HomeMy WebLinkAboutMinutes - 19911211 APPROVED MARCH 9, 1992
MINUTES
ORANGE COUNTY BOARD OF COMMISSIONERS
SPECIAL PUBLIC HEARING
DECEMBER 11, 1991
The Orange County Board of Commissioners met in Special Session
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December 11, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. for the purpose of holding a ublic
hearing on the matter of school p
1 capital needs, priorities and funding.
BOARD MEMBERS PRESENT: Chair Moses Carey, Jr. , and Commissioners
Stephen H. Halkiotis, Alice M. Gordon, Verla C. Insko and Don Willhoit.
STAFF PRESENT: County Manager John M. Link, Jr. , Assistant County
Manager Rod Visser, Clerk to the Board Beverly A.A Blythe, Finance
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Director Ken Chavious, Budget and Management Analyst Donna Hamlet, and
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Budget Director Sally Kost.
INTRODUCTORY REMARKS
Chair Carey introduced everyone at the Commissioners' table
including Mary Bushnell, Chair of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro School Board
and Ralph Warren, Chair of the Orange County School Board.
PRESENTATION BY JOHN LINK
County Manager John M. Link, Jr. presented information on the
projects that a 66 million dollar bond issue would include. He stated
that the School Bond Advisory Committee appointed last summer by the
Board of County Commissioners was charged with prioritizing $157 million
in capital requests from the two school systems. The proposed 66
million dollar bond would include 50 million for a new elementary,
middle and high school for Chapel H i ll-Carrboro and 16 million for a new
middle school for the Orange County system. The impact on the homeowner
of a 66 million dollar bond would be $210 the peak year for a house
valued at $150, 000. He explained that the revenues from the two 1/2
1
cent sales tax are used for school capital. The cost of these schools
are higher than those in other counties because the specifications are
higher, technology is incorporated into the facilities, the cost of land
is higher and an inflation factor is included.
THE PUBLIC HEARING WAS OPEN FOR CITIZEN COMMENT
LINDA HAAC,, representing the PTA Council for Chapel Hill-Carrboro
Schools and a member of the bond committee, stated that she understood
there was a consensus that Chapel Hill needed an elementary, middle and
high school and Orange County needed a middle school. The committee
concluded that even if the schools were merged, they would still need
these schools. She stated that new schools need to be built because the
present schools have no other space. The district is growing rapidly.
Each year there will be 300 more students. If these schools are not
built there will be overcrowding conditions. The schools now are over
crowded. She cited several examples and stated that they are at capacity
at the high school. She understands that in Orange County a new middle
school is needed to replace A. L. Stanback. She believes that buildings
'
ildings
should be built to last, be functional and adequate. She stated d that
the 66 million dollars represents cuts from the original figures for the
elementary and high school buildings. She cannot support
referendum for any less pp a bond
y than 66 million. She said if these schools are
not built, the educational benefits will be lost. Good schools are the
basis of good education. She urged the Board of County Commissioners
loners
to go forward with this bond referendum for at least 66 million and to
place it on the May ballot. She pledged to work as hard as she can to
assure its passage.
MADELINE MITCHELL, parent and teacher in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro
School System, stated that when she thinks of school capital needs for
the two school systems she p
y feels there is a big problem that can be a
big opportunity. She supports the 66 million dollar ro osal. The
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school system has more needs than this will cover and difficult
decisions have to be made. They opted for buildings over some of the
other identified needs. She feels more students will be here than
planned. The state projections are conservative. The trends 7
ro 'ected
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by the state are supported by written documentation. She stated that
Chapel Hill should receive more because they need the buildings. If and
when merger occurs, it will not be in the interest of the students to
have 2,000 students in trailers. She feels the citizens will support
this bond issue. The people realize the importance of education. She
is strongly in favor of this package and feels the citizens will support
this bond. She favors taking this to the voters in May.
NANCY SALMON from Chapel Hill emphasized the importance of building
a new high school. If the school gets too large, the students don't
know the other students. Two schools would provide additional
opportunities for many students. In smaller schools many of the
students can participate. In the long run she feels that all high
schools in Orange County should be similar in size. She endorses
building a second high school.
NICK DIDOW, a resident in the Chapel Hill School District and a
member of Citizens Advocating and Supporting Education (CASE) , spoke in
support of a May ballot. He feels that the funds should be allocated
based on anticipated need. He noted that the real school capital needs
total far more than the 66 million dollar bond package. A bond for too
little money will mean that another bond will be needed. This bond
would provide a moderately priced school package.
