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ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF EDUCATION
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO BOARD OF EDUCATION
JOINT MEETING
SEPTEMBER 30, 1997
MINUTES
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in joint session with members of the Orange
County School Board and the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board on Monday, September 30, 1997 at
7:30 p.m. in the Homestead Community Center, Homestead Road, Chapel Hill, North Carolina.
COUNTY COMMISSIONERS PRESENT:_ Chair William L. Crowther, and Commissioners Moses
Carey, Jr., Margaret Brown, Stephen Halkiotis and Alice Gordon.
COUNTY COMMISSIONER ABSENT: None.
COUNTY ATTORNEY PRESENT: Geoffrey Gledhill
ORANGE COUNTY SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Larry Haverland, and members
Bob Bateman, Keith Cook, David Kolbinsky, Richard Kennedy, Susan Dovenbarger and Delores Simpson.
CHAPEL HILL-CARRBORO SCHOOL BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT:- Chair Mark Royster, and
members Mary Bushnell, Harvey Goldstein, Elizabeth Carter, Kenneth Touw, and Nicholas Didow.
COUNTY STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr., Assistant County Manager Rod
Visser, and Deputy Clerk to the Board Kathy Baker. Other staff will be identified as appropriate in the body
of the minutes.
SUBSTANTIAL EQUIVALENCY OF SCHOOL FACILITIES:_Commissioner Gordon presented this item for
discussion with the School Board members. This would establish a school funding policy that would state
that all schools in Orange County, whether new or existing, should meet the basic standards established
for new schools or be substantially equivalent. She pointed out that all children deserve to have equivalent
facilities in which to learn. This issue has been briefly discussed at the Board of County Commissioners
meeting; however, the Commissioners wanted to talk with both School Boards before any action was
taken. Then, if a course of action was agreed upon, the Commissioners would adopt the plan and work
with the School Boards to establish this policy. This policy would establish goals and/or guidelines only
and would not be intended to overturn or replace the capital improvement plan.
Orange County School Board Chair Larry Haverland stated that his Board had reviewed and
discussed this proposal. They are unanimously opposed to its implementation. They feel that it is an
impractical policy. The Capital Improvement Plan addresses all of the needs in a cost effective manner.
According to Mr. Haverland, it is impractical to spend this kind of money on schools that will have "aged
out" by the time they have been brought up to equivalent standards.
Orange County School Board member Susan Dovenbarger felt that the proposal was well meant;
however, deciding on which improvements would bring a school up to substantial equivalency was a
"gray" area and would not be practical in terms of the money spent.
Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board Chair Mark Royster commented that this is a good concept;
however, the source of funding is of concern to the members of his school board. They would want to be
assured that it did not end up being an issue of "unfunded mandates" above and beyond the needs
identified as capital improvement needs.
Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board Member Harvey Goldstein felt that one of the issues was
that the basic standards for elementary schools emphasizes square footage. That is not something that
can be duplicated in the older schools.
Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School Board Member Mary Bushnell stated that they were interested in
participating because substantial equivalence could be the blueprint for improving older schools. It could
improve and give order to the Capital Improvement Planning (CIP) process. There would have to be
flexibility because the square footage requirement could not possibly be included in a substantial
equivalency plan.
Commissioner Gordon expressed surprise at the Orange County School Board's reaction. During
the time that she was Chair of the School Capital Needs Task Force in 1991, it was clear that there was a
wide range between the new and older schools in the quality of their facilities and that wide rage existed in
both school systems. She indicated that the Commissioners could work with the Chapel Hill-Carrboro
Board if they wanted to pursue this discussion. Perhaps the Orange County system would join in this
later.
Commissioner Halkiotis commented that he was not totally clear about the intent of this plan. He
felt that with the current Bond Referendum underway, this could represent an additional $30-$50 million
dollar price tag. Although many improvements could be made to the old schools, they can't be made into
new schools. He agreed to look at this proposal but was concerned about the possible price tag.
Orange County School Board Member Bob Bateman felt that this project would be cost prohibitive.
