and report back whether there is sufficient information to move forward or decline. Commissioner McKee said he feels like one of the reasons the County Commissioners are here is that the public can bring these items to the Board. He supported Commissioner Hemminger's suggestion to refer to staff by a vote at a meeting. If the Board chose not to refer it to staff, then so be it. Frank Clifton said that one of the difficulties they find with this issue is that whoever brings the Board of County Commissioners an item has already made up their mind about something, or the information is erroneous and out of context. To verify or do the research does take some time in these cases. Commissioner Gordon said that currently there is a subcommittee of the Chair, Vice- Chair, and Manager. She suggested that items be voted to refer to this subcommittee to work through the process. Chair Pelissier said that these citizens need a response back from the Board in some way or another. She would like to include a way to communicate back to the individual. Commissioner Hemminger said that this is what she likes about taking the vote to refer it to the staff because the public hears a response. Commissioner Yuhasz agreed with having a clear process. He does not think that there necessarily needs to be a motion and a second to refer to staff. His concern is that some of the motions that the Board has made has included a motion to study the issue and bring it back to the Board at a specific date. He does not necessarily want this. Some responses can be made in a letter. He would rather have a specific process. Commissioner Jacobs said that he personally agreed with Commissioner McKee about the importance of listening to the citizens. He said that Matters Not on the Printed Agenda is one of the few places that are unstructured and he likes this. He recognizes the need for order. He said that almost always the Chair refers these items to staff with the understanding that it will come back to the Board with a recommendation on how to proceed. He said that there ought to be some opportunity for a County Commissioner to bring the issue back up if they do not agree. Frank Clifton said that when the Board refers an item to the staff, that generally means that there will be some staff time involved to research. This means it will be on an agenda in the future, either as a report or something with further direction. Commissioner Foushee said that she thinks that all of the County Commissioners recognize their role as listeners and advocates, but there are limited resources to provide for every petition that comes forward. She asked that staff recommend a process of determining how the items go through the process. This might save some time. She said that there would have to be a set of standards that would determine how this item moves forward or not. Chair Pelissier agreed and said that the County Commissioners need to balance out the requests against how much staff time it would take and the resources available. She said that rather than voting on items that come forward, they could just refer it to the Chair, Vice- Chair, and Manager because if there is a vote, then some people tend to think that something will be an agenda item for sure. Commissioner Foushee said that it would be easier to put this in writing and then review it as a Board. The Board agreed to have something in writing about this process and then the Board would review and approve the process. Frank Clifton said that he could do a quick survey about how other local governments deal with this. Commissioner Hemminger said that all petitions should be presented at a public meeting and not just mailed in, etc. It needs to be part of the public process. Chair Pelissier agreed with this. 3. Discussion on the Process for a Member of the Board of Commissioners to Place an Item on a Board Meetinq Aqenda Chair Pelissier said that there is a Board of County Commissioners' procedure that addresses this already, but it is not followed regularly. The normal procedure is to petition each other during County Commissioners' comments and ask to have an item placed on an agenda. She does not think that this is a perfect process. She said that only one Commissioner should not be able to put something on the agenda because it requires a lot of staff time. Commissioner Hemminger said that she does not like the prior policy because it is not a public arena and if you bring it up at meeting, then Board members can weigh in and then follow the same process as above. She said that this needs to be public and it should go through the process as items brought forth by the public. Chair Pelissier asked if everyone agreed that these items should be brought up at public meetings. Everyone but Commissioner Gordon agreed. Commissioner Gordon said that she would like to have some kind of balance between being hit with something at a meeting and having it submitted in a timely process for agenda review. A lot of times the County Commissioners' comments are late at night. Commissioner Jacobs said that he does have a strong feeling on how a Commissioner puts an item on the agenda. He said that a Commissioner should not be put to a higher standard than the public. Commissioner McKee agreed with Commissioner Jacobs. He said that if there was an item that was not necessarily popular with the rest of the Board, then it would never be on an agenda if there was a vote. Frank Clifton said that his career has not always been with a Board such as this that is very cooperative and works together. He said that you have to be careful with saying that any Board member can bring an agenda item because a future Board could be more divisive. Chair Pelissier said that her concern is that there would be items that two County Commissioners want that would take up an enormous amount of staff time. It was noted that perhaps there should be a consideration of whether the request would take more than two hours of staff time. Commissioner Jacobs said that he has no