RICHARD GURLITZ, member of CASE, questioned the bond amount the
community would support stating that this County is growing. The
community has always placed a high demand on the educational system.
If money is there for a 66 million dollar bond, there will be money for
an 80 million dollar bond. The needs should be identified and the money
should be found to take care of these needs. He wants schools with lots
of programs. He stated that if the voters see a need, they will vote
for it; if the voters do not see a need, they will not vote for it. He
offered services of his volunteer group to educate the citizens about
the needs and the bond.
JOYCE TENNISON, Frank Porter Graham PTA representative, stated her
strong support for a 66 million dollar bond.
LEON is of the Culbreth PTA, stated that the cost of
school failure s more than the pain of a tax increase. Chapel Hill
schools are very good because of the p
Y g widespread support for them. With
all this support, they have no luxurious schools. Culbreth is already students over capacity. They can ha rdly meet the basic needs of their
schools. The PTA has provided $60,000 in funds to help the
school. Parents put in hundreds of p
p hours to accumulate these funds
because they are proud of their school. They see their school as
something that works. They believe their school is their most important
possession. He asked that the message be spread and asked that the
Board of County Commissioner do the right thing.
MAGGIE SLOAN of Chapel Hill stated she hates paying taxes but
supports a 66 million dollar package to be put before the voters in May.
CINDY CHEEK feels the increased tax is an investment in the future
and a small price to pay to be sure the children get a good education.
KATIE MCLAURIN, Chapel Hill School District, stated that the redis-
tricting done last year can only juggle the number of students for a
limited time. Sufficient infrastructure is needed. Also, the students
need an education that will prepare them for the 21st century. She
asked the Board to approve a bond referendum to allow the school system
to move forward with their educational plans.
DR. JOHN GRAHAM, representing TaxWatch, read a prepared statement
which is in the Permanent Agenda File in the Clerk's
g Office. In
summary, he expressed reservations about the size of the proposed bond,
the lack of evidence of hard planning, vagueness concerning the amount
of money needed and lack of evidence that the proposed construction is
linked to the curricular needs of the next decade. He mentioned several
innovations that could be considered instead of spending money on bricks
and mortar.
WILLIAM OPPOLD, member of TaxWatch, offered to help the schools
with their problems of overcrowding conditions. He stated that there
are other retired individuals who would be willing to help as
volunteers. (His entire letter is in the Permanent Agenda File)
GRAINGER BARRETT, spoke in support of a 66 million dollar bond
issue. He has three children in the school system. He stated that all
children in the County are equal and need this bond package. He will
pay those property taxes for children before he would get a new car.
The need is there. Doors cannot be closed to the children. Maybe year
round schools will come in the future but not now. This bond issue
should not be delayed. He challenged the Board of County Commissioners
to be active and vigorous leaders and be advocates of this bond
referendum. He asked that his friends in Orange County not fight
through the newspaper but meet each other and talk in a retreat and hash
it out and go forward. The main danger is that of delay. In the end
the product is what is important, not the bricks and mortar.
SUSANNE KEY, Chapel Hill School System, stated that the other
speakers have covered her thoughts. She represents the segment which
is supportive of the upper level �
pp of the 66 million dollar package. She
sees the need for the expansion now. The high school is at capacity and
the increase in enrollment will p y
mean things will not get better.
SHANNON PACE, copresident of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Federation
of Teachers, a member of the School Bond Committee and teacher at Estes
Hills stated that there is overcrowding and many
schools need roofs.Cha el Hill will grow by an average of 300 students
a year and Orange
County by an average of 140 students a year. She stated that many have no classrooms. She y
encouraged the Board of County
Commissioners to support a bond to educate the students into the 21st
century. The Federation supports the bond and will work for its
passage.
SARAH STEWART, reading resource teacher in the Chapel Hill Schools
since 1978, stated she has only had adequate work year.
one space for
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The schools have problems including inadequate space for teachers, roofs
that need repair, etc. She urged the Board of County Commissioners to
put the 66 million dollar bond before the people in May and begin the
process to build new schools. She does not want to educate children in
a trailer park or have a high school with 2200 students. She feels this
is an opportunity to provide space designed to meet the needs of
educating the students. She asked the Board of County Commissioners to
support education.
EILEEN MILLER, Principal of Estes Hills School, spoke on behalf of
the parents and students. She stated that this projected growth
indicates that three new schools are needed and should be placed where
they are needed. Estes Hill's capacity is 500. Their current
enrollment is 537. The schools in Chapel Hill are bursting at their
seams. Their schools are antiquated with small classrooms. They lack
space for creative movement. They have no space for a school nurse.