Commissioner Carey commented that what he heard the School Boards saying was they already
had a policy in place. However, a policy that is driven by the program needs of individual schools leaves
itself open to the idea of entitlements.
Commissioner Gordon mentioned that the reason that this was presented prior to staff completing
any preliminary work was because she felt that the School Boards should be a part of the process from the
beginning. This would be a complete partnership. If the School Boards committed themselves at this
point it would be to investigate and explore only. The basic standards would be a starting point but it was
likely that substantial equivalency would need to be specified for the existing schools, following the steps
outlined in the agenda abstract for this item. That agenda abstract is incorporated herein by reference on
page of these minutes.
Orange County School Board Member Richard Kennedy felt that there was already a system in
place for renovations of older schools. He commented that he felt comfortable with making decisions
based on what is visibly needed in each of the schools.
Chapel Hill-Carrboro School Board member Nick Didow stated that the members of the school
board had felt there was merit in this proposal. He stated that what they were agreeing to do was to work
with the Board of Commissioners to explore the possibility of substantial equivalency.
Orange County School Board Member Keith Cook commented that it was difficult to get the basic
needs of the students met each year. He did not want to come up with an additional list of needs to be met.
Mr. Haverland indicated that the Orange County School Board agreed that this represented the
possibility of unfunded mandates as well as the possibility of suggesting changes that would be
impossible to accommodate, such as enlarging existing classrooms. The School Board feels that the C.I.P.
exists to address these needs. Theywould be happyfor the Board of County Commissioners to increase
funding for those projects.
Commissioner Halkiotis mentioned that the Board of County Commissioners did, in fact, fully fund
the Orange County School Board's budget request. This Board of County Commissioners is working very
hard to meet the needs of all of the students.
Ms. Bushnell agreed that part of these costs are already covered in the C.I.P. She felt that this
proposal could be used as a method of prioritizing the C.I.P. projects. She commented that there were
parents in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro district who did want improvements made to the older schools.
Mr. Royster asked what definition of equivalency would be used? He requested that a definition be
established.
It was decided that the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School staff would look at this proposal and
communicate their findings to their School Board for discussion and then the school board would forward
their comments to the Commissioners.
MEMORANDUM OF AGREEMENT FOR PROVIDING COORDINATED SITE AND FACILITY PLANNING: John
Link mentioned that the Assembly of Governments has, for several years, stressed that that Towns and
County should collocate recreation facilities. The County and School Boards have discussed collocation
of schools and public recreation facilities. He and the school superintendents have worked together to
draft this Memorandum of Agreement. The responsibilities of each entity are clearly drawn. He mentioned
that the Commissioners have reviewed this memorandum and have suggested that the Schools and Land
Use Council should review this document and send a recommendation to each of the jurisdictions for their
consideration.
Mr. Bateman asked if this proposal would effect any projects currently under way.
Mr. Link indicated that it did not include projects currently under way. It would include future
projects so that it would be possible to determine prior to the completion of the planning stage if a library
or recreational facility was needed in the area.
Ms. Bushnell requested that wording be included to clarify that current projects are not affected by
this memorandum.
Commissioner Halkiotis agreed with the intent of the memorandum but he requested that it be very
carefully discussed. He felt that if the concept of building community was agreed upon it would be
possible to determine the most appropriate and practical means of providing public ownership of sites and
site improvements where public facilities are collocated.
Mr. Didow indicated that he agreed that that the Schools and Land Use Council should review and
discuss this memorandum. He commented that the staffs seemed to work well collaboratively; however, it
occasionally appears that the elected officials do not communicate with the same effectiveness.
Ms. Bushnell mentioned that the public does own these facilities.
Commissioner Halkiotis commented that Bill Boyarsky has mentioned collocationisharing of web
site updating.
It was agreed that the Schools and Land Use Council would review the Memorandum of Agreement
That agreement is incorporated herein by references on page of these minutes.