problem going to the Chair, Vice-Chair, and Manager for review, but he feels very strongly about anything that puts the County Commissioners to a higher standard than the public. Commissioner Hemminger suggested having County Commissioners bring up these items during public comment. Commissioner Foushee said that it would be helpful to institute a section in the meetings for the County Commissioners to bring forth petitions as does the public. It would follow the same process. Commissioner Yuhasz agreed with Commissioner Foushee and Commissioner Jacobs, but he thinks that the number of petitions that any individual Commissioner can bring at any one meeting should be limited. He thinks that it should come immediately after the public comments. Chair Pelissier asked if there was consensus to create a new item on the agenda that would be called "Petitions by the Board of County Commissioners", and the same process would be used that is used for requests from the public, which is to refer it to the Chair, Vice- Chair, and Manager for review. Commissioner Gordon asked about the form that the County Commissioners would bring these items forward. She asked when it would be appropriate for a Commissioner to ask about something that had already been brought up before. She would think that in that case it would be under Board Comments. The consensus is that petitions by the Commissioners would be after Public Comments. The Board agreed that the petition could be either stated orally or in written form and there is not a vote but it just goes through the process of review by the ChairNice Chair/Manager. Each Board member will be given three minutes total for petitions. Commissioner Yuhasz said that he does not want this process to preclude the possibility of asking for more information on an item. This new standard will be brought forth in writing to the Board, for the Board's review and approval. 4. Discussion on Historic Information for BOCC Meetinq Aqenda Abstracts Chair Pelissier said that the first question is how far back in history the staff should go in providing information. The recommendation is that it goes back ten years unless an item is deferred for further review. Frank Clifton said that there are a lot of issues that span more than ten years, and in that case, it could be referred back for further information. He wants to set a standard for items. He said that whatever the Board wants, the staff will do, but some things cannot be done quickly and requires a great deal of research. Commissioner Jacobs said that at some point he would like to have a discussion with going to more electronic means of communication and it would be much easier to provide a link to information. The County Commissioners all have laptops, but no one brings them to meetings. He said that it is very generous to add a staff person but it is not probable, desired, or needed. He said that he does have a lot of historical knowledge and just wants the other members of the Board to be brought up to speed. He said that the Board of County Commissioners has a policy that if something is going to take more than two hours of staff time, then the Chair and the Manager should decide whether it should be pursued. Commissioner McKee said that as a new Board member, he does ask a lot of background information and he does understand that if it does not fit into staff's work schedule then it can be delayed. He said that he does not expect staff to spend hours finding information that he only looks at for five minutes. Frank Clifton said that the context of this discussion is for items that are going on an agenda and what needs to be in the abstract for the Board to make a decision. Commissioner Hemminger said that she agreed with using as many electronic means as possible and the staff can provide links so that the County Commissioners can do their own research. Frank Clifton said that many times the background information is in a locked file and will not be available electronically. Commissioner Gordon said that agenda items should have the necessary information for the Commissioners to make a reasoned decision. The standard should be to have the information long enough to cover the subject but short enough to be interesting, and it should be whatever is relevant to the decision being made. As an example, if there is an item that involves a zoning ordinance or agreement, then it would be helpful to have an electronic link, regardless of how long ago the document was approved. For closed sessions, there should also be sufficient information provided, along with notification to the Commissioners before the meeting concerning the topics of the closed session items. Chair Pelissier said that there should probably be a drop dead date for information to be submitted for the agenda. Frank Clifton said that the staff tries to get items to the Board in a timely manner, but sometimes they are waiting on other agencies for information. Commissioner Jacobs said that he would hope that the Chair and Vice-Chair, at agenda review, could try and anticipate whether an item is complete or not. He said that this is organic and varies according to the item. He does not know if a policy could be made or not. Commissioner Yuhasz made reference to the question about how far back to go in the history and said that the simple answer is far enough back so that he can make an informed decision. This will vary depending on the item. He said that the majority of the Board and staff have a fairly limited duration with Orange County. He thinks that it is incumbent upon the two Commissioners with tenure to pay special attention to those items that have a long history. Chair Pelissier said that there is no hard and fast rule to give guidance to the County Manager. She said that the Board would proceed forward with the comments made. A motion was made by Commissioner Hemminger, seconded by Commissioner Jacobs to adjourn the meeting at 9:06 PM. VOTE: UNANIMOUS Bernadette Pelissier, Chair Donna S. Baker, CMC Clerk to the Board