They have inadequate lighting. Based on projections, it is anticipated
that they will need one additional teacher but have no place for this
teacher. Their current classroom space does not have updated computer
equipment. The Estes Hill's community asked that the Board of County
Commissioners consider a 66 million dollar bond package.
TED PARRISH, Chapel Hill-Carrboro Board member, shared some
assumptions. He stated that children are the County's greatest
resource; the County values education and wants to maintain their
educational edge. Because most of the taxpayers place a high priority
on education, he feels the bond issue will pass. He believes the 66
million dollar bond will help the two districts meet their educational
needs. Children deserve better and more must be done. He feels they
should address merger. A new high school is needed by Chapel Hill-
Carrboro. He asked that the Board of County Commissioners keep children
as their main focus.
RUTH ROYSTER, Chapel Hill-Carrboro School Board member, noted she
was surprised by the number of classrooms in mobile trailers. Already
classrooms designated for music, science and art are becoming regular
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classrooms. She sees more mobile trailers in the future unless there
is a bond referendum. For almost twenty years there have been no
new
schools built in Chapel Hill. She made reference to the rowth of 300
students a year. The high school g
y g chool is serving more than 1600 students.
The cafeteria is crowded and there is not adequate space for the school
buses. She feels it P
is necessary to build new schools to meet the
educational needs of the children for several decades. They need
science labs, space for the teachers, etc. y
*P tc. She stated she does not look
forward to higher taxes. However, she feels that there is a
responsibility to house and educate children. She asked that the Board
of County Commissioners get behind a bond referendum and pass it.
CAROL CANTRELL, music teacher at Carrboro Elementary, stated that
they have moved students with redistricting and still only have one
vacant classroom. Never in 38 years have the schools ever measured up
to the needs demanded of them. She spoke of many needs and emphasized
that these needs are real. She made reference to Money Magazine and an
editorial on how to save the schools. She believes that the citizens
will support a bond referendum.
CHARLES FOSKEY, former member of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro School
Board, read a prepared statement which is in the Permanent Agenda File
in the Clerk's Office. In summary, he supports the bond referendum.
He asked that the Board of County Commissioners go for the May
referendum date. He emphasized that equality of facilities must be the
goal, not equality of construction spending. He believes the
projections are real and the students are coming. Not facing up to the
problem now will force Chapel Hill-Carrboro and probably Orange County
as well, to spend heavily on expensive mobile classrooms which do not
provide satisfactory classroom space during their relatively short life
span. He stated that the modest tax increase required by this proposed
bond is a much needed investment in the County's future and is mandatory
if the schools are to continue the momentum for progressive education
which the county has achieved in recent years.
RAY SINGER, Orange County School Board Member, made several
specific points. She is in favor of a school construction bond to
support both systems in Orange County. She feels that in these current
economic times that 66 million dollars is too high. She will not work
for or support a bond issue that is not fair. This bond issue will not
address the projected needs of Orange County Schools. The Board of
County Commissioners has supported equity funding and although everyone
supports some form of equity funding, Chapel Hill-Carrboro has indicated
they are not for it if it decreases their funding. The money is not
different because each penny that comes from a citizen for a bond is a
penny that is not available for equal funding. She explained that even
though Chapel Hill has two-thirds of the tax base, that most of those
living in the Orange County system add significantly to the tax base in
Chapel Hill. She questioned the definition of need. She feels there
should be adequate facilities but that there must be money to support
the teachers and programs.
R.D. SMITH, former teacher/administrator in the Chapel Hill-
Carrboro School System, noted that last year taxes increased two cents.
He asked that the bond not be based on the cost of his house. The issue
deals with one aspect of the Board of County Commissioners'
responsibility, namely, the schools. He asked that the Board of Count
Commissioners be fair to the citizens by letting them know what the tax
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increase will be to provide other services for the citizens of Orange
County. He asked that they look at g
y the fact that IBM and others are
laying off people and some are citizens who live in Chapel Hill and who
pay taxes. These families will be having children and they will be
leaving. Chapel Hill High School opened in 1967. The students left for
lunch then dust like they do now so it is nothing new. He asked what
effect the special tax will play when the bond comes into play.
DICK CLIFFORD stated that Orange County is experiencing substantial
growth in student population and it is a challenge for the Board of
County Commissioners to meet these needs. Some efforts have been made
for better student projections and the estimates are less than the
actual figures. Orange County demands a lot from their schools. In
general, voters have been more than generous to pay for education. The
schools are very well maintained. The teachers make maximum use of the
space that is provided. The high school facilities are used to the
maximum. The media centers are much better than most in North Carolina.