HIGH SCHOOL CONSTRUCTION STANDARDS: John Link mentioned that this item was being presented to
discuss a process for developing high school standards. At the joint May 6th meeting, both of the school
boards and the Board of County Commissioners agreed to create a committee to consider the
development of high school construction standards. Members of each School Board have been
recommended for membership. In addition to developing high school standards to complement those for
middle and elementary schools, the committee would specifically consider: 1) the ability to expand a new
high school's capacity from 1000 to 1500 students; 2) the location of any new high school; 3) energy
efficiency standards and daylighting; and 4) cost control and construction management. The committee
would begin meeting as soon as the Board of Commissioners appoint two members to serve. This
committee will meet for approximately 3 or 4 months.
Mr. Kennedy commented that these standards would be more likely to apply to Orange County
rather than Chapel Hill, because Orange County will likely need a new High School first.
Commissioner Gordon noted that it was difficult to know when Chapel Hill-Carrboro would need a
new high school, because the high school student population was growing so rapidly.
This item will be on the Board of County Commissioners agenda in the very near future so that this
committee can begin meeting.
SCHOOL SYSTEM REPORTS ON ABC PROGRAMS PROGRESS: The Board of County Commissioners
received reports from both school systems on the ABC Program progress. Neil Pedersen, Superintendent
of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro City School System, reported that all schools have either met, or exceeded
their goals for this program. McDougle Elementary School is expected to score much higher when the
next results are in; the current scores were affected by the fact that they are overcrowded. Randy Bridges,
Superintendent of the Orange County School System, reported that 7 out of 8 of their schools met or
exceeded their goals. The only exception was Hillsborough Elementary.
There was discussion of the results of these programs. It was mentioned by several officials that
the teachers and staff have done an excellent job. The Communities in Schools Project also received
congratulations for their success in identifying and meeting the needs of students outside of the
classroom.
INFORMATIONAL REPORTS: Items were presented in order to receive written information for discussion.
Those items were on the issues of Impact Fee Collections, the Impact of Charter School, Meadowmont
School Site, and the Southern Village Elementary Design/Construction.
Ms. Bushnell mentioned that the money for Impact Fees has been collected in a different waythis
year which may have contributed to the decrease in the total amount.
John Link suggested that the focus needs to be on the Impact Fees. He proposed that a task force
of both county and school staff could discuss what the present data reveals and what the implications are
of that information.
Commissioner Halkiotis mentioned that he and Commissioner Brown are bringing forward a report
on the Impact Fees. He has gathered information on what other communities across the county are doing
to cover to cost of building new schools. They will share this information with the other Commissioners
shortly.
ALTERNATIVE SCHOOLS: This item was presented to discuss options for developing an alternative
school. Chapel Hill-Carrboro Schools had indicated a desire to cooperate with the Orange County Schools
on developing and opening an alternative school. Neil Pedersen stated that a joint proposal was drafted
for an alternative school which would open in the fall of 1998. It would be a joint effort; however, a site has
not yet been found. His school board has allocated $100,000 in local funds. They have discussed using
mobile classrooms. Randy Bridges indicated that his Board had discussed this proposal. The have
questions about where the school would be located and if there is a facility available for this type of
school. They have not made provisions for funding this so they could not proceed this year, but they have
indicated that they are interested.
Mr. Bateman supported the concept of an alternative school but had concerns about where it would
be located.
Mr. Pedersen indicated that the intent of this alternative school would be for students with behavior
problems. The goal would be to have 30 students the first year with a maximum of 100 students when the
school was at full capacity.
There was consensus that staff for both of the school systems would meet and work together on
this proposal.
There was a request that the Cedar Grove facility be considered as a possible facility for the
alternative school. That will be researched.
ADJOURN:
There being no further business to discuss, the meeting was adjourned. The next regular meeting
of the Orange County Board of Commissioners will be held on October 6, 1997 at 7:30 p.m. in the Old
Courthouse, Hillsborough, North Carolina.
William L. Crowther, Chair
Kathy Baker, Deputy Clerk