Smaller schools have advantages over larger schools. He urged the Board
of County Commissioners to have a bond that is large enough to address
the needs. The high school population needs to be decreased and a new
building constructed. They also need an elementary and middle school.
It appears unanimous that people support the schools and are willing to
pay for them.
WESLEY WALLACE stated that the schools are facing an increased
student population. He wants the Board of County Commissioners to ut
it on the ballot for May at the highest possible level. He promises
that if this money goes for education, those at Carol Woods will help
pass the bond.
EARL DAVIS,, Chairman of the Orange County Tax Union, feels that
good things have been brought out on both sides of the issue. He sends
his children to school to learn. The Tax Union is very concerned about
government spending. It affects the working class of people. A lot of
people do not have high income. Their concern is that everyone is
pushing for a May election and he questions why it needs to be rushed.
He suggested giving people an opportunity to read and understand the
issue. His main concern is that property taxes keep increasing. He is
concerned about the three is and feels there is a need for basic
education. He is not opposed but is concerned about the separation of
Chapel Hill and Orange County. It is time for good responsible leader-
ship. It is important that everyone work for the people and the
children. He asked that the Board of County Commissioners look at other
alternatives to a bond referendum. Let the citizens pay a little more
and let it accumulate slowly. The year 1992 is a revaluation year and
taxes will go up. It would be good to hold things steady. Schools are
not an option. Maybe money needs to be set aside yearly. He is asking
people in the County to lower costs and administrators to cut programs.
NEIL PEDERSEN read a prepared statement which is in the Permanent
Agenda File in the Clerk's Office. In summary he spoke about the
planning process which Chapel p
g p hapel Hill-Carrboro used to formulate its
capital needs request, cost and space estimates, and impact of different
rates of growth in the two p •
g school districts on funding equity. He stated
that although the School Capital Needs Advisory Committee had difficulty consensus, the one clear conclusion y
■ clusion was that the County needs
four new schools to meet the demands of the student g rowth which has
been projected by the state to occur from 1988-1999. The State's
projections indicate that 70% of the student increase which will occur
between 1988 and 1998 will be in the Chapel Hill-Carrboro district. He
urged the Board of County Commissioners to formulate a bond e acka
p g
which focuses on the critical needs and produces four schools designed
to meet the educational challenges faced by this community in the 21st
century.
MARTHA DRAKE stated that a school building takes 60 BTU a square
foot, a good school building 30 BTU and a great one 15 BTU. She
stressed that $274,000 can be saved each year on electricity costs. She
asked that the Board of County Commissioners consider these costs.
BETSY BARROW from Chapel Hill spoke about the planning process for
the new schools. When they added to the present schools, they realized
that this would not provide space for increased growth. An educational
specifications committee and the teachers designed the proposed schools.
The buildings are designed to be functional for at least 50 years.
There will be areas for preschoolers and senior citizens which will
create a partnership between the schools and the communities. Chapel
Hill needs three new schools and needs the support of the Board of
County Commissioners. They need to look for the best educational design
and support it. There is a need for actions to speak louder than words.
Chapel Hill citizens want the very best for education. She asked that
the Board of County Commissioners approve a minimum of 66 million for
a bond referendum.
ANN CRAMER asked how the schools can do better with less if they
want to increase their ability to compete. The bond issue is a subsidy
for maintaining education.
JUDY JONES of the Chapel Hill-Carrboro Association of Educators
stated she is uncomfortable because they only heard from a few people
in the Orange County School System. She is concerned that there may be
growth needs in Orange County before 1997 and feels these should be
addressed. It is not fair to decide student cost on present population.
She stated that there is major growth in the Chapel Hill/Carrboro city
schools. Currently the schools are overcrowded. They are not
overcrowded in Orange County. If there is a good job done with
education, she feels a bond issue will pass. Needs will increase if
they are not taken care of now. The issue is clear. The Chapel Hill
Teachers Association supports a bond issue in May. There is no choice.
DOCKEY DURHAM stated that she is a taxpayer, parent in the Chapel
Hill-Carrboro Schools, and a teacher. She spoke of the overcrowded
conditions in the schools. In order to deliver quality education, they
must have facilities. There are dedicated educators who are frustrated.
They must be creative, resourceful and willing to compromise. Children
are our future. She worked p •
ked on designing the new buildings. If the
needs of the children today and in the future are going to be met,
something must be changed. She wants the Board of County Commissioners
to help them et a bond referendum l •
g erendum passed at the upper limits.
EUGENE LAMMERS, current president of the Ephesus School PTA, spoke
on behalf of himself and those who p
ho moved to Chapel Hill to get an
education for their children. He emphasized that the overcrowdin g is
here and stated he supports a bond referendum.
BARBARA BURGER questioned the equity issue. She does not
understand why Orange County Schools will only get 25% of the bond
amount. She does not see how the voters will understand. She asked
that the Board of County Commissioners remember that Orange County
residents are struggling to make it on a daily basis. Everyday eo le
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wonder how they are going to pay the mortgage payment.
WILLIAM GARGAN feels that no one is going to argue about money or
the need for it. He referred to the 1986 school re merger report. The
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projected numbers for Orange County are wrong but the numbers for Chapel
Hill/Carrboro City Schools are correct. He stated that there is inequity
between the two systems and this bond issue is a continuation. The
decision needs to be based on what is right. He sees growth in northern
Orange County.
BONNIE YANKASKAS feels that the need for schools in Chapel Hill is
clear. A lot of people move to Chapel Hill because it has a great
school system. They need a new high school. Every student needs a
chance for a good education. She helped with designing the three new
schools. She wants the bond referendum to be large and held in May.
VICKIE BROWN lives in Efland and has two children in the Orange
County system. She and her husband support education for all students
but need to be convinced that the request for 66 million dollars is
fiscally reasonable and that what is requested is needed instead of
expected by the parents.
GEORGE GRIFFIN of Chapel Hill strongly supports a May bond
referendum for 66 million dollars. He is troubled about the two school
systems getting together and resolving the equity issue.
CHARLES STEWART, Principal of Culbreth Middle School, urged the
Board to support the bond referendum at the earliest possible date. It
is critical to the quality of education they can offer. He asked that
they build good facilities that will last 20 - 30 years.
MARVIN KOENIG, Principal of Chapel Hill High School, stated that
children at risk become more at risk in a large school. Chapel Hill
High has 1,670 students. Next year 13 or 14 teachers will be without
a classroom. He will vote yes for children and asked that it be done
in May.
BOB REEDER, Chapel Hill, spoke in support of the schools. He
stated that now is a good time to build a school because the interest
rates are low. This will also help the economy. If schools are not
built now, prisons will be built in 15 years. He asked that the Board
do it in May and do it for more than 66 million. He asked that every be brought up to specification. y
p p He supports 12 month schools.
GEORGE KINGMAN indicated he does not want to pay taxes but the cost
of education is one that needs to be confronted. Scrimping education
g on education
will mean more funds on social programs. He pled es as a retired person
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on a limited income that he will support the bond issue.
MIKE BROWN, Orange County Schools, feels the figures are what they
should be but asked if people can afford a bond referendum. He wants
the money spent wisely. There is disparity between the two systems.
They both have honest-to-goodness needs. The County does not have the
programs that are offered in Chapel Hill. The needs are there. He
wants both to get what they need. He doesn't know if May is the right
time. There are a lot of businesses cutting back. He would support 66
million. He asked if these figures are where they need to be. He
recognizes the need for facilities for the students but stated that the
real process takes place in the classroom between the student and the
teacher.
MARY BOBBITT-COOKE, member of the Orange County School Board,
stated that the dollar numbers are not based on numbers that are
realistic but exaggerated. There are counties that are building
excellent schools for much less money. The committee did not deal with
other creative ways than brick and mortar. Year round schools were not
considered as a more creative way. She questions if people can afford
this bond issue. The university is downsizing because of the state's
shortfall and there are layoffs in the Triangle Park area. She asked
if the 1990's will mirror the 1980 's as far as growth. She feels the
county taxpayers will ask these questions. She is concerned that the
Board of County Commissioners took out the technology package. The
districts recognize each others need. She will support a bond package
that will include technology and real figures for all students.
BILL DORSETT stated that he opposes this bond as proposed. He would
support doing this through sales taxes.
MAX KENNEDY stated that the bond package is in deep trouble in both
ends of the County. There are people out there who will not support
this bond package because there are a lot of people who are not
insulated against economic insecurity. He believes that any bond is
going to be in serious trouble. The people will be voting against
higher taxes and not against education. The referendum will stand a
better chance in May than November. The growth in northern Orange
County will not catch up with Chapel Hill because of the inadequate
supply of water.
ADJOURNMENT
With no further comments, the public hearing was closed. Chair
Carey adjourned the meeting at 11:03 p.m. The next regular meeting will
be held on December 17, 1991 at 7:30 p.m. in the OWASA Community Room,
Jones Ferry Road, Carrboro, North Carolina.
Moses Carey, Jr. , Chair
Beverly A. Blythe, Clerk
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